http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003May12.html
Holy cow!!! It is politics time in Texas. I can't believe the majority party would be so darn arrogant to try to re-draw voting districs in their favor and when they are totally shut down and out, they send the police to arrest elected representatives. Were they gonna force them to vote at gunpoint?

I don't know. Bipartisan is not the way I would have described the situation in the mid '80s when I was a Texas resident. Democrats gerrymandered every chance they got, and even tried to ramrod it through a couple times when they were not supposed to. Texas politics are... different...

IIRC, when a few of the more cantankerous Repubs got uppity about it, their seats were declared abandoned, and the seat went vacant. The county could schedule a special election to fill it, or they went without representation until their next election. Either way, the Democrats had one less opposition vote to whatever was on their agenda. I, for one, would like to see all 59 seats declared abandoned, giving them a taste of their own medicine, but I doubt even Texas Republicans have the balls to do it...

<font color = lightgreen>Thorfinn is right, you know. The deals are made and sealed in high-dollar restaurants, hotel suites, high-rise office conference rooms, or on a plane. Only then do these deals become bills that are "debated" in the Legislature and passed.

Ok, maybe it isn't really quite that bad, but the way the Legislature is established by the Texas Constitution (which has at this point probably 200 amendments) only those who are independently wealthy can afford to become a State Representative or State Senator.

Actually, this kind of power play over redistricting is common here, even at the city level of government. Unfortunately, this will ultimately be settled in the Texas Supreme Court.

My advice to the Democrats: go back to the Legislature floor, vote against the redistricting--even if you will lose, then begin campaigning now to win a majority of seats in the next Legislature and redistrict again. Sad, but the only people you are hurting right now are yourselves.</font>

Not true. Democrats will lose so many seats with the redistricting that they can't make up for it at the polls. I say politically it's brilliant.

Gerrymandering however is a shame and is broken. It ain't just in Texas. In every state, when one party gets enough of a majority, it redraws the districts. This wastes our tax dollars just as surely as congressional junkets. Plus, in no less than three very convoluted cases, the Supreme Court has developed a line of jurisprudence on gerrymandering that is often cited as the dumbest string of meaningless conditions and "tests" in the law.

<font color="#f683ad">Odd how when things are done according to the rules the paper makes it sound like they are actually breaking them. I also like the way the article implies or appears to imply that the "republicans" seized control of the government...I do believe they won it in a public electoral process...the very same way the Dems won it the last time they were in power.

All in all I believe that if they desert their post to avoid a loss, they should be disenfranchised and replaced. It was their choice to give up their seats by walking out while they were insession...no different than if I walked out of my work place because I didn't like a policy.

TL nothing is stopping a single citizen from voting for the democruds after the redistricting...hell I live in a completley democrud dominated state....and yet...we managed to get a repug governor....</font>

[ 05-13-2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="#f683ad">Actually I think every single state should be redistricted..into geometric shapes...squares or rectangles or some such...no special wandering districts to gove one group or another a bigger voice...let the chips fall where they may. </font>

First let me say I am neither dem or repub. I like to joke I am a socialist libertarian because I beleive that most drugs and prostitution should be legal and that goverment should provide services like healthcare or education.

So partisanship aside, I agree that the dems running away seems irresponsible, but its not like they do this everytime they are losing. They chose this battle.

It just takes me for a loop that the police were sent out looking for these people. Aren't there missing children to look for? Rapists and murderers on the loose? It doesnt seem right.


I do apoligize for my choice of news link if you find it slanted. I have read some other articles on this that were less slanted. I chose this one randomly to help start a discussion on the issue and I liked the writing style. A friend of mine pointed out the Washington Post has a reputation for being overly Liberal (aka less republican) so perhaps I could have found a more neutral toned article. oh well...

LOL :D !

Better yet they could use a random generator like the one to make maps in the civilization games!

I still think the 'Pubs should show some balls and boot some of the "Congressmen" whose jobs will probably be lost through redistricting, anyway. If I were a Texan, and my Congressman took it on the lam, I would seriously consider getting a group together and suing him for any of several offenses, including dereliction of duty, breach of oath of office, getting paid for services not rendered, etc.

Actually, instead of redistricting, I think I would pay good money to get enough congressmen to stay home so they never get a quorum...

We could then take it one step further, and if a district doesn't send a representative, they don't have to pay taxes...

Freedom would be breaking out all over the country...

[EDIT]
Apropos of nothing, what would happen if the congressmen never turned up? What if their bodies were never recovered? Would there be no quorum until the next general election, or can missing persons be replaced?
[/EDIT]

[ 05-13-2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

Originally posted by MagiK
DO you mean the same electoral process that allowed George W. to loose the popular vote, loose the electoral vote and still somehow convince the conservative controlled Supreme Court to ignore the U.S. Constitution and declare him Emperor…I mean President?

They caught one! Holy cow I would have never imagined that a sort of "philibuster by absence" would lead to this.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86773,00.html

Tuesday, May 13, 2003

AUSTIN — A state trooper has arrested a missing Texas House Democrat and returned her to the Capitol.

News Eight Austin reports the trooper from the Texas Department of Public Safety captured state Rep. Helen Giddings (search) this morning.

It reported the trooper approached the Dallas Democrat as she was getting into her car at her Austin apartment. She later said she had asked to be allowed to drive to the Capitol in her own car, but the trooper refused and arrested her.

She has been missing from the House since House Democrats began a boycott of House proceedings yesterday. While she wasn't among the 53 Democrats who signed an absence notice, she said she was absent in support of the 53.

Fifty-six House Democrats are now missing as the boycott continues to deny the body a quorum and block any legislative action. The boycott began yesterday, when a Republican-backed congressional redistricting bill was set for debate.

I applaud any politician who fights to keep any law from passing. Like, THORFINN, I think we'd be well-served to pay them to sit home -- like the other bums. :D

Again, it's political genius. Unless the deadline (self-imposed) is removed (which will require a NEW vote), the passage of time will kill the bill. A little like a pocket veto in a weird sense.

THose of you who are angered by congressmen who don't show up for congressional sessions should be forewarned: DO NOT WATCH CSPAN.

DO you mean the same electoral process that allowed George W. to loose the popular vote, loose the electoral vote and still somehow convince the conservative controlled Supreme Court to ignore the U.S. Constitution and declare him Emperor…I mean President? </font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#f683ad">Ok let me eductate you since you seem to be a bit uninformed on the diferences between state and federal elections process...you see for the federal election there is a thing called the "Electoral College" when you go to school they will teach you about this system and how it works. Suffice it to say for now, that it is the way the system was set up and is the way it has been for about 200 years, Bush won and Gore lost period. There is no electoral college system for the Texas State electoral process...got that straight now? Hope I managed to clear up your condfusion about the diferences between State and Federal.</font>

<font color="#f683ad">Wonder what grounds they arrested her on?...from the way I heard it reported, there was nothing the government could do legally if the representatives wanted to run away. I notice the article didn't specify charges :( </font>

<font color="#f683ad">I does make you wonder what the hell they are gettig paid for and why the deserve retirement beefits that rich people drool over. *sigh* I hate politicians </font>

Well, to be fair, even given the validity of the electoral process, it did come down to a narrow-margin vote in Florida, where several thousand ballots were suspect at best and just wrong at worst. The ballots in palm beach (butterfly) were a joke -- evidenced by the fact that a perrenially Democratic, jewish community (and it is not prejudice to state the simple fact that most jews are Democrats) "voted" Republican.

It was simply an instance where the margin of victory was less than the margin of error. And the Supreme Court didn't say FL got it right, but rather that its prolonging of the process and ad-hoc recounts were even more wrong than the first count, and that we had to accept what we had as the best we could muster.

[ 05-13-2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Another article mentioned that Texas House of Rep. rules give the authority to arrest members who are intentionally absent to cause a quorum. It is unclear if this is actually an arrestable law in the same sense as murder or shoplifting. I dont know how house rules are treated with regards to the judicial branch.

[ 05-13-2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

<font color="#f683ad">How come you didn't bother to bring up the fact that the subsequent after the fact counts all turn up with Bush gaining more votes than Gore upon recounts? Or will you dismiss those stories as ambiguous? All the Supreme court did in this matter was force the Florida Legislature to follow its own laws....when they were wanting to change them mid election. The supreme court did not count the votes.

Edit: TL you know if he asks a smartass question he is gonna get a snippy reply.</font>

[ 05-13-2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

No, I will attribute those stories to the lawyers. Bush had great lawyers. Several thousand individual ballots were fought over, each in front of the judge. It's amazing, you would see Bush's lawyers arguing to include one ballot having a defect and then 10 minutes later arguing against another with the same defect -- and WINNING!! Do a Wall Street Journal search -- it ran an in-depth article (like 6 pages!) with full blow-up photos of the ballots (circa. January or February after the election, IIRC). It thoroughly analyzed the Bush team's post-election legal blitz. Brilliant, brilliant. Gore forgot Clinton's first rule: he who has the best legal counsel wins.

I don't want to drag out this beaten topic. It is suffice to say that it was a poor moment in time for the Nation that goes around the world policing elections for fairness and accuracy. Let's move past it.

Oh MY GOD! I just read on CNN that you can find a notice on the missing dems on THE TEXAS MISSING CHILD AMBER ALERT WEB SITE!!! I am dumbfounded again!


Heres a news link:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=ne...s.legislature/

<font color="#f683ad">
Sounds a bit like the Texicans are loosing their collective minds [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color = lightgreen>1) As I stated before, the Democrats are hurting only themselves. They are giving the Republicans the most powerful campaign tool for the coming year: "Rather than vote, the Democrats chose to abandon you, the voters." This will only delay the vote until the next legislative session, when there will probably be enough Republican members to meet quorum and pass whatever they please. In a democracy, it is the height of irresponsibility to run away if you cannot win.

2) I don't think the legislators can be "arrested" in the true sense, only detained and returned to the Capitol. However, this sets a very dangerous precedent: vote, or else. What about voting in absentia or by proxy?

3) How DARE they use the Amber Alert system to look for missing legislators? [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img] Enough said.

4) The whole idea of legislative boycotts is another dangerous precedent; the most dangerous one, in fact. When will this happen in other states? Or the Congress? By walking out, those who boycott are derailing the entire representative democratic process. This goes far beyond a simple matter of "we don't like how you plan to redraw the lines", this strikes at the very fabric of the process itself. How can you have a democracy when those who are elected to vote run away?

If this story doesn't worry those of you in Texas, and the US in general, it should. Not only will other groups try this in other locations, but someone will get the bright idea of changing the rules on quorums (quora?) to something like "a bill passes if a majority of those present, regardless of how few, vote to pass it" or "I have the implied authority to appoint someone to vote in their place". The backlashes and bickering, as bad as they are now, will only get worse if this is not solved quickly.

***************
Timber Loftis is right, you know. C-SPAN is great for watching legislators give impassioned speeches to three other members, some interns, a couple of the janitorial staff, and the camera operator. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] </font>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chewbacca:
Holy cow!!! It is politics time in Texas. I can't believe the majority party would be so darn arrogant to try to re-draw voting districs in their favor and when they are totally shut down and out, they send the police to arrest elected representatives. Were they gonna force them to vote at gunpoint? /QUOTE]

http://www.boottotheskull.com/mb/ima...isory_rsvd.gif

Awwwww, boo freakin hoo [img]graemlins/musicboohoo.gif[/img] What a bunch of damn crybabies http://www.boottotheskull.com/mb/ima...ilies/baby.gif
And since the Demonrats have forfeited their representative duties, replace them with others from their districts. Sending the posse after them is damned funny, though. http://www.boottotheskull.com/mb/images/smilies/axe.gif

Azred is absolutely right. All this does is make these Dems look like a bunch of petulent brats. Like kids who take their ball when the game is going against them. Only, instead of going home, they go to another neighborhood. The way I see it, this is just another sign of the decline of their party.