When I went to high school we were forced to read George Orwells 1984. Looks like its actually beginning to take shape. If this article is true (and Im afraid it is) Big Brother has arrived. http://www.guerrillanews.com/government/doc953.html

There is a link down the page to here. http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress00/kerr090600.htm

Feel your rights being invaded? I do. I dont like it one bit. Ive known for years that the Federal Government has been able to do this but its just now becoming public knowledge, and the Government is finally admitting to it.

The Government is a machine and now that its up and running Im afraid theres nothing we can do to stop it.

And some people still wonder why the US Goverment wants to take firearms away from its citizens. Hard to kill a tank with rock and a sling.

Remember Tienamin (sp?) Square.

Whos next?

To me this looks more like slanted journalism (aka yellow journalism) Until I see the facts from a different viewpoint I won't believe it.

erm alot of it has been true for a while, if you say certain keywords in transatlantic emails its picked up on and read (the keywords are fed through an automated system if enough are in one email they then go to actual people who will check to make sure its not a terrorist threat or the like) and certainly forums that are highly political are now closely scrutinised, i know someone who was arrested by the feds for posting a jokey comment about killing bush on the Fark forums, the story should still be about somewhere, its very amusing, unfortunately very true, glad i dont live there [img]tongue.gif[/img] this forum for the moment being rpg wont have any interest so is likely not scanned, but fark certainly is, so you can test the theory if you like, go and post highly anti-bush or american statements on it and if you live in the US chances are they will come round, but be warned i am NOT joking , if you do it then you'll face the consequences, and the guy i know had two hour grilling from the feds before they realised he was joking and let him go, he was dragged out of work for it too.

dont think there will be a total lockdown on "bad" things though too hard to maintain the internet like that.

I also doubt they have the manpower or time to check out every joker who posts anti-Bush statements.

<font color="#ffccff">E.D. Find a better source of news dude. That site is obviously NOT an unbiased nor objective reporting agency. It sounds more like disaffected highschool or college boys. </font>

The CIA has admitted (on TV) that they scan an average of 4 billion emails per day for keywords like bomb, attack, poison ect.

Ive known for 17 years that the FBI has been able to listen to every word you say through an exsisting phone line----- and you dont even have to have a phone ATTACHED to the LINE.

If you read BETWEEN the lines on the second link they are only admitting to PART of what they have BEEN able to do for years. Its just that the Government is now tryig to make it publicly acceptable.

It is NOT acceptable.

This is worse then the Censorship that began in the 50's. The Honeymooners are dead. I Love Lucy wasnt real life. They bleep out words that kids use every day at school.

The FCC is where it all started. Why else would they have created the FCC? Big Brother is taking the spotlight now folks. Its gone from Censorship to COMPLETE CONTROL.

I for one am extremely pissed off.

Your so called encrypted and safe, secure mobile phone calls have been hacked and listened to by the government for YEARS.

Now if I can just find the link.......

Magic, you dont seem to have read the second link. Thats the FBI press statement concerning this subject On the FBI's website. Notice the .gov at the end of it. But make sure you read between the lines when you do read it bud.

they might not check everyone out, but as i know someone who was physically pulled out of work by two feds to answer questions just cos he jokily posted how he wanted bush dead (and it was so obviously jokey cos i read the original thread) im pretty certain i know what i believe, its a fact, it happened and i cant imagine hes an isolated case.

I have read the article and I must say I agree with Aragorn the Wise. This dose not sound like impartial reporting.

Incidentally, in the U.S., it has been against the law to threaten the life of the president for quite some time; Well before the Internet came along.

<font color="#ffccff">Well yes, I was obviously refering to the GNN site. I have seen them...and their slanted views before. The .gov site is a good one, but again I think it is much ado about very little. I guess only time will tell. It is good to keep your eyes open, but I don't think this administration is out to turn us into apolice state. </font>

<font color="#ffccff">Grungi, in the United States, it is against the law to issue threats of any kind against the president or other chief executives, this is not a new law and has been around a long time. Do NOT do it even in jest, it is like "jokingly" telling a stewardess that you have a bomb on board the plane and will get you in trouble every single time.</font>

[ 01-14-2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="#ffccff">E.D. You may not have heard about Echellon, the system and others scans billions of messages and conversations every day....however if you thinkt he FBI or CIA or the entire government has the man power to skim even a small percentage of those you got to do a reality check man. The computers scan for suspect words, and phrases and then alerts a person to look into it...the filters have to be pretty tight to even keep that manageable.</font>

yeah but it was blatantly not a threat, i cant remember exactly how it was worded but anyhows plenty of people on this forum have said the same kinda things, as this forum isnt scanned they havent been dragged up, anyhows proper threats thats fair enough, but this blatantly wasnt, wasnt even said in a deadpan way, was said quite clearly on a jokey thread, if you said to a stewardess with a big grin on your face "hey i gotta bomb here" she'd probably laugh (maybe not in the current climate but i think you see my point, its how its said not whats said)

anyhows my point was i know someone that was questioned over it, its all there on fark the whole story, so people who doubt the validity of what the federal government is doing, stop doubting, its hard fact that they do scan forums and emails and is also hard fact that they react on it if not all of the time at least on some occasions.

so btw if it was against the law he could have been arrested for what he said, but he wasnt, suggesting at least the feds who dealt with him had some sense about them and realised it was a joke.

before anyone says anything i meant SOME forums and SOME emails, its automated first like magik said and only followed up if certain criteria are met, so dont go off at me saying im generalising again [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Fair enough my friend. But theres a major difference between our generation and that of our grandparents. We have a huge wealth of information at our disposal.

Another difference is we dont blindly believe everything the government the feeds us like our grandparents did. "Why would they lie to us??" We dont bite hook line and sinker.

The government has been lying to us for decades. Roswell, JFK and the single shooter. Oswald was a patsy. Agent Orange. They tried to deny that too. The Media exposed them. How many more times will they lie? Probably millions. What about the Wacko in Waco? The Gov tries to maintain that they never fired a shot on the night of the assault. Ive seen the infrared video tapes of the night. They didnt WANT those people coming out alive. There have been too many instances where they tried to cover their own @$$'s. And they supply disinformation because they know the general public either really doesnt care enough to get pissed enough to get involved or that they will be given false information when they try to research it. Just like the crap on the .gov link.
they tell part of the story but nowhere near all of it.

Yes the guy who wrote the article had an aggressive and biased attitude. I would have too if I had written the article.

They change something slowly so as not to alarm the public. Next thing you know it WILL be a police state. Its been heading that way for years. Now they have the "terrorist" excuse to implement it.

10 years is going to make a HUGE difference in what you now call "Freedom."

They dont really need "manpower." They have huge computers to do all he scanning for them. They have computers that decipher code. What about all those huge Kray computers that take up entire city blocks? They aren't just capable of making astronomical calculations, they're computers and they can be programmed for specific tasks just like the ones we're on.

I dont recall saying anyone was generalising and if someone mistook me, you have my apologies.

Its just that this subject has been looming and growing for years. Now they admit to doing it.

In the .gov press statement the representative says "we need the help of the local ISP's staff in order to implement this..." yada yada yada.

No they dont. They can install anything on a server any time they want and they know it. The government has the BEST hackers. Thats how they catch the amatuers, and the Pros alike. ISPs wouldnt even have a clue something had been installed on their servers.

Like I said, read BETWEEN he lines and then youll be closer to the real truth. Use your imagination and you probably wont be too far from that truth.

I believe that one of the main points, in the second article, is that the Internet is being used to carry out crimes. Please correct me if I am wrong: cars are used to carry out crimes, a good pair of running shoes are used to carry out crimes, books and libraries are used to carry out crimes, and so on. Dose the government “watch” all of these purchases and places? Probably not.

So, to me, “because it is used to carry out crimes” is not a justifiable reason to put this program into use.

wasnt meaning you earthdog , was a general statement not aimed at anyone on this thread, just in previous threads i was accused of generalising (i wasnt just didnt make it clear i wasnt) so im making sure people know where i stand so i dont upset anyone [img]tongue.gif[/img]

homer - thats a superb point i havent even considered before, im gonna use that one in future [img]smile.gif[/img] (though i can see some counterarguments to that one)

btw the government DOESNT have the best hackers, the best hackers are independents (but not the ones who do it to criminal end) and the best hackers come from asia, germany, the US and the UK the government does have some very good hackers, way better than the normal kiddies who cause the hacking problems in the first place, but the truly best ones are those who just do it because they can, have no final objective save to be well recognised and "famous"

You can add the cover up of the slaughter of 4000+ unarmed taliban prisoners in an area called Dasht Leilie (sp?) in the Afghan desert involving American special forces to your list. Just watched a film on SBS exposing it.

I have been hearing alot about this crack down on the net in the US. Microsoft i believe want to place a chip on you motherboard, i cant remember alot of the details. IIRC it did something like this: It will only allow your comp to work with a legit copy of windows and a hardware config defined at manufacture. It also would block any unauthorized material from working (illegal mp3s etc) - by shutting down etc. A list of this unauthorized material would be downloaded every so often. MS/FBI would also have backdoor access to this chip.

Interesting. In Britain it's against the law to threaten anyone's life!

well i think you can say "ill kill ya" (and mean it) to a policeman and not have a problem, its under "threatening behvaiour" which is an open to intepretation law, so if he was having a bad day he might do something about it, but the majority of the time they hear that kinda thing all day long so its not acted upon. I seen plenty of drunks get away with that before [img]tongue.gif[/img] (special dispensation for beer probably [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

Despite the questionable credibility of the source, there is a scary thing to notice that is afoot here.

We are losing our right to privacy.

While championing our arms and our right to say what we damned well please, we are forgetting that everyday we lose more privacy. The gov't isn't taking it. No, we're parsing it out in small pieces every time we are cookied, tallied, scanned, spammed, linked, popped-upon, and routed.

Corporate America is insanely interested in amassing information about us to market its wares and the internet has created a never-before-seen combination: users oblivious to being watched and monitored, plus programs that can do the monitoring and watching of millions of bits of information per second, plus inexpensiveness of implementing the system.

Orwell will not be the model our loss of privacy follows. The government won't take it - the Corps will pay us next to nothing to walk away from it in bits and pieces.

Then we'll have no defense when the gov't wants to come in our bedrooms. :(

dont worry clinton came into peoples bedrooms for a while i think ;) oh thats not the same kinda thing is it [img]tongue.gif[/img]

sad thing is, you see in films of the future where big corporations rule the world, i can see that happening, atm the corporations know so much about people from marketing information, they have massive financial clout, and have bought up huge areas of land, they are extremly powerful, just imagine bill gates as the next world leader [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=lime>T.L. That has been happening for decades dude, nothing "new" there. </font>

Lets test it out!! What would happen if you sent a gibberish email that just contained the key words they were looking for. something like this:

I wonder if the men in suits would come and take you out of work?? If anyone else wants to test it let me know. We can send each other gibberish and then just sit back and wait for the feds to show up.

Precisely why I made this thread. But i disagree about the Corporations doing it. If thas the case the Gov. ENABLES them to do it with the passing of its laws. Either way, Its the Gov that permits it.

Simple fact of the matter is that since WW2 the Gov. has had a thing about espionage. Now its just directing its focus inward instead of toward Russia (Formerly the USSR) or China or whereever. They have the perfect excuse to monitor everything everyone in the entire world does. Terrorism.

Grungi, its illegal to make threats against anyone in the state of Texas. Not just threatening to kill them but even threatening physical violence. ITs bee nthat way for over 20 years that I know of, probably much longer. My brother was charged for "Making terrorist threats against my brother-in-laws younger brother because that creep molested our neice. My brother told him "I'm gonna F*CK you up!!" The puke called the cops on him and they charged him. That was 20 years ago this year. My brother didnt even say "I'm gonna kill you!!!" Charges were later dropped, but still.........

Dragon Lord, you would be absolutely correct. I saw part of the film you are talking about.

And as for part 2 of your post, yes Ive read in numerous places that MS, the FBI and Intel are all pushing for this chip. Seems like an UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICE. Didnt Microsft just get nailed on an anti-trust lawsuit for its business practices?

Theyre going to try to tell me not only will I not be permitted to upgrade my video card AFTER I buy system, but they are going to control WHAT I do with my system and be able to SPY on me through a product that I was FORCED to pay for????

MY A$$!!!!! I'll die before I let them do that to me. I understand the piracy thing. Dont have a problem with that. But what I do with MY system is MY business. All the games I own were legally purchased. None of my hardware was stolen and was likwise legally purchased. My video card cost $485 and if I choose to go out and spend another $1500 on a new one thats MY business.

Big brother is here and hes hiding behind the name Government, Microsoft, and Intel to name a few.

jahanna i tried it but cos im uk noone came round though im probably on some tagged list somewhere as a possible "blank" (terrorist, criminal, madman? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

but seriously if your trying something like that, you'll probably find the message will be picked up but then sent to an actual person who will discard it as obviously bait, if you really want to get someones attention then post an email to someone discussing exactly how your going to kill bush, but be warned you could get arrested for it......

Earthdog, the chips are already on most new computer, and are just waiting for Microsoft Palladium to kick in, their new thing after .net

it will essentially screw you if you, oh say buy a game, then play it on your computer, then purchase a new comp, or significantly alter your factory configuration, ie upgrade several components.

music cd's, games, files, etc will only work on the system they were originally used on, basically deating the entire concept of a network.

my solution is to switch to linux when Micrshaft begins pushing this software on the public, if enough people do, games manufacturers, software companies, etc will have to respond to the new market.

Earthdog, it's really not so much the government. The government is VERY limited regarding privacy - at least in the US. In fact, your rights of privacy against the gov't are MUCH stronger than against other people. Remember, outgoing mail and email is NOT private - mostly because the corporations have been monitoring it for years (as MagiK noted).

In short - privacy is a right you have to protect and you must be alert to not waive. For instance, there is no right to privacy in what you say to someone in a restaurant - so the Corps, the Gov, or whoever can easedrop - even with electronic equipment. So, combining the ways in which you can waive your right to privacy with the inclination we have these days to waive it anyway (as this thread is a fine example), it is simply a right in danger of dying.

Moreover, the gov't sees this problem and (in the US) has fought hard recently to secure our rights of privacy - ESPECIALLY where financial info is concerned. A couple of years ago it passed the Gramm Leach Bliley Financial Remodernization Act. Now, no one's likely heard of that on this board, but I'm sure you've all noticed the "privacy statements" you get from companies you work with regarding financial info (credit cards, banks, etc). Oh, someone mentioned an ATM. As a result of the aforementioned law, the bank cannot use ATM info or sell it to 3rd parties, etc - thanks to at least a little action by the gov't.

In the end, there is no way I fear the gov't will read my email as much as I fear my boss or some company will read my email.

Magik, I have to disagree with you on this. Most things we tend to agree on. However, I DO believe that the government IS the big hairy monster that the survivalists in Montana make it out to be. Im appalled. They openly admit that they are doing this. Nobody bats an eyelash. They admit they are going to RAPE your privacy. ahh who caressssssss. As long as I get my paycheck it doesnt bother me.

This is about to turn into a religious discussion as well because this is the kind of thing Nostdrodamus predicted. Im going to have to dust off my Bible because I could swear it describes this crap in the Book of Revelations too.

Ok so if the government spies on us and we say its ok, then why send a peeping tom to jail for perving on a 12 year old girl through her bedroom window?? The goverment is already doing it. Why shouldnt someone else? Its the principle if not the specific act. All in all it boils down to one simple thing: Its an invasion of our privacy.

And no I dont believe that all the best hackers work for private corporations. There are still somepople out there that work for a very screwed up government simply because they have morals. I know cops that could make $100,000 a year or a hell of a lot more, doing construction. They prefer to think that their job will make a difference in someones life. They think they are helping the members of the community. They know its a job that sucks. They know they wont get rich. But if you pull one kid out of a burning car or house, it was worth it. Save a kid from an abusive father that beats on every person in the family every day becase he CAN.

And in the IT community there are only so many jobs to be had that earn $100,000 a year. Sure, kids graduate college and theyd love to work for Microsoft making $10 billion a year. That job is already taken. There are only so many jobs to be had making that kind of money. The ones that cant get those jobs have to work somewhere, but it doesnt neccesarily mean that they werent in the top of their class. Businesses fail. The government will ALWAYS be there.

at least noones come up with that argument "if you got nothing to hide why worry" cant stand people who say that, then follow it up with "guilty conscience?" they dont seem to get that privacy is something humans need, repeatedly invade it and people tend to go mad or get depressed.

that chip thing microsoft are doing does worry me, im not sure to what extent its going to go, but then again there will be plenty of companies selling motherboards without the chip and remember its not something people want, so selling it is gonna be hard, and linux is getting better n better esp with the gui options you can get on it now, windows i prefer for its flexibility but id jump to linux if i got screwed by microsoft, plus i reckon someone would try their hand at a windows compatible O/S as well. (dont mention o/s warp [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

There was an article about this on slashdot last week. It was about a tax preparations program , Turbo Tax I think, that had to be activated over the net. If you upgraded to a new computer or tried to put it on another machine in your house you were forced to buy another licence for it. The people in the article were pissed because even if all they did way buy a new comp they had to shell out an additional $20 for a new licence for a program that they already shelled out $40 for in the first place. The real kick in the shorts is that unless you have internet access you cant activate the program. That means people like my parents who have their old machine set up, but NOT hooked up to the internet couldnt even get this tax program running.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...=thread&tid=98 <---link to slashdot article.

I am sure that I've posted this before, but in Hungary, where I come from, you have to register each mobile phone purchased to a name and an address and only over 18's can buy them. The police can listen in on any mobile phone conversations they want and know who the phone is registered to. Apparently this is to help stop crime and I've heard of shooting cases that have been solved by listening to thousands of phone conversations of phones registered in the city of the shooting.

[ 01-14-2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]