<font color=steelblue>This is going to be awesome!!! Audioslave, Incubus, Janes Addiction, Perfect Circle, and others. I can not wait!! [img]graemlins/happydance.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music06.gif[/img]
Anyone else have plans for this?</font>

<font color=ff6600> Bumping this for the daytime folks. :D </font>

Sounds like a helluva concert. Wish I was there. :D

Yeah, sounds good - I'm meaning to do a search for links to buy tickets or to call ticketmaster for it, cause it's coming to Chicago. Looks good, for a change. ;)

<font color=ff6600>I went to the one in, I think, 97', It was Metallica, Soundgarden, Ramones, Devo, etc... Was a good show. Glad I got to see Ramones before the recent tragedies :( . Devo was cool to! :D It was the 6th time seeing Metallica, first seeing Soundgarden. Anyway, its going to be a great show. Its playing up by Tacoma at a new amphitheater called White River amphitheater. They usually play at the Gorge amphitheatre. Check here: http://www.lollapalooza.com/ to see where its playing by you. :D </font>

Err sounds great....I haven't heard of any of those....can't be any good if there's no rap groups there :D

<font color=red> Them are fightin words buddy... :D </font>

Yeah I mean how are ya gonna get the crowd bouncing to some indy or rock crap or whatever it is? :D ;)

[ 04-21-2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

<font color=ff6600> Uh, ya. Bouncing? I would rather dance than bounce... :D
We better be carefull with what we say here about the "crap" we listen to my friend. ;) </font>

Uh call me slow but I don't get what you're hinting at...
why careful?

Well, sounds like a blast, hope you have a good time Lord K. Though I probably wouldn't be much good there, I'd just bounce since I can't dance :D

Vaskez, heed my words, rock rules over all... *echoes*

<center> [img]graemlins/musicband.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/1djsmile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music06.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music04.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music02.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/musicband.gif[/img] </center>

[ 04-21-2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

Well some rock is quite good. If you mean it's the most popular genre then it might rule over all in that sense, but in no other sense. Lyrically, rap is far more advanced and musically the classical genre is far more advanced. Rap and classical are the 2 extremes of the musical scale.

Well said my brother! [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

Vaskez, first you said that its not good, then called it crap. Anyone smell a fire? :D </font>

<font color=ff6600>I would beg to differ. Ever heard Tool, just as an example? What style of rap are you talking about? I would not call rap the exteme lyrical part of the spectrum. There are many genres with great lyrics and poetry. Are you a writer? Are you a musician? </font>

<font color=ff6600>I would beg to differ. Ever heard Tool, just as an example? What style of rap are you talking about? I would not call rap the exteme lyrical part of the spectrum. There are many genres with great lyrics and poetry. Are you a writer? Are you a musician? </font> </font>[/QUOTE]Heard of Tool, haven't heard anything from them though. I *would* call rap the lyrical extreme but that's just my opinion I guess. Anyway I was just trying to be annoying for a laugh no need to get all defensive....

I'd say music isn't really music without drums and a guitar [img]tongue.gif[/img]

*skin crawls at dance music* Bah [img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img]

Well I agree about the drums and about the dance music... I do like *some* heavy dance/house tracks when I'm in a club but not to listen to at home.

<font color=ff6600> True, it is your opinion. Can you give me an example of what you call rap at the lyrical extreme? And please compare it to, lets say, Bob Dylin, the Beattles, Jeff Buckley, Rush, I could go on. Sorry if I'm getting to defensive for you, but you started it with your opinion about my taste being crap. Maybe you should be less aggresive if you dont want a defensive response. And yes it worked, you annoyed me, good times. </font>

[ 04-21-2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]

LOL. Well what I call lyrical extreme is when not only is the main focus of the song the lyrics but they are inventive, have a deep meaning and/or tell a good story and flow well with the beat.
IMO 2Pac - Changes has very good rhyming, a lot of Nas songs are lyrically very clever. Ice Cube has some lyrically very clever tracks.

LOL I just said "that rock crap" not even having heard your bands so it's not like I was calling your taste crap - I haven't even heard it. Anyway I'm used to people saying my taste is crap so go ahead - I'll stick to the energy, lyrical prowess and funky beats of hip-hop. :D

anyway geez, the only reason I even started this convo was cos I'm bored of work and am doing anything to get out of carrying on....
but for the record your taste is crap. I don't know what it is but it's crap [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

[ 04-21-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

Seems to me some rappers think rap is a superior form of art:

Dre gotta move fast, gotta perform mirracles
Gee willycores Dre, only bat syllables
Look at all the bullshit that goes on in Gotham
When I'm gone time to get rid of these rap criminals
So, skip to your lou, while I do what I do best
You ain't even impressed no more, you used to wait
Flows too wet, nobody clost to wet
Nobody says it was till everyone knows the shit
The most hated on outta all those who say it hate it
On an eighties songs and
exagerate it all So much
they make it all up
There's no such thing
Like a female with good looks who cooks and cleans
It just means so much more to so much more
People when you rapping and you know what for
The show must go on, so I'd like to welcome ya'll
To Marshall and Andre's carnival
(Eminem & Dre, "Business")

To see the flip side of the coin, here's what one famous person had to say about rap, at least by the aforementioned artist:

Christina Aguilera - Will The Real Slim Shady Please Shut Up

May I have your attention please.
May I have your attention please.

Will the Real Slim Shady Please Shut up
I repeat
Will the Real Slim Shady Please Shut up.
We're gonna have a problem here.

Ya'll act like you've never heard a white person before.
His rhymes heard before.
Punkage trying to be hard core. (yo wassup!)
Well Marshal Mathers is back worse than before,
making a snore, whining in the microphone.
It's the return of the oh wait, no wait!
You're a fool.
You didn't pay money for this cd, did you?
And Dr. Dre did, everything you idiot,
without Dre's beep ass you're as good as dead.
The world's hot enough withoput eminem.
chicki chicki even his girlfriend's cheating on him.
look at him,walking around.
living off dre, acting so cool,
but he's really kind of weak tho.
little twit blasted me on his new cd.
why?
cuz i turned him down for a date hehe.
as for the question of who came first was it carson daly or was it fred durst?
sorry slim but this is gonna hurt,
they both came closer than you ever will jerk.
you're song is on my nerves.
you're song is on my nerves!
you're kinda lucky cuz you got more faith than you deserve.
that is the message i deliver to little kids.
you can become famous and never know what talent is!
of course they're gonna like you! of course they do! you're like a cartoon version of ricky schroder on silver spoons.
You ain't nothing but a product patched to be boughta,
ya know, a year from now,
you won't even be thought of.
so you're about dead animals and cannibals and some
day you'll stop dating dogs and start dating higher mammals.
And there's a million women just like me who think like me
and who can see that slim shady is just a boy dealing with puberty.
so if you agree scream loudly with me!

You're slim shady yes you're the real shady
you sound like peter brady you get quite irritating so
won't the real slim shady please shut up, please shut up!
__________________________________________________ _
Final thought: anyone who thinks all classical is more musically developed than all rock has never hear Phish, which is as technically talented, learned, skilled, and complex as Mozart - whether you like their music or not.

There's a good couple of reasons behind why I don't really like rap all that much. For one, from what the rap I've heard, they only sing about killing this or shooting that (take one of Eminem's songs for example, talking about leaving his wife's body in a trunk [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] ). And second, no guitar :D

Let's see... While Marshall certainly sang about putting his wife in the trunk, he also has addressed some real issues - like Columbine and war. Here's a bit of lyric about the growing up and maturing he experienced in the last 2-3 years. You will be hard-pressed to find better lyrics anywhere in any art form:

I dont wanna quit
This s--t, it feels like this is it
For me to have this much i feel like this is it
This is not a game this fame the real life is as sick
Publicity my ass, consume my f-n d*
F* the guns, im done ill never look at gats
If i scrap, i scrap it, ima never woops some ass
I love my fans but no one ever puts a grasp on the fact
That I sacrificed everything I had
I never dreamt i'd get to the level that im at
This is wack, this is more then I ever coulda asked
Everywhere I go I had a sweater, hood or mask
What about math? how come I wasnt never good at that
Its like the boy in a bubble who never could adapt I'm trapped
If I could go back, I never woulda rapped
I sold my soul to the devil, i'll never get it back
I just wanna leave this game with level head intact
Imagine going from bein' no one and seein everything blow up
And all you did was grow up emceein'
Its f-n crazy, all I wanted was to give Hailey the life i never had
I've forced us to live alienated, so i'm sayin:
Goodbye
Goodbye Hollywood
Please dont cry for me
When im gone for good
So, goodbye
Goodbye Hollywood
Please dont cry for me
When I'm gone for good

Well Gangrell you obviously haven't heard enough....

this is from 2Pac - Dear Mama:
"Pour out some liquor and I reminsce, cause through the drama
I can always depend on my mama
And when it seems that I'm hopeless
You say the words that can get me back in focus
When I was sick as a little kid
To keep me happy there's no limit to the things you did
And all my childhood memories
Are full of all the sweet things you did for me
And even though I act craaazy
I gotta thank the Lord that you made me
There are no words that can express how I feel
You never kept a secret, always stayed real
And I appreciate, how you raised me
And all the extra love that you gave me
I wish I could take the pain away
If you can make it through the night there's a brighter day
Everything will be alright if ya hold on
It's a struggle everyday, gotta roll on
And there's no way I can pay you back
But my plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated
"
Simple rhymes in that one but it's a nice mellow track.


Another good track: 2Pac - Unconditional Love

"Driven by my ambitions, desire higher positions
So I proceed to make Gs, eternally and my mission
Is to be more than just a rap musician
The elevation of today's generation
If could make 'em listen
Prison ain't what we need, no longer stuck in greed
Time to plan, strategize, my family's gotta eat
When we make somethin out of nothing
No pleasure in the suffering,
My neighborhood would be good
If they could cut out all the bustin
The liquor and the weed the cussin
Sending love out to my block
The struggle never stops
"


But I also like funky stuff like below:


"Now everytime I see you cats is rollin in packs
For the life of me I cannot see why you don't know how to act
Love to clown when you deep, but when you on that solo creep
out on the streets you don't hear a peep"

To be honest I just stick up for my taste cos everyone hates it. I think most genres have really good songs in them but they are good in different ways. Rock is better musically probably if you like the sort of instruments they use. I like funky beats and cold, hard rhymes so I like rap etc.

If you have patience to read all the lyrics posted, I suggest you do... anyway some more raw but true and to the heart lyrics, it's about kids who had a tough time at school, I bet a lot of people feel these lyrics:

from D-12 - Revelation (oh yeah Gangrell this song has a great electric guitar part at the end):

"No matter how bad the beatin, I went to school cheatin
My dad whooped my ass at a PTA meetin
Stick with school I had to have nuts just to do it
Got bored and became truant
When I had the gall to go I just couldn't do it
I was lured into corners by the peer pressure shit
How would you feel if you was held by the tip of a barrel
Gettin threatened to get your skin ripped to bone marrow
Bet suburban kids never got rushed for their apparel
like me, outcast, last in class
First to leave, when the teacher called on me
Best believe I had somethin up my sleeve....

Wait 'til school's over, pu-pil are people to shoot through
Kids goin cuckoo, with a two-two
Since my friend is this new dude, in this high school
Losin his noodle learn that people don't like you
The football jocks is, spittin on him
Popular kids in school is now pickin on him
Burned out youngsta niggaz now hittin on him
And his teacher in his english class keep flippin on him
And now he's grounded with no allowances
for drinkin forty ounces, cause he was caught by his counselors
And why the ■■■■ I gotta ride the bench coach?
Already got expelled for wearin a trenchcoat
All I ever seen is.. {violence, violence}
Told me to keep silent, stop battin my eyelids
It's apparent that my parents weren't parents at all
That's why I blew out my brains and murdered you all

"

I just pasted these from a lyrics site...

[ 04-21-2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

Did I mention rap isn't very positive either?

Bah! If you wanna listen to chirpy, happy stuff go and buy an S-Club 7 album or something :D

And you'd prefer the suicidle, death wish type of music? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

No "suicidle, death wish type of music" suck ass.
I prefer rap.

<font color=ff6600> Vaskez, I am going to leave this little argument where its at. I will chalk it up to you just havin fun with me. Thats ok. Good times. I love it when somebody gets in the mood to annoy others, its so much fun.
It can be so rewarding...
Please though, the next time I start a thread, keep your mood to yourself, and I will keep my sarcasm to myself. Deal? [img]graemlins/deal.gif[/img] I dont like flame threads, and this sure became one. :mad: </font>

[ 04-22-2003, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]

Hehe you're obviously the wrong person to mess around with, and they call ME grouchy. *crowns LordK IW grouch*
Anyway I don't see what you're so upset about, I just said rock was crap for a laugh to see how people react and people start getting offended? It's not like a said their mother was ...something. It's just an obviously unthought-about statement not meant perfectly seriously.
Anyway, it started turning into a good debate, the only reason I don't use smilies sometimes is because it makes the post like "duh of course it's a joke" whereas without smilies it sounds like I'm serious but I rarely am! :D I thought everyone on here knew that I mean I've been around for over 2 years.

<font color=ff6600>It's all good V. I have not BSed with you much, so I dont know your sense of humor. Sorry I got so upset. Just did'nt see the point of your remarks. Bigons. :D </font>

I don't think the two should even be mentioned in the same sentence, but either way: classical music is in an entirely different league than modern day music. I'm not saying it's better or worse (because I fear we'll get a tiresome "is not!" "are too!" debate ;) ), it's just... different. Not only the way of composing, instrumentation, scale, structure, timelessness, depth, climax building, length, focus, purpose and many other aspects, but the listening experience just the same... The cultural backgrounds and the timesetting in which the music was composed play a role as well.
Except on a purely subjective level and open to a lot of criticism, I doubt it's really possible to say how "Phish is as talented, learned, skilled and complex as Mozart"; we're talking about two different kinds of expression of art alltogether. It's almost like saying how Phish is as talented, learned, skilled and complex as Vincent van Gogh, you just can't compare the two. ;)

Sorry, Grojlach, I respectfully disagree. Believe me, I love classical types of music, especially Mozart and Bach to name a few.

But, I think the extreme talent and ability to mush so much wonderful sound into such small spaces of time that was Mozart's forte can still be found in musicians. Yes, the music is "different," but I have really found no theoretical differences between the music of hundreds of years ago and that of today. From the time music first became commercialized, I think it is all fair game to use in comparrison. And, yes, Mozart was a contract musician.

It is fair to compare Rembrandt to Caravaggio to Van Gogh to Dali - a collage of artists spanning many centuries, so why not compare Mozart to Phish or someone else in modern music (perhaps Blakey's jazz [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] )

I'll give you one fair comparrison. To the extent the movie "Amadeus" is fairly historically accurate, it was said of Mozart's music that "there are simply too many notes for the ear to hear." In the modern day, that's Phish. ;)

Why do I pick on this now-separated group of Vermonters as an example? Simple, I think they all had master's degrees in music and are technically and classically educated in music. But, I guess I could have picked a "rock opera" too. The point is historical comparrison is fair in music as it is in any other art form and as it is in politics and war.