ULSAN, South Korea (Reuters) - Brazil's Rivaldo has said he used his 'experience' to get Turkey's Hakan Unsal sent off during the World Cup group C match in which he was caught playacting on the stadium's big screen.
<center>
http://www.soccernet.com/i/wc/020603/rivaldo0603_bb.jpg

<font size="1">Rivaldo clutches his face and chest in 'agony' after being struck by the ball on the legs (Allsport) </font>
</center>
Hakan Unsal was dismissed in the last minute of the match after kicking the ball at Rivaldo, who was waiting to take a corner.

The ball clearly hit Rivaldo, who sealed Brazil's 2-1 victory with a late penalty, in the midriff but the Barcelona player fell backwards in apparent agony clutching his face.

The whole incident was shown in close-up on the stadium's big screen and boos echoed around the ground.

'My experience counts,' Rivaldo said. 'I think he deserved to be sent off, of course he didn't get me in a place where I could be hurt. But you don't do the sort of thing he did so he deserved the sending-off.'

This type of act is more common in soccer, but is found in all sports. It can tactfully be called "bending the rules".

Do you think this kind of act is an ingenious piece of gamesmanship, or is it out and out cheating? If the World Cup was on the line, the game was tied, and someone had the opportunity to win a penalty for their side by making something look worse than it did, should they do it? Or, in the age of "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing", is there still such a thing as "winning with honor"?

You guys decide. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I believe in winning with honor. If you can't win fairly, have you really won? I think not.

Well, when you are playing, you should try everything the rules allow. This doesn't mean that doing something like this should be allowed. Afaik, acting isn't soccer. And in my opinion, it's bad sportsmanship to say the least. I hope they fine him and send him packing. And so that the Brazilian team doesn't get penilized, because the team didn't have anything to do with it, they should be allowed to call for a replacement player.

Isn't his name Wayne?

He deserves at least a yellow card for that act. If a player takes a dive after being tackled in the penalty box in the hopes of being awarded a penalty, does he get sent off for ungentlemanly conduct? The same rules should apply here.

the penalty wasnt a penalty. the turk shouldnt have been sent off. the last minute free kick for turkey the brazilians clearly didnt respect the 9mt distance for it, and rivaldo should have been sent off. but well, its only normal that the receive these "favors" from the referees in the world cup. i cant wait to play them and make them eat the grass.

Through the book at Senor Rivaldo - poetic justice if it gets him in the face this time [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Ironically really - before the start of the World Cup, FIFA came out and said that the referees should be especially alert to 'diving' and shirtpulling, AND punish offenders with yellow cards. Then Rivaldo gets away with something like this. :mad:

Noro - please explain 'The Hand of God' to us? :D

[ 06-04-2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

He hasn't got away with it yet. FIFA are looking into it and I'm sure he will get a ban.

It's cheating, unfortunately the vast majority of countries in the World Cup do it. If you don't do it you put yourself at a real disadvantage.

From the press :

Rivaldo faces ban after faking injury

AFP - Brazilian star Rivaldo could face a severe ban and a fine after faking an injury that led to Turkey's Hakan Unsal get sent off in the closing minutes of Monday's Brazil-Turkey World Cup match.

The Barcelona player collapsed at the corner flag clutching his head after Unsal kicked the ball at his his leg. Korean referee promptly showed Unsal the red card as Rivaldo rolled in agony.

FIFA's disciplinary committee will study a video of the incident and is expected to give a ruling shortly, according to FIFA spokesman Keith Cooper.

Before the World Cup began players were warned that referees had been ordered to clamp down on cheating.

"In the last World Cup it was the tackle from behind, this time our target is simulation," explained George Cumming, head of the referees commission.

After the match Rivaldo admitted he had feigned injury.

"Obviously I exaggerated the incident for the guy to be sent off," he said.

"The ball hit my hand and my leg. It didn't hit me in the face but that kind of attitude (kicking the ball against an opponent) must not be allowed on the pitch. He deserved to have a red card."

Well well well - let's see if justice prevails :D

If it adds some "flare" to the game...well.. :D
also..
it's Brazil..what do you expect :D

I kind of agree with both options.. :rolleyes:
I think that Rivaldo and Hakan Unsal should of both recieved a yellow card. Because Unsal hit the ball at him in the first place and Rivaldo faked it so he at least deserves a yellow. Everyone saw that he was playacting..why didn't the ref?

south american players do that a lot, it's their nature. I know that in countries like holland and england it's not appreciated, not even by your teammates.

Don't know if I like the way this comment was phrased, johnny. Sounds just a little bit racist to me. Maybe it would have been better to say: "South American players have shown a tendency to playact to win penalties".

This way you're focusing on the act, rather than a race of people who you claim do it.

Besides, I've seen just as much of this in the Premier League, Primera Liga, the Bundesliga and the Serie A. It is a GLOBAL thing, not just something restricted to South Americans.

I dont neccassarily see it as racist memoch. For example most pro fighters from japan or russia will not fake a hit to the groin or overact it but if a american is brushed there he is often taught by his coach to play it for all its worth and double over in mock agony. Its just the way a certain countrys athletes are coached. Of course some people are just whiners ;)

[ 06-04-2002, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: caleb ]

all I can say is that some people feel that they must win at all cost.Also , if they didnt have it on film would people still think he was acting or would they be angry that another player kicked a ball at his face? It seems like its only cheating IF you get caught.

playacting is part of the game, but Rivaldo is so bad at acting it out that it was too obvious.

I'm a footballer myself, and the coach has taught us to win at all cost. even playacting if we have to. ;)

[ 06-04-2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Kakero ]

At the biggest sporting spectacular in the world, with cameras at every conceivable angle and an audience in the billions, why would he believe he could get away with it??? I will adjust your last sentence to reflect my thoughts. It's cheating, not "only cheating". In the forum in which he was playing there was never going to be any IF about getting caught.

I don't think it was intentional by Johnny, he's a good guy...it was just the "it's their nature" part that caught my attention. I'm happy to say my piece and leave it at that - I don't want this thread to go off topic as I'm quite curious about people's opinions on this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Seeeeeeeee seeeeeeeeee [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Noro - please explain 'The Hand of God' to us? :D </font>[/QUOTE]eeeeh.... ehhhrrrrmmm... well, maybe it was a handball, but the 2nd one was worth double!!!!!!!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think its disgusting. I love the world game, but to see that happen even on an international scale adds an element of ridicule to soccer which shouldn't be there. It's no wonder that nearly all my friends think Soccer is a 'weak' game, and think that Aussie rules football is better.

The penalty WASNT a penalty. BUT the turksish should have been sent off, if u take a look at the rules of soccer, "if the last man of the defence hit the opposite player and stop the play, making a foul, he must be sent off as he stopped the progress of a goal-chance play"

The guy who shot the ball should have received a yellow card, just like Rivaldo, but as the turkish guy already had an yellow card he should have been sent off...so Rivaldo's acting could have only resulted in a yellow card for him, as the turkish guy had to be sent off whatever was the reaction of Rivaldo.

If u guys want to complain at something u should focus at the penalty that didnt happened, it was outside the area.

And about the previous post that said something about "its of common use in the south-america this kind of cheating" any of u remember that world cup that England, i may be wrong about the team who won, beat Germany in the final with a goal that didnt happened - the ball
hit the post then hit the goal-line and didnt enter - so before u make a statement make sure it's a fair one and don't forget to look at ur own mistakes bfore pointing at other people flaws.

Thanks, by the way i voted it IS cheating, even tho it's of common use ALL over the globe.

[ 06-04-2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Vlad Tepes ]

memnoch, you know that wasn't my intention, but i'll give you an example. About four seasons back feyenoord bought one of the greatest argentinian talents from that moment, julio ricardo cruz. In his first match for feyenoord he faked being tackled and got a penaltykick out of it. Now he was all smiling and stuff but instead his teammates congratulated him with earning them the penalty, they gave him angry looks and cursed him out. Overhere such a thing is simply not done. You should have seen the look on his face, he was truly amazed, he thougt he did something right. So you see, overthere it is completely different than in (some) european countries

Noro - please explain 'The Hand of God' to us? :D </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, and how it stings! Nice one, Donut, that little jab made my day!

Desperation to win...

Remember the solgan:

"FIFA Play Fair"

Be a man and win fair-and-square, as they say. (Females can still play honourably too right? [img]smile.gif[/img] )

1966 isn't the same thing at all. Nobody has ever claimed that England cheated to win the game. Rivaldo is a cheat pure and simple, and like Maradona he is proud to be a cheat. As long as you don't get caught it's 'okay' to cheat.

Here's a hypothetical question for you. Your team is playing in an important cup tie when one of your players is injured. The opposition put the ball out for a throw in so that your player can receive treatment. Convention dictates that the fair thing to do is to throw the ball back to the opposition when the game restarts. For some reason a couple of your players don't do this and your team scores from the restart. The opposition are naturally furious about this and their manager threatens to take his players from the field.

What should you do?
If you go on to win the game what should happen next?

[ 06-05-2002, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

Something like happened in the Premier League some years ago - one team had an injured player and sent the ball out of play. While everyone was running up to check on the injurie, one of the opposing players quickly took the throw-in, and three of them ran (almost unopposed) up and scored. That raised a huge debate about sportmanship and fairplay.

(IIRC it was Arsenal-players)

Ahn Donut i kind didnt get u here... i mean are u saying that Rivaldo acting gave Brazil the victory? Oh, and if u are saying that Luizao faked that penalty, thats exactly wut happened in 1966 when the referee saw something that didnt happened, the same thing that happened in korea a few days ago...

No I don't think it gave Brazil the victory. But he was pretending that he had been hit in the face so that The Turk would get sent off. if Luizao dived to get a penalty then that is also cheating. No English player cheated to get the goal in 1966. It takes some form of action on the part of the cheat for it to be dishonest.

I see ur point now, but Donut the turkish player had to be sent off, no matter where the ball hit Rivaldo, perhaps u havent seen the scene by a different angle but i saw it from an angle where u could see the turkish player shooting the ball on Rivaldo clearly, i mean of course that Rivaldo's acting was lame and that wasnt necessary, however the turkish player had already received an yellow card and in soccer u dont shoot ball over other players deliberately when the match is paused, i believe that both sides, the turkish and the brazilian forgot the fair-play thing, i think that right thing to be done was to give Rivaldo an yellow (perhaps even red) card and to send off the turkish, as he already had an yellow card.

And about Luizao that wasnt cheating, he tried to keep the ball under his control but the turk was the last man of defence and grabbed luizao, he (luizao) fell outside the area but that freak-referee saw a penalty, as u can see a simple mistake by th referee so Luizao wasnt cheating.

But i respect ur opinion and i think that's wut make sports so cool and passionate.

Just to throw another iron into the fire regarding 1966.On the bbc last night they showed some news footage from the game. When Germany scored their equalising goal in injury time you can clearly see the linesman flagging for offside , also a german in an offside position on the far post..so all settled then . Infact the germans brought the over the line controversy upon themselves by scoring an ilegall 2nd goal. :D

[ 06-05-2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Lanesra ]

rivaldo was wrong, he cheated, but indeed the turkish player deserved punishment for shooting the ball in the way he did, that wasn't very friendly either.

Two yellow cards should have been the ruling for the Rivaldo incident - one for Hakan Unsal for kicking the ball to Rivaldo (which would have been enough to send him off since he already had one yellow) and one for Rivaldo for his playacting.

I saw the incident on tv last night and LMAO!!!!

Soccer reminds me of Wrestling sometimes with all the faking and academy award winning performances. Don't you guys just feel ripped off sometimes? The amount of times players are so badly hurt that they obviously can't continue, get picked up on a stretcher, carried off to the sideline, get back up fresh as a daisy and run back on, is ridiculous. You won't see that in Rugby League! If you stay down after a tackle, all you're doing is giving the player who hit you more satisfaction. And if you get carried off on a stretcher, you don't come back on because you ARE actually hurt.

Avi.

well, maybe thats because football, as well as a contact sport, is a skills sport. i dont mean to demerit rugby league, but i dont even know what it is (im guessing its australian rugby?), and ive seen that one a couple of times in a gilette sports thingie. football playacting has become fairly common now, because of all the money involved, and the desperation to win. nevertheless, football can be quite rough, though thats not what it is about.

football is the most popular and the best sport in the world, played everywhere from the little kids in africa playing in dusty pitches, to kids in brazil playing in the sand, to the usa (where 35% of the kids play it, more than any other sport), to all of europe, to asia and everywhere.

the greatest footballplayers are mostly very fragile guys who excell in avoiding tackles. This game isn't about being tough, it's about being smarter and faster than your opponent. Look at vinnie jones for example, that was a tough footballplayer, but i don't think there was anybody who took him serious in the end.

<font color="cyan">Cheating.</font>

<font color="silver">Okay, my town does nothing BUT play soccer. We have no football team, our basketball team always has the minimum amout of players with no subs and they always lose, our track team consisted of ten guys, our baseball teams are pathetic, and we might as well ignore the other sports. But our soccer team kicks @$$.

I'm a hardcore soccer player, and pulling that sh** is unthinkable. If you arn't going to win, unless you cheat, then you cheat, thats not a win. Its a masqurade.

That is the most un-sportsmen like conduct I've ever heard of. We had someone who tried that once, and the coach came right out and pulled him out of the game, and forbid him to play in the next one. That acting is untolerable. </font>

<font color="cyan">I wanna add something in a divers defence...although they don't have much of one. Coming from a nation where we only play football (or cricket, pah), I play football alot.

And not being bigheaded, but if you ask my bro, I'm good. I'm the youngest in my team by far (17), play in a very respectable league, good grounds, good pitches, and I would be getting paid if our changing rooms didn't get burnt down (no insurance,so have to save for a new one).

I play on the wings, either side. I am very fast and skillfull. And in the past, I have taken dives. Never if there is NO contact, but if it is minimal and my options are better going down (i.e I need a rest, or I'm goin nowhere).

So, I have never dived, but I have "gone down easily". And I don't enjoy it, it's a heat of the moment thing, and it happens without thinking.

Plz dnt flame, just understand. Lol.</font>