LOL yall are probably wondering what this thread is about, couldn't think of a better title. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, here's the scenario. I have a new secretary where I work, she's from the Ukraine. Well the other day I was sending out different Christmas cards to people, and this one that I thought was cute I showed to her before I put it in the envelope. It had a picture of a long haired orange cat (a Persian or somesuch - flat nose) with these big antlers on his head. She then said to me that some people would take offense at that picture. Well, totally baffled, I asked her what she meant. She said some people consider "antlers" as akin to a spouse cheating on you, where everyone knows about it but you. I truly have NEVER heard this before! She told me that it wasn't an American thing (which was good since I was sending this particular card to an American LOL). I asked her "well what about the UK? Would that card be offensive there too?" She wasn't sure, but said maybe those in France might understand what she was explaining to me.

Sooo, I'm curious as hell to know more about this, so am sending this question out to all of you. Has anyone ever heard of this? If so, please explain, because I really LOL want to know how antlers and cheating spouses fit together!

Can't you find something similar to post here ? I'll let you know later if i'm insulted. :D

[ 12-17-2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]

No I'm not having any luck finding a similar picture online (it was a Hallmark). Anyway, there was nothing crude or rude at all about it, the cat had a hat on with these antlers on it, in the shape of ANTLERS lol btw. It wasn't the picture, per se, she was referring to specifically, just the antlers. It could have been any picture with antlers on it, and it would have been the same, from what I understand from her. Just so odd!

I'm so curious LOL! I want to know!

Actually, i'm curious too. I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this. Makes me wonder about the sex life of Ukranians. :D

I've seen cards like that. Cute!

Isn't there some thing about having hay wrapped around your horns (or one horn?) that has something to do with spouses? Or actually now I think of it the hay bit I think represents like uxoriousness and that's bulls' horns not antlers, so uh... dunno ;)

I heard the other day that for real reindeer or deer, whatever, the males actually lose their antlers before Christmas, and only the females have them in Santa's time of need. Typical really :D

The only thing that I can think of is that, in classical literature, cuckolds were said to be "wearing horns", or someone "gave them a set of horns." The phallic resemblace is obvious, hence the vulgarism "horny" for lustful. I do have an old card that says, on the cover, "Antlers in the Treetops," and, inside, "Or, who goosed the moose?"

I know Johnny! There HAS to be a story behind it LOL! Although the secy admitted she didn't know where it all came from, it just was a plain fact.

Aelia, yes it was adorable! The hat had the cat's ears flattened to the sides and he looked tolerant, but obviously disgusted at the entire thing LOL! Very smug look on his face! :D

Well a lot of members from the UK aren't online now because of the hour, maybe I'll get some answers tomorrow. Have to keep this thing bumped because I'm too curious to leave it alone LOL! :D Unfortunately, I don't think we have any members here from the actual Ukraine, if we do I've never seen him/her before anyways. We used to have one on the Blueboard, really nice guy, by the name of Kyle. His pic I think is still up on Stealthy's. Still wonder whatever happened to him, he just disappeared. :(

So I'll just sit here and wait.... thinking about antlers... and what catastrophic thing occurred in the Ukraine that made all people look at antlers in an offensive way LOL.

Yes but the thing is, she says it means a Spouse is cheating and you don't know it, but everyone else does. She was very specific on that LOL. ??

LOL!!

Last time people found that offensive, they were wearing Elizabethan high collars and going to the Globe Theatre! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

-Sazerac

Well, LadyZekke, maybe she thought that, by sending someone a card that shows something, (in this case, a cat) wearing horns that do not belong to it, that the sender is trying to tell the sendee that he or she is wearing a similar set of horns/antlers. At least, in the Ukraine.

well from what I known here in the north west of england, it would not be insulting to any one, I asked around here to friends and family and everyone here just thinks its cute.

If a stray cat saw this it would only be very intersted, in a cat's way, how it could play with the antlers right away ;) - I don't care where your from! LOL!

:D ;)

I would not be insulted by this, and would have no idea why anyone else would be [img]smile.gif[/img]

LadyZ, this took me back to the days of struggling with Chaucer and Shakespeare. Throughout history antlers have been the symbol for a cuckold in art and literature.

The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language
Definition

cuckold (noun) [C]

a man whose wife deceives him by having a sexual relationship with another man

cuckold (verb) [T]

If a man or woman is cuckolded, their wife or husband has a sexual relationship with another person.

He came back from a three-month trip abroad to discover that he had been cuckolded.

The explaination of how this came to be:

To wear the horns. To be a cuckold:

In the rutting season, the stags associate with the fawns: one stag selects several females, who constitute his harem, till another stag comes who contests the prize with him. If beaten in the combat, he yields up his barem to the victor, and is without associates till he finds a stag feebler than himself, who is made to submit to similar terms. As stags are horned, and made cuckolds of by their fellows, the application is palpable.

This is also where we get the term 'horny'.

Nobody in the UK would take offense.

[ 12-18-2002, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

Yeah just to confirm that it would not be considered offensive by anyone in the UK (unless they are of Ukrainian origin it seems LOL!) I might be seeing a Ukrainian friend tonight so if I do I'll ask her about that!

In Germany it's a well known expression, but it's not used as a secret hint for someone (at least I haven't noticed so far). I wouldn't try this in southern europe anyway. In southern Italy it could cause a lot of trouble!

ROTFL! I can see where it came from , but I didn't think it was a modern concern (the antler image, I mean! LOL). I've spent time in the USSR (Moscow and Leningrad/Petersburg) and never had that come up.

Actually, the "manu cornuta" is an insult in many contemporary Italianate cultures and also has some occult significance. Feel free to call me a smartass ;)

Thanks oh high throned pastry, I guess that explains it then, although again antlers have NO significance in that way here in America. LOL, but I can see the similarities, re the stag taking a lesser stag's harem. Also, I always wondered where the word "horny" came from, LOL, now I know! It's apparently all about the antlers baby! :D errr. haha! [img]smile.gif[/img]