Ironworks Gaming Forum

Ironworks Gaming Forum (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28)
-   -   What to do with the Money from the Tax cuts. (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86364)

MagiK 06-02-2003 02:11 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Last week (on Friday) I blew my cool (whats new) at some of the things a self described financial planner said, and I shouldn't have. But what blew my cool was that this professional couldn't come up with a good suggestion for what his clients should do with the money saved from the tax cuts..so....here I offer my humble non expert suggestions at what you might do with the money that the government will not confiscate from you due to the cuts. (Im sure if I did this stuff for a living I would have even more suggestions)

Average family of 4 supposed to see $1200-$1600 in reduced federal income taxes (if you combine the previous cut and this cut. I will base the figure on the lower of these two, $1200 this gives us a nice even $100 a month to play with.

IF you invest your $100 a month into an investment vehicle that will average over the long run a 10% interest rate for you. (not exceedingly hard to do) this is what you can expect to see.

100mo at 10% for 5 years = $7,743.70
100mo at 10% for 10 years = $20,484.49
100mo at 10% for 20 years = $75,936.88
100mo at 10% for 30 years = $226,048.79

As you can see consistancey is required so you don't want to see congress take this money back away from you. A great idea is to put this into a 401k or a 403b plan, lacking that an IRA with a whole market mutual fund will do.

If you are a concerned parent you can also take this money and put it into CD's each year untill you have amassed $5,000 and then invest that into a

RIC-E Trust Account

for your child...this investment of $5,000 will net you kid some $2.4million after 65 years.....with $2.4 million in his retirement account, imagine how much more relaxed your child can be during his life...wish my folks had thought of this...but then they didn't have RIC-E trusts back then either.

Or of course, you can believe the guy in the other thread who told you that there was nothng you could do with the money you will get from the tax cut but I wouldn't.

Now for paragraph 2 of this,
I had originally planned on countering some claims with threads from the net about the positive impacts of the newest Bush tax cuts....and I found many many articles on these benefits. What I found out however is that if I altered my search parameters a bit, I found that there are two nearly evenly divided camps, 1. is the rabbid anti-bush dem. person who slams the cuts for every reason under the sun and
2. is the apparently repugnican accountant who tends to overlook some very real issues.....

My conclusion is that you can't trust either side and should be skeptical and conservative..the prudent thing to do in this case is to save what you can when you ca....perhaps following the strategies I laid out above or some that are even better that I haven't thought of.

In the end all I can actually tell you is, be conservative with your money, don't listen to anyone who tells you there is nothing you can do and realize, there are no get rich quick schemes. If it looks too good to be true, it most likely is.</font>

[ 06-02-2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Bungleau 06-02-2003 02:22 PM

Only thing I'd add... before investing, check your bills. IF you have outstanding debts, pay them off as much as possible. You will earn far more by not having debt (and not paying monthly finance charges, which are around 12 to 24% annually) than by investing.

Note I'm not saying don't invest; I believe that you should. But investing at 10% when you could pay off debt that costs you 20% is still backwards, just slower. If you have no debt, then invest... happily... :D

harleyquinn 06-02-2003 02:28 PM

Magik,
Nice post. I like your point about investing the money. I'm already planning to up my contribution to my 401K to match the amount of extra money from the tax cut.
Just to add to what you said, it's always a good idea to get information about how/where to invest money from as many as sources as possible (at least 3). Just like Magik found that by looking around more, there was different views and by incorporating them all, got a better view of the overall pic, the same applies to deciding how/where to invest.
For example, I was following what the 401K advisor was telling me to invest in and was making -3.24% each month (if it wasn't for the employer match, I'd have been losing money). By doing some investigating on my own and redistributing where I was invested, I'm not making +6.45% per month.

ps -- that second paragraph wasn't aimed at you, Magik, was a general service annoucement for the public. :D

MagiK 06-02-2003 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bungleau:
Only thing I'd add... before investing, check your bills. IF you have outstanding debts, pay them off as much as possible. You will earn far more by not having debt (and not paying monthly finance charges, which are around 12 to 24% annually) than by investing.

Note I'm not saying don't invest; I believe that you should. But investing at 10% when you could pay off debt that costs you 20% is still backwards, just slower. If you have no debt, then invest... happily... :D

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
See I knew there were much smarter money people out there than me [img]smile.gif[/img] but errr... yeah I wasn't thinking along the lines of debt .....those should obviously be paid off first since their rate of interest will be hard to beat.</font>

[ 06-02-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

MagiK 06-02-2003 02:37 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
No probs Harley, I was quite sincere about not being a professional [img]smile.gif[/img] I know I do not know everything about investing and money, but I do know, never listen to anyone who tells you, theres nothing you can do with little bits of money...it all adds up.

I also know that over the long run (10 - 30 years), you will probably not find it hard to find a mutual fund that can net an average of 10%..or you can take a more hands on approach like you did....the key is dollar cost averaging...ie...putting money in over a long period.</font>

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 02:52 PM

I'm in the group struggling to pay off debt before I up my monthly 401k investment. Too bad so sad. :(

But, the example I want to make is the converse of Bungleau's. I have one student loan at 1% interest, received for being an "appalaicha student." I pay this off as slowly as possible. Since 1% is usually less than the inflation rate, this loan actually shrinks every year in terms of real debt value.

I also have student loans at 6-7%. Those I pay off timely, but if I have a chance to pay extra I usually put it toward 10%-18% credit card debts instead. Again, the message is the same: hit the highest number debts first.

Now, MagiK figured 10% into his table. I want to point out that 10% is extremely aggressive and risky in today's market, what with the Fed T-bill rate at an all-time low. On the save side I would base my math on 7%, no more. The days of 10% mutual funds being everywhere are gone, at least for now. Some still exist, I assume Janus is likely still doing well. But, to eek out 10%, you need to be doing your own day-trading or simply have a lot of money to invest and/or a long time committment. The incentive is still there to invest, of course, I'm just saying today's market is a bit of a different reality.

Final message, also a result of the same theorem: Get your money out of a savings account. I don't even have a savings account these days. Less that 1.8% is worthless. I have a 1% sweep-style checking account and the rest goes in mutual funds and money markets. Except for the "emergency fund" you have in your savings, put your money in a smarter place. Plus, in the modern day, the "savings emergency fund" many of us remember our parents keeping for broken appliances, etc, is just as well taken care of by having an extra $5K or so available on any one of your credit cards in case of emergency.

[ 06-02-2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

MagiK 06-02-2003 03:02 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
T.L. If you talk short term yeah 10% is tough to see, however...did I not specify over a 10-20-30 year period? 10% over that time period is NOT all that aggressive or risky..at least not historicly [img]smile.gif[/img] however as they say in the money biz..."Past performance does not gaurentee future returns" or whatever.

Another note on credit cards....once you pay a card off, call them and tell them you want a better rate or you wish to cancel the card...I have one (1 out of 3) that is at 8.9% annual interest rate with no annual fee...the banks are pretty good about offering good fixed rates if you are in a position to take your business elsewhere. This gives you options of doing balance transfers from other higher rated cards.
</font>

[ 06-02-2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 03:10 PM

Further note: When the card company calls up wanting you to transfer debt to that new temporary cheaper rate, make sure to inquire about the transfer fee -- and then ask them to waive it. If they won't waive the typically $50/3% transfer fee, just don't accept the offer unless you must. I've been keeping my debt down by playing the transfer game while I pay off the cards. I just transferred $2K from a 10% card to a 1.9% temporary spot this weekend, and I'll pay it off by the time November rolls around.

MagiK 06-02-2003 03:15 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Wish I wasn't so lazy and had the patience to do the transfer rate switcherooo but hopefully in the near future Ill be in a position to get a reletively low rate loan and get rid of some pesky debts that have been doggin me since my divorce [img]smile.gif[/img] ...of course...any money saved will immediatly be going back into our house....but hey...I spend a lot of time in the house ;)
</font>

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 03:25 PM

A man's home is his castle. Except when the significant other is around. ;) Of course, this is what drives most of us to be happy and content if we can just find one little throne room to claim as our own. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

pritchke 06-02-2003 03:43 PM

I would pay of debt or save.

Although I would say that this is not the idea behind the tax cuts. The idea is to spend, buy stuff you don't need. By spending it may increase the economy and make good old W look good. I would put mine to pay off the last of my student loans. One month left and I will be done. If I paid of my loans at the rate given I would have paid over $100,000 but I have been paying them off ASAP, one month I put down $10,000 but I have mostly been putting $1000/mth. The only problem I have had to sacrifice the purchase of a house and car but I think the overall benefit is greater (and these things are more wants than needs). I have probably saved more than $40,000 by getting rid of it ASAP. I didn't do the swicth thing mainly because you have to really watch what is going on (may increase interest at a later time and not phone to tell you.)

Enjoy your tax cuts guys!!!

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 03:47 PM

It is interesting that the cuts were enacted so we'd spend, and we're all here trying to figure out how to save. ;) Because the only people likely to *spend* the tax cut (if you don't count paying bills -- i.e. consumer spending only) are those who are too poor to do otherwise, the impact on the economy is likely to be very minor. IMO.

Bungleau 06-02-2003 03:50 PM

TL, over the course of time, stock returns have averaged 10% over every ten year period since the 1920s, no matter how you slice 'em. 10% is a reasonable long-term rate. It is not reasonable for short term, especially today.

There are two schools of thought for paying off debt: One goes by ascending loan amounts, and the other goes by descending interest rates.

Personally, I belong to the descending interest rate club. Pay off the highest rate first, and work your way down. That 1% student loan? It would be out there for a long time in my book... :D

I do have one exception, and that ties into the logic behind the ascending loan ammount approach. See, every time you pay something off, you get a psychological boost. So pay off the smallest debt first, get the boost, and then add that money (what you were paying) to the payment for the next smallest. Dave Ramsey refers to it as a debt snowball, and as you keep going, it keeps getting bigger and bigger, taking out debt in larger and larger chunks.

My exception is that if I have a debt close to being paid off, I will pay it off, even if it's not next on the list. I'll take the short-term ego-stroking of knocking another one off.

Apparently, many people can't handle the apparently slow turnaround for the descending rate club, and they tend to give up before they hammer it out. For those folks, the ascending amount club is better.

As for keeping your emergency fund on a 5k credit card limit, my only concern would be that when you need it, you may not be in a good position to take on another 5k of debt. I believe it's easier to have the money sitting around and draw on it (and then replenish it) when needed.

Whew! Weighty stuff, but important, in a lot of ways. Neither of my parents is comfortably set for retirement, and I really want to be... long before I get to retirement, too.

MagiK 06-02-2003 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchke:
I would pay of debt or save.

Although I would say that this is not the idea behind the tax cuts. The idea is to spend, buy stuff you don't need. By spending it may increase the economy and make good old W look good. I would put mine to pay off the last of my student loans. One month left and I will be done. If I paid of my loans at the rate given I would have paid over $100,000 but I have been paying them off ASAP, one month I put down $10,000 but I have mostly been putting $1000/mth. The only problem I have had to sacrifice the purchase of a house and car but I think the overall benefit is greater (and these things are more wants than needs). I have probably saved more than $40,000 by getting rid of it ASAP. I didn't do the swicth thing mainly because you have to really watch what is going on (may increase interest at a later time and not phone to tell you.)

Enjoy your tax cuts guys!!!

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Pritchke, investing your money also stimulates the economy. You don't have to blow the cash to kick things up. The companies you invest in, can use the capital to expand their businesses.</font>

MagiK 06-02-2003 04:17 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Bungleau [img]smile.gif[/img] I have been trying to convince Mysticelt about why I am paying my Car off ASAP...I can do that in a couple of months then turn that cash toward my higher interest rate credit card.....she keeps telling me to do the card first [img]smile.gif[/img] But I can free up roughly $400 a month on the car in a couple of months then put that toward the higher rate card and make much more visible headway ....yeah over the long haul Ill probably blow a couple hundred in interest payments...but I like that short term gain [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

MagiK 06-02-2003 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
It is interesting that the cuts were enacted so we'd spend, and we're all here trying to figure out how to save. ;) Because the only people likely to *spend* the tax cut (if you don't count paying bills -- i.e. consumer spending only) are those who are too poor to do otherwise, the impact on the economy is likely to be very minor. IMO.
<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
But we are all talking about investing in the market in some manner, not just sticking the cash in a mattress somewhere...(did anyone ever really do that?)
So we are giving companies a jolt..and this jolt can..and hopefully will get the supply side going....making jobs and encouraging people to spend....

We shall see [img]smile.gif[/img]

As for cash reserves, I think having a couple of months survival funds in the bank (ie low interest rate savings account or possibly a money market fund) is a good idea...the trick is to be disciplined enough to leave it there and not mess with it [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

MagiK 06-02-2003 04:25 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Here's a question...My company allows us to hold up to 400 hours of vacation PTO time...I try to keep a 160 hour minimum reserve of hours for emergencies and in case I should be the victim of downsizing...I figure this is a decent "savings vehicle" since it allows flexibility for illness and minor catastrophes and as long as I don't use it..the value of the time goes up, since I am lucky to receive annual pay raises..so the hours would be paid out at my current level of income and not the level at which they were earned..Anyway, question is...your opinions on the strategy?</font>

[ 06-02-2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
But we are all talking about investing in the market in some manner, not just sticking the cash in a mattress somewhere...(did anyone ever really do that?)
So we are giving companies a jolt..and this jolt can..and hopefully will get the supply side going....making jobs and encouraging people to spend....

The problem isn't with the supply side, MagiK. We have merchandise sitting on the shelf aplenty. The problem is with the demand side. Oh well, I hope I am wrong.

Your savings vehicle seems smart, btw. I'd use it, except I am at my first job ever where there is NO VACATION WHATSOEVER. :(

Bungleau 06-02-2003 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Bungleau [img]smile.gif[/img] I have been trying to convince Mysticelt about why I am paying my Car off ASAP...I can do that in a couple of months then turn that cash toward my higher interest rate credit card.....she keeps telling me to do the card first [img]smile.gif[/img] But I can free up roughly $400 a month on the car in a couple of months then put that toward the higher rate card and make much more visible headway ....yeah over the long haul Ill probably blow a couple hundred in interest payments...but I like that short term gain [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

Beat her with math, MagiK [img]smile.gif[/img] (did I say that? naw, must be someone else...)

If you can pay the car off in two months, you're talking about two months worth of interest on the debt it would have paid. Hmmmm... I'm not sure what that means. Let's try an example.

Say the car has an $800 balance at 6%. Say you've got a credit card with $4000 balance at 18%.

If you pay the car off last, you will pay less interest. That's just mathematics; it costs less. If you pay the car off first, you'll pay more in interest; but how much?

Assume $700 of the car balance could have gone to the credit card. You are then paying 18% interest on that $700, which is 1-1/2% per month. That's $10.50 in the first month and $5.25 in the second, for a total of $15.75.

But you're paying off the car earlier, which is saving the interest there. At 6%, that's 1/2% per month, which is $3.50 in the first month and $1.75 in the second month for a grand total of $5.25.

Net difference in interest is $10.50, which, compared to the debt size of $800, is not a whole lot.

I'd pay the car off quick to get the mental boost from it, especially if it's going to let you knock the other one(s) out more quickly. If you were talking about ten months, I'd go with Mysticelt and pay the higher rate off first.

If she still gives you grief, offer to give up something worth $10.50 over the next two months to get it paid off. [img]smile.gif[/img] That way, you're "paying" for the choice.

Note that the numbers above are examples, and real actuarials can poke holes in them. The logic behind it, however, is still sound and works just fine.

MagiK 06-02-2003 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Your savings vehicle seems smart, btw. I'd use it, except I am at my first job ever where there is NO VACATION WHATSOEVER. :(
<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Say what???? no vacation time? Jeez they better pay you a lot cause your gonna burn out real quick like....not to mention you are bound to become sick at some point....no one is perfectly healthy all the time.....man that really blows...I get 8.03 hours accumulated every 2 weeks.</font>

MagiK 06-02-2003 05:15 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Thanks Bungleau!!! You made my head hurt [img]smile.gif[/img] Ok Math aside [img]smile.gif[/img] it made sense to me, and it made sense to Mysticelt [img]smile.gif[/img] thanks for the assist [img]smile.gif[/img] (and yeah the car is gonna be paid off before august barring any hiccups).
</font>

[ 06-02-2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Timber Loftis 06-02-2003 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Your savings vehicle seems smart, btw. I'd use it, except I am at my first job ever where there is NO VACATION WHATSOEVER. :(

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Say what???? no vacation time? Jeez they better pay you a lot cause your gonna burn out real quick like....not to mention you are bound to become sick at some point....no one is perfectly healthy all the time.....man that really blows...I get 8.03 hours accumulated every 2 weeks.</font>
</font>[/QUOTE]No *guaranteed* vacation alloted at my firm. So far, they seem to be cool about it if you need a day off here and there. I won't be taking a full week for a while though, probably, as a show of dedication -- probably 2 years before I seek to head back to my place in the Carribean for a week again. As long as we bill 2000+ hours/ yr though, they're pretty cool about it if you come in late, leave early, take a day off, or work at home. Boy, now I'm way OT. Sorry dudes and dudettes.

IronDragon 06-02-2003 11:21 PM

I just did some research and some math and found that this wonderful tax cut will mean that next year I will save a grand total of approximately $53.00.

You cannot imagine the spending spree I will be having with that fat wad of cash.

pritchke 06-02-2003 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IronDragon:
I just did some research and some math and found that this wonderful tax cut will mean that next year I will save a grand total of approximately $53.00.

You cannot imagine the spending spree I will be having with that fat wad of cash.

Enough for a new game. Maybe!! Or several if you buy old ones!!!

Azred 06-02-2003 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bungleau:
Note that the numbers above are examples, and real actuarials can poke holes in them.
<font color = lightgreen>You rang? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

No, the numbers in your example are fine, as is your logic. Given two loans of equal term, pay off the higher interest rate first. If you can pay off one loan quickly, do so, then apply those payments against the next loan to pay it off quickly. This is called "debt stacking", and will save you a great deal of money in the long run.

MagiK's mentioning dollar cost averaging is also important, because this is the best way to save for the future. I have a mathematical proof that, by using dollar cost averaging, the price of an investment can drop drastically (66% in my proof) but you can still realize an amazing return on your investment.

Or you could play the lottery...or take a vacation to Las Vegas. [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

MagiK 06-03-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IronDragon:
I just did some research and some math and found that this wonderful tax cut will mean that next year I will save a grand total of approximately $53.00.

You cannot imagine the spending spree I will be having with that fat wad of cash.

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
ID if you invested that whopping $53 every month for 30 years, you would be looking at over $100K. Bitch whine and moan all you want but if you don't make it work for you, it is your own fault...sorry :( </font>

Davros 06-03-2003 09:44 AM

I don't know how correct his maths are MagiK, but you would do well to re-read what the guy actually wrote. It looks to me that in your eagerness to slam him that you are slamming him on something that he didn't actually say.

Well either that, or you have a way of taking $53 "per year" (ah, plink, there is that penny [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and turning it into $100K in 30 years - if so, where do I get a piece of that action.

harleyquinn 06-03-2003 10:18 AM

Magik (or anyone else) do you have a website that has info about the new tax cuts so that I can figure out what my take is?

Donut 06-03-2003 10:35 AM

How to spend the money:

33% on booze
33% on women
and the rest I'd just waste!

You can't take it with you!

MagiK 06-03-2003 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Davros:
I don't know how correct his maths are MagiK, but you would do well to re-read what the guy actually wrote. It looks to me that in your eagerness to slam him that you are slamming him on something that he didn't actually say.

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
And you sir have, in your eagerness to slam me..have actually made a false assumption [img]smile.gif[/img] Nice try, but no ceeegar sir. I was not "eager to slam" as a matter of fact lets see.....I didn't even look at this thread untill I had been at work for several hours...(Edit: I wouldn't call more than 12 hour time difference an over eager response)</font>

Well either that, or you have a way of taking $53 "per year" (ah, plink, there is that penny [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and turning it into $100K in 30 years - if so, where do I get a piece of that action.

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
As for making assumptions...he never stated a time frame...since I am basing the whole thread on "The average family of 4" receiving roughly $100 a month in federal tax relief from both Bush tax cuts, it is entirely reasonable for me to assume a montly time frame.

Now since you seem unwilling to do the math, I will give you a link to a financial calculator and tell you that at $53 per month at 10% over 30 years (a typical full market mutual fund should perform nicely for this) will net you roughly $119,805.86....now go invest and have a nice life [img]smile.gif[/img]

Find a calculator here: http://www.bobbrinker.com/stcalc.asp

also note that if you want to invest just $5000 total for your kid/kids you can turn that $5000 into 2.4 million by the time they are 65 in a RIC-E Trust Fund.

Yeah I know, I sound like a Shill for Ric Edelman's favorite trust vehicle but hey, its a great idea and an easy way to ensure your children have a bit less anxiety about their futures than you may have about yours(or mine or who evers).

[ 06-03-2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

MagiK 06-03-2003 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by harleyquinn:
Magik (or anyone else) do you have a website that has info about the new tax cuts so that I can figure out what my take is?
<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Harley, I'll let you know once I figure mine out [img]smile.gif[/img] or find someplace with the actual numbers...I have just been basing my numbers off the publicly stated figures. Actually Im kind of interested in where I.D. got his $53 number.</font>

[ 06-03-2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Davros 06-03-2003 10:56 AM

But you keep overlooking what was said ole boy. A time frame was given, and I quote agin for your edification :

Quote:

this wonderful tax cut will mean that next year I will save a grand total of approximately $53.00.
Now that is what he said. Typo's and calculation errors are both possible, but you just ignored what was said (per year) to read what you want to read (per month). You went on to slam him about complaining of 53 dollars per month, when he was saying so what - 53 dollars per year.

A simple apology would have been enough - it was all that was required.

Timber Loftis 06-03-2003 12:47 PM

Don't blame MagiK. Mortimer needs new glasses, that's all. :D And a hearing aid. :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Night Stalker 06-03-2003 12:54 PM

His cane needs a new coat of varnish too. :D

[ 06-03-2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]

Sir Taliesin 06-03-2003 01:33 PM

<font color=orange>I'll be taking a vacation and possibly buy a new computer. We should be getting back somewhere in the neighborhood of $900 to $1200 dollars; assuming that what I've read is true. I'm still looking for that calculator too Harley! </font>

MagiK 06-03-2003 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Don't blame MagiK. Mortimer needs new glasses, that's all. :D And a hearing aid. :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
huh?</font>

MagiK 06-03-2003 01:51 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
According to the news this afternoon, the Dems are demanding that non-federal income tax payers (those who don't make enough to actually owe federal income)
be allowed to collect the $1000 per child tax credit for each child. Apparently this will mean that the Dem imposed 350billion limit will need to be breached and will open the door for even larger tax cuts for those who actually pay into the system.

Ok, Davros, if he ment he would receive ONLY $53 in all of the next year due to tax cuts, that means that A. He already doesnt pay taxes anyway, of B. He is in the top 1% and has an incredibly lousey accountant...if either of those should be true then yes I was wrong to tell him he should use that $53 to earn $119k. If A. is true, I hope he takes advantage of the opportunities in this country to move up from the bottom rung since he is obviously a guy with no children (since each child brings $1000 in tax relief per child which is way more than $53 if my math is correct.)

However <h3>YOU</h3> have yet to acknowledge that <h3>YOU</h3> made an assumption as to my motive and swiftness of my posting and were wrong. Ever heard the addage about the word ASS U ME?

And back on target..I am correct about the numbers $53 a month can net you >$100k. </font>

MagiK 06-03-2003 01:54 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
untll they come out with the 2003 tax guide, I'm not sure you can count on anythign except that the tax credit for each child going from $500 to $1000, so the average family of 4 should at least see a $1000 reduction in the amount of taxes they owe....this is completely aside from the benefits derived from the actual rate cuts in both Bush tax cuts (the one from last year and this new one)
</font>

Davros 06-03-2003 05:50 PM

Thank you - apology accepted (on his behalf of course).

MagiK 06-04-2003 03:04 PM

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Since people were asking for calculators and charts, I found
this.
and was able to figure out what I will be saving.</font>


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved