Mexico!!!!!!!!!! YAY they have finally sent so many people up here that I cant afford to go to work anymore!!!! YAYYYYYYYYY [img]smile.gif[/img] Congrats to Mexico and all of central america, you have won [img]smile.gif[/img]

Pauly, I assume you are being ironic. What are you talking about, dear?

You were self employed, right ? What's the story ?

I know you were having problems a while back with them undercutting your bids. Sorry to hear that. I didn't realize it was that bad. :(

Yep I'm done. They are building for under $2 a square foot now. That is not even enough to cover payroll. I worked for 3 weeks for free so far. \well not actually free its in the negative. I forgot to thank our politicitians from top to bottom and from both worthless parties for all the help they have been. A great big round of applause for them also, those campaign contributions really kick ass! [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color=skyblue>I am sorry, LoA. I understand the problem. Alas, immigration will do nothing for you. I have had one from their agency admit to the President of the temp. agency I used to work for that they are not concerned so much with anyone that may/may not be legal...rather those that break the law or are causing obvious trouble. Just taking our jobs from us is not a strong enough case for them to care...the rats.

Also, I just read where those from India are being shipped in to take the jobs from the computer geeks of America, since their VISA permits come with the company benefit of paying the outsiders the wages that they would normally make inside their home country...which is like $2/hr. or something crappy like that. Therefore, they take the jobs from the people that have degrees in PC engineering and all that stuff.

Too bad another country cannot afford to pay you to come build homes for them in thier country...but you can always try!</font>

So where does that leave you now ? I understand you can't compete with such prices, but isn't there something or someone who's there for you ? I mean you're not dealing with competition here, but with people who destroy the business for everyone.

Gather them together LOA and we can take control of IW finally. Bad pun - ok. :(

I can totally understand. My trade has battled with machines since the late 1800's. Ever taking the place of craftsmen all around by unequal ratios and saturation of new company's with tight budgets. Pre-fab components and internet access for outsourcing dominates every day of work. I haven't seen a white drywall man for 88 years.?

I would think at that price, that craftmanship and quality is non existant. Are they just going after new, or have they got their hands into the renovation market yet?

Got the same problem up here with the Vietnamese and fishing. I've got a few friends who fish, and they've taken up to packing firearms with them when they're on the boat. Just a couple of weeks ago, a buddy's boat was rammed by one of the Vietnamese fish boats, because they didn't want him fishing there. Got real nasty.

If it were me, I'd go down swinging (literally) I'd no doubt end up with an assault charge, but it'd be worth it. On the wages they're undoubtedly being paid, health care is out of the question. After a couple of weeks in a hospital, I would think the bill would be quite high. :D

Oh I'm so sorry Pauly :(

[ 08-20-2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

I'm not racist, I try not to think like that, but here in central America, it's rather.. well, insane. I live in an apartment complex and the family across the whole from me has quite literally doubled and you can't go into a restaurant or fast food place without seeing some working there.

They do not bother me as much, because the fact is I don't have a job yet, though I was going to work in inventory (machinery, stocking, etc) but then I blew out my knee. It's the fact... that they're nice people, but it really gets under my skin when they do things like, steal clothes out of other people's dryers.

(Had that happened once, came in the next day, layed down the clothes and ran like you wouldn't believe and I thought, what the hell?)

Had a couple of cases of illegal imigrants in Louisville, had an entire factory of them as a matter of fact working for bar none. It's slave trade is all it is, but with the way things are in Mexico, they can make a lot for making little to none over here.

[ 08-20-2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

Oh Pauly! :( I remember you saying it was getting tougher to find contracts and they were underbidding you. I just cannot understand why someone who wants work done, would hire people at that rate and NOT expect subpar work! Besides, no consolation to you, I'm sure, but me- I'd only hire legit workers if it were my job.

I sincerely hope something good comes up for you soon!

For the last week I have been fixing work done by our superb craftsman from farther south than the US for the great price of $15/hour per man. That includes me. Considering the lowest man on my payroll makes $14/hour I think we can see where things are going.


For quite a few years here if you spoke up against this publicly you were labeled "racist" for trying to defend your job. The people who thought that did not understand the extent of what is happening. Well they do now. All the nice computer jobs are being outsourced to India, China, Phillipines, etc. When you call customer support you arent calling in the US anymore. In my state of North Carolina the state food stamp program and several other things of that type are not even handles here. They are outsourced to....yes India. WTF is wrong with this greedy short-sighted country and our absolutlely useless ELECTED politicians. Oh yea its money, they make more nevermind. We dont count

I really am sorry to hear what's happened LoA, it effects all of us in some way.

I'm sorry if this does offend anybody, but it's not my intention. Make no mistake, I do love the USA but how the goverment is running it has been nothing short of poorly. Bush sends over the sons and daughters of so many here, takes a loan of $70 million dollars for more war equipment so he allows more people from other countries (Mexico, India, so forth) to work for dirt cheap to make up for the lost money. Like I said, it's a slave trade.

I can tell you that that crew of workers I supervise need babysitting bad. Money and low-bid contracts go together. Outsourcing and keeping key managers to direct them seems to be the current job movement of choice here so my son tells me.
From what I have experienced with brother contractors is that you should now talk to a few investors, bankers, and realitors about getting parcells of land and then building a nice place and putting it for sale. Thus splitting the difference with them and since you will co-ordinate all the work the beer will taste that much better upon recipe. Builders charge 90$-150$ square foot per house. Good luck LOA!

Cormack I would do that but the bankers want you to have the lot already before they will finance the spec house. If I could I would start one tomorrow and have it ready in 4 months

Really sry to hear that LoA.

I think its time every country starts cracking down and placing a limit on how many kids you can have (sry If i offend anyone). Seriously, its getting outta hand, there are lots and lots of people, and we are only getting bigger...

Sorry to hear that LoA.. :S

A real bummer.

I don't know enough to give you advice, but in situations like this in other branches they try to specialize. Is there such an oppurtunity for your business? To specialize and maybe market a better quality or higher craftmanship or something? Maybe offer something the others can't etc.. :S

I donnu. Seems liek a really really tough situation and I wish you the best of luck buddy!

sorry to hear that LOA. but with the globalization trend, I guess its kinda cheaper for them to look elsewhere :( . Philippines is one of them. Hey alot of filipino's work around 2 dollars a day in the Philippines. That is why making it just 5 dollars for them would be heaven to alot of people over there. I hate it when other people lose thier jobs though :( . just wish you luck and hope for the best.

LoA

Having a Steel Fabrication & Erection business - I know exactly what you are going through. My guys all thought that the "union" pay was this and they should be getting better than union pay (which when you add up benies, vacations, no dues, etc..we were paying way better). The union could only give them limited hours (for the older guys) and didn't give the same pay to the younger ones (no incentive). No company trucks came with the union LOL.

Hey - I gave up my paycheck so that the guys could get paid sometimes. But I found better suppliers and better terms and didn't become sole contractor. Had to lay people off and sell equipment. Work around the clock. But you know what? The reason those people come to the US is the same reason you and I went into business in the first place - opportunity. You can hire yourself out to another company as project manager! Or do what you like to do and QYB : [img]smile.gif[/img] Feel free to PM me if there is anything I can do to help.

I think one of the problems here (in LoA's case) is that the people taking away work from him and his crew are ILLEGALLY in the country and not actually entitled to work, but nobody cares or does anything about it so more keep coming and you run into a situation where illegal immigrants (many of whom have no intention of staying but are only here for the money) gets rewarded while citizens who should be able to find work and make a decent living, can't.

On the other hand, if you're doing work at higher rates to fix their mistakes, Pauly, you've got work out of their being here! LOL

And a couple of calls (annonymous, maybe) to IMmigration and Naturalization wouldn't hurt. We were constantly required to prove that our workers were legal.

Iknow whenever I call Dell Support it is always an Indian guy named "Micheal" (year right). Of course, I think it is interesting that when you call for Dell Sales you speak to an American. HHmmmmm.................

Indian as in native American, or as in someone from India ?

Sometimes it is hard to figure out whether your employees are legal or not, heck we have had several slide under that were using the same social security number. It all boils down to communication, something that is almost unheard of now a days, when office A of Corporation X finds out that employee a,c and g are the same they should contact offices A-Z and let them know but does it happen, NO. Richard Marks aka Duane Portige aka Juan Gonazalez goes away scott free collecting not only cash from the job but usually welfare also fo rhis 3 sons and 3 daughters who ar ein actuality his 2 brothers his wife, mother and grand mother. I have seen some shady stuff and I can but only laugh when they cry foul once they get discovered. Our system here is so easy to exploit and there is no real enforcement to it unless you are a native. Try getting foodstamps when you make 24 k a year and supporting a family of 3 when you own a house and have a car that is less then 5 years old !!! There are all kinds of incidents like what LoA is going through happening, and people just realize or care about it which is a shame. on a different note but along the same lines, last week there was a hispanic lawn crew that I see along the same stretch of road once a week, there is one caucasian who is usually the driver/supervisor, well these guy's seem to think that a car traveling a 50+ mph will be able to stop or avoid them when they walk out into traffic, so so far this year I have seen 3 fatilities :( and have even had a attempted conversations with some of them, cept the probelm is they do not speak english and I barely know any spanish so there in lies one of the major roots of the problem !! I feel your pain LoA my father was a general contractor for 40+ years he did everything form residential to industrial conmstruction. Always had a problem with the "help" and most times would fire several members of his various crews.

Well, I guess when the government has a national debt in the billions, they wouldn't hesitate to get the most work done at the least cost. I do say that looking ahead in time, my future doesn't look all that promising. Our economy is being overtaken by internationals, and now the SS program may collapse after the baby boomer era reaches their prime. Hope you guys had fun growing up in the 60s in 70s [img]tongue.gif[/img]

LoA, that really sucks, sorry man. I guess the Mexicans are trying to get out of their own $h!tty situation... Bloody governments; I have no faith in any of those malicious bastards.

I recently paid a carpenter/joiner $600 and a tiler $500 for a day's work each (+ $materials). They were among the higher quotes I got, but they worked very hard and very well all day until their jobs were done - and their work was immpecable. I wouldn't have wanted anything less. My point being, is there not still a section of the community who still value quality products and workmanship? I would never trust the building of my home to people who were so obviously cutting corners (in tools/materials or wages).

Obviously some are realising it after the fact, (hence the fixing up) but where are the honest and smart customers?

Well I have a new job. Not working for myself anymore, I am a superintendent for a construction firm. Looks like I will be in charge of all the framing crews for a 60,000 square foot condo project. I better brush up on my spanish ;) Pay is less but I get benefits+generous vehicle allowance that pretty much makes my truck payment. Independence is gone oh well

Sorry to hear your woes LoA. Erm... I mean Lo siento por las problemas de tuyo.

One problem with free trade is that it ignores externalities. Production costs more in wealthy nations because wealthy nations demand higher quality from the company -- not just in products, but in externality concerns -- 2 common ones are environmental protection and worker's wages. In most any industry, knocking down the trade wall between a rich/poor country pair, such as the US/Mexico only leads to increased poverty in the rich nation. On paper, it may all look good, because the fat cats on top are making more money and the companies like Ford get richer. On the laborer level, however, the company is forced to trade for cheap labor south of the border or lose out to Mexican companies -- cheap labor is a competitive advantage they have, as is the advantage of lower environmental protection regulations to comply with.

In short, it creates a race to the bottom.

This is why free trade will only kill rich naitons until some internation means of addressing externalities, such as the environment and labor, is created. The WTO is a useless tool of destruction without a WEO and a WLO.

All of which is exacerbated by illegal immigration. Were I you, I would spend a few hours calling up and ratting out every company that ever used illegal immigrants. I'd even do it to the company you're working for now -- so long as you can remain annonymous. ;)

[ 08-22-2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Hope things work out for you dude, it still sucks you can't be your own boss anymore though, but keep the faith.

Don't bother with the Spanish though, all you need to know is: Ola hombre, go fetch me a cold cerveza dammit. :D

Well I also need to learn-Your work sucks and your fired [img]smile.gif[/img]