I read two reports on CNN this morning concerning a proposed fat tax. One was in New York State, where a State representative is proposing a 1% tax on all video games, television, fast food and junk food. Here's the LINK.
The other article concerns a proposal by the British Medical Board to impose a 17.5% VAT tax to all fast food, junk food and those foods high in fat content. Here's the LINK to that.

My question is are you for a such a tax or against such a tax?

[ 06-19-2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

Why not just come up with an across the board tax increase of like .5% or something in all sales tax rather than on just certain items?????

It's just another case of government telling us we are too stupid to do what is good for us.

Well we are too stupid to do what is good for us. Given the latest studies show that 60 percent of Americans are overweight I would tend to agree with them [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color=orange>I voted that it wouldn't bother me to pay a little bit more, but at the same time I don't hink that it's any of the Government's business whether I'm fat (I am) or not. I do think the 17.5% VAT tax in Britain is extreme to the max! Especially, when I understand that the average British citizen is already paying something like 80% of his or her income in taxes anyway.</font>

By taxing something specific to change lifestyles is a form of oppression. it says 'peole are not allowed to be fat'. how is that fair? if someone chooses to be fat then they have the right to pay a fair price for food. also what about people who can only just afford fast food now? its just another broken freedom :(

[ 06-19-2003, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Zero Alpha ]

Who the hell is going to determine what is junk food? One of those pointy headed people on the tv who think they can live you life better than you? Your junk food may be my occasional treat. Don't give me that crap that it cost government more 'cause I'm fat. Who asked them to pay in the first place?

Well we are too stupid to do what is good for us. Given the latest studies show that 60 percent of Americans are overweight I would tend to agree with them [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]On the other hand, as a whole, people have never been prettier and sexier.

In general, the world is becoming easier to live in for the slightly-overweight folks that make up the majority of the 60% figure cited. Low-rise pants and other various new ways of designing clothes to actually mold to the persons figure are making it possible for the 10-20 pound overweight folks look much better than they did 15 years ago.

Extreme obesity is a problem, I do admit, but as a whole people are prettier.

Oh, and the tax. Why don't they just NOT pass another damned tax. :mad:

[ 06-19-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

That's interesting...my pop-up stopper won't let me vote.

No way is that the average tax rate! Only really high earners pay that much. Most of us pay around 25% in combined taxes and National Insurance.

VAT is already charged on food you eat in a restaurant, so I'm assuming these new proposals are for food purchased in stores to cook at home. Absolutely outrageous.

BTW - shouldn't the 2nd poll question have read 'The government can kiss my fat ass'??? :D

Hmm it would just be another addition to the "tax the smokers, drinkers and drivers i.e. almost everybody". What a load of bollocks! It's not gonna make much difference at all - people will still eat just as much crap! There are enough adverts and health-food knowledge out there for everyone to know what they SHOULD eat. If you choose to eat unhealthy food because you prefer it, it's your choice and you probably know what you are doing. Personally I eat quite a lot of crap, fast and junk food but I try and balance it out with a much higher than average level of excercise and so far it is working as I am not at all fat, but I am still young. I will probably have to change when I'm older.

I can appreciate the idea, but neither case presented in the links is logically sound. The first refers to obesity as the cause of videos, junk food, and commercials (read it; it's there); I suspect they really mean the contrary, that those things cause obesity.

And the second says that with the added VAT, companies will gain an incentive to use better quality foodstuffs. Sorry, but the VAT does not affect the companies; it affects the consumer. The added tax is passed on to the consumer, based on the price that is charged.

But where it really fell apart for me is when the bureaucrazies decided that they'd use this tax money to fund an institution for the treatment of obesity (or whatever they called it). Puh-lease! Take taxes away to create more government bureaucracy? I don't think so, Tim.

The idea of a fat tax is nice, but it assumes the world is simple and such a tax will have a beneficial effect. What it's really saying, though, is if you can't conrol your own life, you'll pay me to pretend to do something about it. And you should, because I'm better than you. I know all, see all...

Grrrrr..... deep breaths. Silly politicians. Cold Mountain Dew. Better...

Top rate of income tax is 40% for earnings over £35k.

I'm no specialist, but I think The Netherlands has a tax of 19% on all luxurious goods. Including games, cars, etc. Perhaps another Dutch member could verify this?

[ 06-20-2003, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

A fat tax.

Come on! It is just a name for another tax like all the other tax rates and stuff we pay.

Against, it just penalises the poor and generates more revenue for the government.
I think we should have a "Reality show Tax" that makers of such crap programs as "big brother", "pop idol", "I'm a celebrity" etc should have to pay before subjecting us to their mind numbing nonsense.

[ 06-20-2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Desdicado ]

How does the fat tax single out the poor, Desdicado??? I'm not a fan of the tax in the first place, but I fail to see how the lower income families are singled out?

" A levy on fatty foods would be widely perceived as a regressive tax because people on lower incomes tend to eat proportionally larger quantities of cheap, high-fat food"

It's more expensive to eat healthy foods.

It's more expensive to eat healthy foods????

Sorry, I don't buy that one.

<font color=orange>You don't go to the grocery much do you. So called health food and diet foods and foods that are grown organicly and no hormone added meat and non-radiated meat... etc... etc... ad nauseum cost about 20% more at the store than the regular high sugar/fat stuff does.

As far as the tax in other countries, you guys are just talking income tax. what about sales tax, and property tax, and VAT tax and so forth and so on. Don't you have to pay a tax to drive in the city of London? Will a tax is a tax is a tax. Donut and Epona, have you ever considered how much the average citizen pays when you add all that in? In the US, it takes a person almost a half a year to earn the money to pay all the taxes we pay.</font>

I agree that there are other forms of tax, but it's nowhere near 80% in total.
We have no sales tax, except for VAT and that's not payable on food.

BTW - you pay £5 to drive in the City of London, not the city of London! ;)

There is a huge difference.

Is it the BTW (dutch)that is 19% though I always thought that was for everything also for supermarkets, where not everything is luxurious, I might have had that in my economics class last year but forgot it cause I don't have it anymore. I believe that's the same as VAT (that stands for value added tax isn't it?)

edit: I'm against fat tax. If I decide to eat fat that's my problem/choice isn't it? Why would the government be controlling that. Fat food doesn't always make you fat it's just sort of the lifestyle with only eating junk food and watching TV all day (just some examples) that makes you fat, and if you decide to live like that it's your choice. I really like junkfood, and when I'm with friends I often eat it but I'm not fat and I sport like 4-5 times a week, cycle to school and have PE, why would I be paying extra money for something I'd like to eat.

[ 06-20-2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: philip ]

"You don't go to the grocery much do you. So called health food and diet foods and foods that are grown organicly and no hormone added meat and non-radiated meat... etc... etc... ad nauseum cost about 20% more at the store than the regular high sugar/fat stuff does."

Gee, Sir T, you DO know it IS possible to eat healthy WITHOUT resorting to specially grown foods, right????

I'm confused. What high sugar / fat content foods are you referring too???? Fresh foods don't in general have high sugar or fat content when compared to pre-packaged foods and are generally cheaper than junk food or specially grown foods/meats.

And I'd say it's almost fair enough too. Some of the traffic in the inner City is downright atrocious [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Is it the BTW (dutch)that is 19% though I always thought that was for everything also for supermarkets, where not everything is luxurious, I might have had that in my economics class last year but forgot it cause I don't have it anymore. I believe that's the same as VAT (that stands for value added tax isn't it?)

edit: I'm against fat tax. If I decide to eat fat that's my problem/choice isn't it? Why would the government be controlling that. Fat food doesn't always make you fat it's just sort of the lifestyle with only eating junk food and watching TV all day (just some examples) that makes you fat, and if you decide to live like that it's your choice. I really like junkfood, and when I'm with friends I often eat it but I'm not fat and I sport like 4-5 times a week, cycle to school and have PE, why would I be paying extra money for something I'd like to eat. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, you have certain 'primary' goods that are taxed.. 6%? Well, less then half of the taxes on the more luxurious goods(note; luxerious means just about every consumer good). Regarding this 'fat tax', our government uses the 'welzijnsbeginsel', meaning they can place extra taxes on unhealthy stuff such as sigarettes.

[ 06-20-2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

<font color=orange>I don't think most people buy and eat fresh foods anymore in the USA. Go to Krogers sometime and look at the size of the fresh produce area. In Knoxville, it's usually a fairly small department when compared to the vast aisles of canned and frozen foods. The beer aisle is bigger than the fresh produce section (not that it's a bad thing mind you :D )! Fresh foods are better for you, but most people probably feel that they take too much time to prepare, opting instead for the quick three minutes in the microwave that it takes to eat a "good" tasting Hungreyman Dinner. Also they really aren't that much cheaper. You can buy three cans of green beans for a dollar.

Me, I prefer fresh foods and when we have the time, that's what we fix. Nothing like a good salad with a baked potato and some pork loin or beef brisket from the smoker out on the deck! Lately though, it's been hotdogs, hamburger or a sandwich, cause we are in the middle of softball tournaments! </font>

Sir T,

NOW we are on the same page. [img]smile.gif[/img] I won't debate that in we live in a pre-packaged, fast is better, drive-thru culture where people are willing to sacrifice on their diet for the sake of speed / convenience. My point was that there is an option to the organic / genetic processed foods that IS healthy, and moderately inexpensive.

For what it's worth, I must be the ONLY person in the USA with electricity who does NOT have a microwave. *GASP*

Nothing wrong with a big aisle in the supermarket for beer either! [img]smile.gif[/img] Besides, a hot dog and beer isn't a bad lunch at a softball game. LOL

If you make that a tofu hot dog it will be much healthier! [img]smile.gif[/img]
They are actually pretty tasty if you find the right brand. Their is a great deal of differences between the several brands available.

Miss Epona Ma'am,
Some of us have backs with cracks :D But the government can kiss my back with a crack. Most of it is genetics, I wiegh the same as I did in college 20 years ago with No weight shift to the mid section. Eat like a horse, fast food, sweets, sit on my rear end and don't gain wieght. The only exercise I get is pushing the remote to change chanels. When I go to the doctor for a check up the doctor doesn't believe that I don't work out and watch what I eat.

Solutions:

All the rich Brits should move to America, where G.W.'s new tax plan will treat them better than royalty.

All the poor Americans should move to Europe, where they'd be treated like humans by the state.

All the fat Americans should STOP DRIVING THAT 10 METERS TO THE CORNER SHOP. Nobody walks anymore in America and that's a big factor (pun intended) in the national obesity issue.

Governments shouldn't tax fatty foods. What's the point? If you eat one less hamburger a week, but still sit on your couch day and night, you ain't gonna get any skinnier.