I just found out today that a friend of mine killed himself this weekend. 45 years old, attorney, his daughter is a sophomore in college in town and lives in my building. Apparently, he had boughts with depression before some years ago. He recently split up with his 27-yr-old Quebequa girlfriend -- though it seems to me this would not have been determinative to him. He had a band and they cut a demo CD, I have a copy at home -- pretty good. He was cynical and hated the legal profession, but still seemed to have joia de vivre (spelling?).

Anyway, sad news all around. :(

Damn, nothing in your description leads to any reason for suicide. :( It's funny you know, some people have perfectly good lives and still think about suicide. Personally I've never thought about suicide, but I often think I wouldn't care if something killed me, as long as it wasn't painful.

Terrible news, Timber :(

Pretty much my view. If it was painless, I could probably handle it. Only regret would be not saying a 'see ya on the other side' to my friends and family.

Sad news indeed. A friend of mine did the same thing last year for no apparent reason. She was 32 with two little girls under 6.

<font color="#f683ad">
Sorry for your loss TL. :( It would appear, that you just never know what is going on in someone elses head.</font>

Sorry Timber,

The worst part of depression is the way it isolates the rest of the world. Now his poor family and friends are going to be so traumatized forever. There are no good answers...hopefully his daughter will be okay.

sorry from me too...it is indeed strange how the human mind works. i also have a view as to not caring really about death if its painless. sometimes ive even pondered what the point in living really is, though ive never considered suicide.

Whats everyones problem with pain? I dont care if I die slow and painful or quick and painless.
It really sucks about your friend man, but I guess if we were meant to understand these things then there wouldnt be such a thing as suicide.
And I cant remember who said it but theres is no wrong or right reason to commit suicide, it is done because one cannot take it anymore, anything can push someone to this point.
Anyway, my thoughts are with his family,
J.W.K

I am awfully sorry to hear that, TL. I have some experience with that topic and know how much that can shock and rattle you.

<font color=deepskyblue>I am so sorry to hear about your friend, <font color=tan>Timber</font>. Please accept my deepest condolescences and extend them to his daughter and family as well. [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img]

<font color=orange>Donut</font> - I am deeply sorry to hear of your loss as well. If you mentioned it before, then I must have missed it. [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img]

I pray that both thier souls may find the peace that was missing from their lives.</font>

Sorry to make such a crass statement Cerek, in light of the circumstances, but I was taught people who commit suicide go to live in the... um... hotter place after they die.

I can do nothing but agree with MagiK here. My condolences, Timber. :(

Oh you're a hero aren't you? I think you'd change your mind if you were in torture.

Oh you're a hero aren't you? I think you'd change your mind if you were in torture. </font>[/QUOTE]This is definitely the wrong thread to start such a debate in.

[ 05-22-2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Horatio ]

Here's the link for the Chicago Tribune guestbook for my recently-departed friend: Mike.

TL, I am sorry, and I know it is hard enough losing a friend, but when they take their own lives it is harder to accept and understand, I have been in your shoes, when i was 17 my best friend killed himself, because his mother put him in a hospital where he was put on suicide watch, but the hospital ignored him and he hung himself with the sheet, I have often thouht about it, life is hard when you are depressed, and you have to put on a *face* for everyne to make them think you are ok, thebest indicators of sucide thoughts are often the least looked for, withdrawl for loved ones, seems to be too happy around others, always avoiding confrotatons, I have lived with a suicidal mother for my entire life, so I know what the *faces* are :( again I am trully sorry for your lose and hope his family and you are able to cope with this

Bummer news Timber. Sorry to hear that. :(

I am so sorry for your loss Timber. :(

I couldn't have said it better myself MagiK.

Sorry for your loss Timber.

I have had experience with that as well, one of my old classmates commited suiced some two years ago. What I´ve heard he got involved in crime and drugs after he graduated. It´s sad when these things happen but unfortunatly they do sometimes. I feel sorry for his daughter as a family members suicide can be very traumatic and cause feelings of guilt.
Hope things get better for her soon.

Oh you're a hero aren't you? I think you'd change your mind if you were in torture. </font>[/QUOTE]Always with the sarcasm arent you? I agree with Horatio, i'm not discussing this because frankly, you know nothing about me and it is also very disrespectful to the reasons this thread was made.
This is the last i'll say on the subject.

I'm so sorry Timber :(

That's terrible Timber. :(

Being shunned by his girlfriend probably wasn't the determining factor as you say. That maybe was for him the icing on the cake, it's a terrible thing for anyone, maybe just compounded his other issues. God love him.

Mate I'm so sorry.....

:(

PS. Donut, sorry to hear that mate. :(

[ 05-22-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

TL and Donut, my condolences to both of you. :(

Sorry for your loss Timber.

My first thought was depression (chemical imbalance). This can happen to any one and there does not even need to be a reason to be depressed. People who take medication to get better at times can even have relapses after being taken off their medication for depression. For the lucky ones there are usually signs like frequent odd behaviour in the person, or emotional outburst at times for no reasons. Than again many times there are no signs.

It is very sad.

[ 05-22-2003, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Thats bad news guys, Ive already set aside two drinks for them later

I'm sorry to hear that you lost a friend TL. *hug*.
There was nothing you or anyone else could have done to prevent it from happening. It is just a decision that some people choose to make. Nothing more, nothing less. You have a strong mind, I know that for certain just from the qaulity of your posts. You'll come through this alright. Wherever your friend is, whatever the circumstances were that surrounded his passing, take the lessons that his life and choices teach you and grow from them. Whatever our spiritual beliefs may be, we are all reuinited eventually. Nothing ever enters or leaves our world, it just relocates to a different space. Be happy for having known him as he was, and look foward to carrying his memory with you as your life moves onward.

Hey all, thanks for the very kind words. My wife wanted to discuss this last night, but I wasn't up for it -- it had been a long day. I'm thinking I might just print this out and take it to her.

For those of you who have never known suicide... erm... I guess they'r called "victims," you are lucky. At least 4 friends/acquaintances I've known have taken their lives. :(

That's awful Timber, I'm so sorry! :(
It's so hard to understand when someone has taken his or her life. One moment they're there, the next the have done it and you are left powerless.
Probably the one person who I would least expect to kill himself, my uncle, committed suicide - it's like MagiK said, you're left behind wondering what went on in his mind - and realise you just don't know.

I'm wishing you all the best for the coming time... hang in there! *hugs*

[ 05-23-2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

now that sucks... you having 4 friends/ acquaintances... taking their lives...

i am not sorry for them. i am sorry for the people they left behind.. i feel pain for those left behind... i feel nothing for those who have taken their lives... sorry, but the pain to the people they have left behind... wow... is just more than his or hers IMHO...

Sorry for your lost...the one's that commit suicide should atleast think on thier family before they do it. How sad they will be and how much they are gonna miss the person. If your being loved by someone don't just screw it up like that...

Is suicide brave, cowardly, or neither? I've chewed on this one off and on for about 15 years.

TL, I'm sorry for your loss. *Hugs*. As for suicide, I personally think it's neither. Some may say it's cowardly, but I think if you really are that upset, then it's brave. NB-I have tried to kill myself before. I can name two other people on this forum that have too, and they are the bravest people I know.

Timber, I'm so sorry! Suicide has got to be one of the hardest things the survivors can try and understand. :( I know it's hard to talk about it, but it may help you (and your wife) to cope with the loss and make whatever sense you can of it.

I can't really say what those who chose suicide are thinking....I know that for some it's the end of painful life experiences that they just don't see any way out of and somehow they don't get the help they need.

It's very sad, no matter what the reason. :(

It is neither. Usually these people commit suicide because they are ill. A doctor told me that depression and mental illness is almost the same as any other disease and it can be corrected. It usually occurs as a result of a chemical imbalance in their brain. It is usually more difficult because the person, does not know anything is wrong with them so seeking help does not occur to them. The people in their lives do not know they have something wrong with them they just think they are sad. The majority of people think they just have emotional problems. It is no ones fault and you shouldn't always blame the person because they are usually not in their correct state of mind. I know because my Dad had a bout of depression and became a danger to himself and his family. You could tell he was not himself but we managed to get help for him and now he is back to his old self. He has to stay on his medication but as long as he does he will be fine. We were lucky we got help before he harmed himself, he was so sad all the time for no apparent reason. We need to become more informed about mental illness and depression before it happens to one of our loved ones. It is typical of people to just ignore it in our society, and it is esay to just blame the person who killed himself because it allows us to ignore the real problem of mental illness. They think that people who become depressed and are chemically imbalanced are insane people who are locked up with straight jackets. That is not true and it can happen to each and every one of us no matter how happy we are with our lives.

[ 05-23-2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Perhaps it depends on the circumstances? - certainly the soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save his companions must be called brave; but then would you really call that a true "suicide"?...

The most cowardly suicide seems to be where one does it to deliberately torment those who find him dead... this is basically why I haven't killed myself, even though I have been tired of life for almost 20 years - I think it unfair to make others feel bad on my account, and as all these posts have shown, others DO feel bad when a suicide takes place...

But many suicides seem to be "neither" - as has been said, more of an illness. Rather hard to call an illness brave or cowardly. Still, calling it an illness sure doesn't make the news any easier to swallow... and you've had FOUR to deal with, T.L.? Sorry indeed to hear that.

I don't know if you noticed, but i recently had to go through the same kind of situation. I feel your pain Tl.

I would rather call that a personal sacrifice than suicide.

Sorry for your loss, and hope that all heal rapidly, and well. May you find some peace.

so from what i am seeing here suicide can be of two things: one being chosen with your full cosciousness, and the other something you cannot refuse?

from my personal standpoint, i think it's cowardly, but with some people explanations here, it has become neither. i still don't think commiting suicide is something to be proud of... maybe that's it for me...

either way, it is a very painful thing to experience, to both the one who's going to commit it to every other human being he/she is going to leave behind...