|
over the use of Dolphins. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] Surely they have better things to do. Like make more adds with Pamela Anderson wearing nothing but a PETA tank top. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Beware before you visit this Source. PETA CALLS ON RUMSFELD TO LEAVE ANIMALS OUT OF WAR IN WAKE OF AWOL DOLPHIN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For Immediate Release: April 1, 2003 Contact: Stephanie Boyles 757-622-7382 This morning, PETA fired off a letter to U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, urging him to order an end to the use of dolphins and other animals by the military. The request follows reports that a 33 year old male Atlantic (cold water) dolphin named Takoma, charged with hunting for mines in the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr, had gone missing for more than 48 hours. Other dolphins put in similar situations have strayed only to be recaptured or attacked by sharks, unable to defend themselves in foreign waters. PETA points out that although dolphins are highly intelligent animals, they do not understand that lives depend on their assignments and, according to dolphin trainers, can be easily distracted from their "missions." PETA further states that the Pentagon is obligated to protect American troops as effectively as possible and that using animals not only is cruel, but also may cost lives instead of saving them. PETA also expressed to Rumsfeld concern over the use of chickens and pigeons in Kuwait, dozens of whom have died from stress and exposure. The birds were sent to detect poison gas even though units stationed there have already been outfitted with chemical-detection equipment. "Wars are human endeavors," says PETA wildlife caseworker Stephanie Boyles. "These animals never enlisted. They know nothing of Iraq or Saddam Hussein, and they probably won’t survive. Our troops deserve the best protection, and the animals deserve to be left out of the conflict." PETA’s letter to Sec. Rumsfeld follows. April 1, 2003 The Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense 1000 Defense Pentagon Washington, DC 20301-1000 Dear Mr. Secretary: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is a nonprofit organization with more than 750,000 members and supporters worldwide dedicated to animal protection. The Pentagon recently announced that the Navy is using dolphins and sea lions to intercept terrorists and mines in the Persian Gulf, and the Army and the Marines are using chickens and pigeons to detect the presence of biological and chemical weapons and dogs to detect weapons and rescue troops. Many of the chickens and pigeons have already suffered and died from stress and exposure. Now the dolphin Takoma goes AWOL for an extended period. We support our troops and believe that they deserve the best defense that money can buy, but using animals is cruel and may cost lives rather than saving them. On behalf of our many members and supporters, we respectfully request that you order the military to stop using animals. We understand that equipment for Australian divers was "bumped" off a flight in order to bring in another dolphin to replace Takoma, prompting the divers to question the effectiveness of the Navy’s dolphin program. While we understand that Takoma has since returned, his 48-hour disappearance proves that dolphins and sea lions cannot offer a reliable defense or surveillance for our troops. These are intelligent animals who have minds of their own, but they have no idea that lives will be lost if they fail to properly perform tasks, yet the military wants to rely on the actions of these animals in order to protect our troops. In an article from the Contra Costa Times, 2nd Lt. Paula Rood, a former trainer of the dolphin Makai, said that dolphins often become distracted by other animals in the area or will just take off and not be seen for hours. She said, "If they’re not interested, they’re like a 3-year-old who loses interest quickly and they’re just not going to play anymore." Wars are human endeavors. While a person, a political party, or a nation may decide that war is necessary, the animals never do. Like civilians, they often become the victims of war, but now, the U.S. military is deliberately putting animals in harm’s way. These animals never enlisted. They know nothing of Iraq or Saddam Hussein, and there is also no guarantee that these animals will save human lives. In fact, they may cause the loss of lives. Certainly, our troops deserve the very best in surveillance and chemical-weapons detection, and using animals is obviously not the best way to protect our servicemembers. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely yours, Stephanie Boyles, Wildlife Biologist Research & Investigations Department |
*Defense Secretary Rumsfield's reply deleted.*
|
I think I called this one a while back in one of your threads on the war forum. I knew it was only a matter of time before this went down. :D
|
lol ^_^ That's pretty funny stuff!
|
wow, some people can be strange. though, the reason they stated sounds meaningful. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
|
Quote:
Pam Anderson, huh? Do You Like Elizabeth Berkely? Cesaer or Ranch? ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] |
I thought those idiots were too busy being human shields in Baghdad.
Hey, a guy can dream... [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img] |
<font color="#ffccff">Why do I continually confuse PETA with P.I.T.A.? </font>
|
Quote:
Pam Anderson, huh? Do You Like Elizabeth Berkely? Cesaer or Ranch? ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Oh man, Lil Lil. That page is too funny, and what makes it funnier is that it's supposed to be serious (at least I'm guessing so). Apparently PETA has decided to use sex to sell thier message. How tacky. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] |
Hmmm, why do I suddenly feel like having a salad?
|
Quote:
Pam Anderson, huh? Do You Like Elizabeth Berkely? Cesaer or Ranch? ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]From the sex-appeal quiz: My favorite one that people generally don't know: 3. True or false: Milk does a body good. ANSWER: False. Despite what the eyes-on-their-wallets dairy industry wants you to believe, drinking milk does not prevent osteoporosis; instead, the high animal-protein content of milk actually causes calcium to be leached from the body. Industrialized Western nations, the biggest consumers of milk, have the highest rates of osteoporosis, while regions of the world where dairy products are essentially unheard of, such as China and Japan, are virtually osteoporosis-free. Get the right amount of calcium from the plant world–tofu, broccoli, navy beans, sesame seeds, nuts, and fortified orange juice are all good sources. So, no matter how much milk you drink, every drop causes a net loss of calcium. The ADA did a study on this 5 or 10 years ago and refuses to release the findings. Don't believe the hype about milk. ;) If you want more info, read the book Milk is Poison. If you like it, that's one thing, but don't go off thinking it gives you strong bones and teeth. I think I'll head home to my own personal lettuce lady. :D Oh - and Caesar dressing contains anchovies, while ranch contains dairy - just so you know. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [ 04-09-2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ] |
What a PETAful letter, is all i have to say.
|
uhhhhhhhh....didn't the war start a few weeks back? And wouldn't the dolphins have done the job they were instructed now that the presidential palace is in US hands? Talk about pointless...
P.S. Why didn't they protest over use of seals as well? |
I'm tired of this.
1. Milk is no better or worse than any other food consumed in appropriate quantities to provide necessary nutrients. 2. Yes, it is the breast milk of bovines. What's your point? 3. No, it's not pus. That's just a convenient false analogy to make it seem disgusting. 4. Anyone who truly beleives that humans are natural herbivores has not done much research on the subject. Completely herbiverous (grazing) animals all have ways to digest cellulose, the primary energy source found in leafy plants. We humans have no way to digest this substance and simply pass it through (fiber). Even with the ability to digest cellulose, herbiverous animals live to eat plants, chew and re-chew all day long in order to get enough food. 5. We are Omnivores! Do you hear that! OMNIVORES! We require some plant based foods and some animal based foods to get the proper mix of nutrients. 6. Modern science and food processing are the things that have made the Vegan diet possible. Without processed foods to fill in the gaps, the vegan diet is sorely lacking in certain vital nutrients. Lastly, I am not knocking a HEALTHY diet. That's great! Nor am I knocking REASONABLE animal rights. Anyone with respect for life should believe in those anyway. I am knocking what I consider an extremist view, and the inability to accept what we are as human beings. Don't be ashamed to be at the top of the food chain! We're not perfect, but we're as good as it gets on this particular planet! |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Regarding the top of the food chain, I agree again. If you and I went out in the forest and killed a deer ourselves, I'd eat it. But, many many people admit they would NOT eat meat if they couldn't buy it in 8-oz. pre-packaged amounts. I think that removing the act of eating meat from the acts of preparing meat dehumanizes us just a bit - to appreciate life is to see all sides, including the side that life must end for yours to continue. |
Well, I have killed and butchered many a deer, dove, pheasant, and quail, and I hav boned many a chicken breast and thigh. I like cooking veggies because they are less trouble, but they also do not have the culinary potential that meat has. Chicken, for instance is probably the most versatile ingredient in the cook's armamenterium. Certainly, there is no discernable link to human osteoporosis that I am aware of, but I really do not approve of consumption of much milk after age 12, as it is high in saturated fat. Calcium is better obtained from calcium carbonate or oyster-shell calcium.
|
True story:
A friend of was walking to work one calm morning. Out of the corner of his eye he saw a flapping piegon, appearently attacked by a Falcon minutes earlier. What would you do in this case ask yourselves...? He nailed it to put it out of its misery and proceeded to work. Within minutes of his arrival PETA was there talking to his boss about the matter. He was repremended and scolded, he could have lost his job, sent back to work and nothing was ever said about it again.. (not me, although I would send it on its way myself.) |
He should have nailed the PETA freak and put it out of all of our misery. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
|
Quote:
|
He was walking across a median plain where even in the morning joggers jog and walkers walk ;)
Many whom are curious and have cell phones. Imagine running upon a 6ft man beating a yard bird, picking it up, and depositing it into the trash can and going to work across the median. Pretty heavy I know. |
i didnt know that dolphin was part of the pets training.. dogs yes.. dolphins and birds no...
|
Quote:
No offense meant with the choice of dressings, they were just the two at the forefront of my ability to name any at the moment...I eat a variety of dressings, it all depends on what the meal is. [img]smile.gif[/img] |
Quote:
I thank God for cows (chickens too). |
<font color="#ffccff">Hey TL, if Milk is so bad for you, why did both my kids do so damned well at growing and developing in their first year of life while subsisting on nothing but mothers milk? You would think that if milk were poison they would have sickened and died. </font>
|
Timber, that post wasn't directed at you. I didn't quote your post for that reason. Your post did spark the fire though so I can see where you might think I was jumping on you. I've seen quite a few PETA anti-meat, anti-milk articles and the quack science and medical garbage just exasperate me. As a matter of fact I read one against milk just a short time before looking at this thread. I was primarily venting about those. I also want to clarify that I don't claim that Vegan diets are bad things as diets. They're generally really healthy along with processed meat/milk replacement products. It's the fanatic attitude and disinformation that sometimes come along with it that irk me. I can't stand being scowled at for eating meat. It happened once. Terms like "Carrion Breath" or "Corpse Breath" really get me going! Vegan as a healthy diet and lifestyle is great. Vegan as a religion trying to aquire converts isn't. Anyway, I apologize if you took that post personally. I didn't mean to jump on you. [img]smile.gif[/img]
[ 04-11-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ] |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Look - I *like* dairy. Milk not so much anymore, but I LURVE CHEESE. :D :D Point is, eat it cause you like it, just don't believe the hype about CALCIUM. Mine is a very narrow statement. Regarding the "propoganda," is there anything wrong with admitting the "truth." This is really an important point because both sides of any issue try to cast their position in terms that benefit them. Calling it "body parts" instead of "chicken legs" may be "propoganda" but "hamburger" and "steak" and "sweetbread" (which means thyroid-gland-ripped-from-throat) are euphamisms. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The common names of foods are meant to disassociate the nature of the meat, removing thoughts of from whence it came from your mind and, in turn, from your palette. If you get so irked by the small minority of us who strive to remind you that it is a carcass you are in fact cooking and eating, then you should consider how emotionally/mentally attached you are to food euphamisms rather than direct your ire at those people. I refer to my diet as "I don't eat any flesh." This is the most accurate way I can tell it to someone who doesn't know what the ambiguous term "vegetarian" means to me. I don't mean to be rude, but if I say I don't eat "meat," then they say, "Oh, this is chicken/fish/etc." So a statement of "No flesh" usually conveys my meaning, "no body parts" if they need clarification. ;) And "carrion breath" really bothers some veggies - my wife hates it. You don't notice how pungeant some meat really is until you quit eating it. Just like non coffee drinkers can really smell coffee and non smokers can smell smoke more than smokers can. |
I contribute having no cavities and breaking no bones to drinking Milk.
As far as the obese thing, cut back to 1% or skim, or even drink a special Orange Juice with Calcium. There are tons of other ways to get Calcium without milk, but I enjoy it Milk so I drink it. I don't think Milk is unhealthy for you. Surely It is far better than Coke or Pepsi and I don't see the anti-Milk freaks going nuts over those products. |
<font color="#ffccff">TL I am also a cheese-a-holic [img]smile.gif[/img] I was just wondering why babies would do so well if Milk was toxic as some of the anti-milk crowd seem to want to say. [img]smile.gif[/img] I wasn't trying to give you any grief [img]smile.gif[/img] And ain't no one taking my Milk and Double Stuff oreos away from me without a fight [img]smile.gif[/img] Healthy? maybe not, but definately yummy [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>
|
Pritchke, you may have VERY healthy bones, but your CALCIUM ain't coming from the milk. Did you read the science I posted?
Milk = super protein, too much to be digested by your body at once. Excess protein goes to liver. Liver is toxin elimination system. Protein = highly acidic. Liver neutralizes the acid (protein) with a base - which in the body is Calcium. Liver takes calcium first from blood, but only to a minimum (as blood MUST have Calcium) and then from the bones - directly. In the end, for anyone over weaning age, each unit of milk you intake creates a NET LOSS in CALCIUM. Drink more milk, lose more CALCIUM. That simple. The women in my family have a huge osteo problem. The ones who quit drinking milk (as much) on my advice and began taking calcium supplements instead are dealing with it *much* better than those who drink lots of milk in effort to fight the osteo. Enjoy your milk -- esp. with double-stuff oreos (can we say AMBROSIA? :D ), but remember to get your calcium from green leafies, fortified OJ, and other sources, including supplements if you must. |
Here's a euphamism for ya. Most fruits and vegetables are, anatmically speaking, OVARIES! So make sure and get your proper servings of ovaries taday like the food pyramid says. :D
|
Yes, fruit is, by definition, a ripened ovary. :D Which is why a tomato is a fruit. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
|
Is that so? my mum always complain I don't eat too much fruits. now I know what to tell her back. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
|
And what is wrong with someone sticking up for animals. Trying to keep the bar of acceptable standards regarding the treatment of animals as high as possible is a good thing surely?
No I am NOT suggesting humans should put themselves foreword in the line of danger before animals IF it is necessary. But by keeping the pressure on, that the use of dolphins to locate mines, is not something to permanently accept. It should be a stepping-stone until a mechanical device is available. Lets hope that they are working on one right now. PS has anyone heard from Turbovee? PPS I'm stunned by your attitude Timber, at first read I thought you might be fishing for a type of answer, but a reread has left me sad :( |
There's nothing wrong with sticking up for animals, Wellard, and I don't think there is. But, PETA-Freaks switch their brains off when doing so. What about the guy they attacked for putting a wounded bird out of its misery? What about that mink farm they invaded where they freed all the minks only to have fully half of them kill each other on the way out and the other half released into an environment where they are an invasive species?? They give a good cause a bad name.
I don't think it's wrong to eat animals - it is our place in the food chain. And, what you consume (i.e. put into your body) is as personal a choice as who you sleep with - so I don't question those choices (except on the theoretical level) just like I don't question choices on religion (except on the theoretical level). My vegetarianism comes from a loathing of animal cruelty and food safety issues in FACTORY farming (note: the MAJOR source of our food). I do not think it is wrong to ride a horse, either. Nor teach a dog to hunt (though some owners are cruel to their hunting dogs and that's a different situation). Similarly, I do not see it as wrong to teach Dolphins to help in this way. Now, I don't have statistics on dolphin-deaths-by-mines, and I can't speak completely to this issue without that information. But, I would bet these dolphins live in the lap of luxury. Dolphins don't cooperate very well when they aren't treated very well - they are simply too aware of their circumstances. ;) And, is a machine better? If the dolphin is treated as a partner and friend and treated well by its (I hate this word with animals) *owner*, then isn't it the best symbiosis? I mean we're talking cooperation here, not death-by-longlines. I know that my Ranger D&D PC would never give up his wolf for a mechanical contraption. ;) |
<font color="#ffccff">
TL, just a comment about Military Dolphins. It takes years to train them and thousands or tens of thousands to keep them healthy and well fed. That being the case, the military is as careful with them as they are with their Fighter Pilots and other valuable human resources. There are not a lot of dolphin casualties since they don't possess any of the characteristics that anti-ship mines sense to cause them to explode. Naval Mines are triggerd in several ways, magnetic field disturbances, pressure waves or direct contact...Dolphins don't create pressure waves the way ships do, they do not have a magnetic signature (being organic) found in ships and don't need to touch the mine to locate them since their sonars are so acute. Contrary to what people see in certain hollywood movies, dolphins aren't sent out as crack suicide squads bearing bombs on their back to self destruct. That kind of insanity is reserved for the fanatical two legged types. There is however a real effort being made to develop mechanical means for doing this job...not just out of humane concerns but out of cost concerns...dolphins are expensive to keep.</font> |
Quote:
Not forgetting as a leader on this board, on animal and environmental issues, people who respect your views as the most informed will have read this "PETA freaks" thread and may come to the conclusion that all PETA actions are crazy *"Why even Timber thinks so"* I know you can't and should not be held responsible for what others make of your views, but maybe it is worth keeping in mind [img]tongue.gif[/img] Next issue [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] I'm quite sure that the dolphins are treated better than anywhere else in the world where they are working for humans. Also, as I have not heard otherwise, I am prepared to accept that there has been no known dolphin deaths regarding US minesweeping. However this does not mean that putting their lives in danger when there might well be a better mechanical alternate is acceptable. It is a cause to keep our eyes upon, and pressure the US to come up with an alternate.</font> |
Just so people can access the views of PETA without taint and with an open mind here is a link.
http://www.peta.org/alert/automation...tem.asp?id=686 |
Quote:
Edit: Wanted to ammend that I hold MOST animals on a level below that of MOST people...there are exceptions...</font> [ 04-15-2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ] |
Fair points, Wellard. My view *is* skewed on PETA, and organization which my wife was once a member of. We had a friend in law school who interviewed to be a PETA lawyer. She got in an argument with one of the more known leaders there during the interview. Apparently this leader, whose name I do not know, and her disagreed on *which* animal causes were worth championing - with the leader coming down on the side of championing the causes of "cute" animals (which tugs the heartstring more, and is thus better politically for such a grass roots organization - no pun. ;) )
Like I may have mentioned, they have some good points. I like lettuce ladies. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] I married one. I like their view of the health side in most instances - though I *am* aware they are willing to skew the truth some (e.g. there is little argument that fish is very health - so long as there's no bioacumulated crap in it [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] ) But, I will accept that contaminating the jury is not fair for me to do. ;) Personally, I support The Humane Society these days. ;) Finally, let me thank you for encouraging me to use the "heee" smiley, which certainly has a personality all its own, and is simply often more appropriate than :D , [img]smile.gif[/img] , ;) , or [img]tongue.gif[/img] . [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved