Well, here is a possible solution:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...=000384#000000

If you wish to join HADB, then please let us know in the recruiting thread (see link) and not in here.

Oh bugger, I thought this was going to be a thread where I could talk about philosophy (I was going to talk about ethical hedonism, since that's my outlook)

Never mind! I don't want to join HADB.

<font color=skyblue>Epona, have you read the link he has up there? his recruitment thread is so sweet, I might join! LOL! Truelly a great recruitment thread, Hiram ....the best I have ever seen!

Everybody on this forum should at least go read the thing.
You don't have anything better to do. ;)

</font>

Amen!

or um... Have some Cheetos!!

or something like that...

Erm, no, one of them was rude to my wife, and I have plenty of meaning to my life otherwise.

Oh. Dear.

One of the cheetos or one of the members of HADB?

Lol Epona, i thought exactly the same too. Actually i keep searching for moments when i can discuss my philosophy with other ;) :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

One of the leaders of HADB. Enough said.

I like a bit of ska, but I've never heard of him. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Very well, Epona. Let's discuss Ethical Hedonism.

an excerpt from http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/h/hedonism.htm

"Ethical hedonism is the view that our fundamental moral obligation is to maximize pleasure or happiness. Ethical hedonism is most associated with the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus (342-270 BCE.) who taught that our life's goal should be to minimize pain and maximize pleasure. In fact, all of our actions should have that aim:

We recognize pleasure as the first good innate in us, and from pleasure we begin every act of choice and avoidance, and to pleasure we return again, using the feeling as the standard by which we judge every good. [Letter to Menoeceus]"


**************
Since I have become quite carnal and backslidden from my Judeo Christian upbringing, I have adhered to a loose hedonistic lifestyle. Much of it is a here and now kind of application. Anyone wish to continue?

Disclaimer - This is meant to a incite some thought provoking discussion of the philosophy of ethical hedonism as opposed to the application of the same thereby keeping it within the limitations of a family forum post.

[ 12-04-2002, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Hiram Sedai ]

Larry - I will go read the thread in a minute!

whacky - looks like we're just getting started on the philosophy, come and join us!

Lanesra - [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Hiram - good on ya mate! And yes, I will keep it 'family viewing' ;)

Well I would like firstly to dispel the common misconception that hedonism is about seeking one's own pleasure at the expense of all else. The quote you mentioned is a good one, "our fundamental goal is to maximise pleasure or happiness". Note this does not say 'our own pleasure or happiness' although that is an important aspect.

It is rather that one wishes to reduce the sum total of misery in the world, so aims to increase one's own pleasure thus in a small way reducing the sum total of misery. But this is not done by treading on other people, rather the case that spreading happiness, starting by being happy oneself should be the goal, and acting in such a way as to impact positively on the people around you.

Nor does it mean seeking momentary pleasure at the expense of more long-term happiness. It is within the bounds of ethical hedonism to work hard at something you don't particularly enjoy in the here and now in order that the outcome brings you pleasure or happiness somewhere down the line. As long as there is a positive outcome in sight! Such as, I hate doing the dishes, but I hate living in a mess. Hence I will do the dishes even though I hate it, in order that my life will be happy through having good clean surroundings. Or I will work hard at my job, which is boring, because it may well lead to me getting the job I will enjoy and find fulfilling.

And to go back to the original question of 'is your life meaningless?' Well to the hedonist, yes, in many senses life does not have any particular meaning, as it would to a Christian for example. There is no reason 'why' we are here, and the hedonist would not spend an awful lot of his or her time contemplating such a question. Life does have meaning in the sense of what one can make of it. We are here but for a short time, we only live once, and it is important to make the most of it, and not waste it - this is the hedonists viewpoint.

I'm going to make a statement about hedonism. Ok I'm not,I'll just agree with Epona. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have seen the clans here for quite a while and I would like to know if they are clans to play games together on line, or just something to put in ones sig?

you only live once (far as i know though im sure some people are reincarnated) so whats the point of life? noone knows so no point figuring it out, pleasure is good, we all enjoy pleasure in whatever form so go for it, for me i live life to get the full happiness and joy that i can (avoiding doing it at the expense of others) so i spose im into ethical hedonism, most important thing is enjoying life, why be a wage slave, you dont do it because you want to, you do it because you want to further your enjoyment of life, its solely a means to an end, unfortunately its all in the wrong order, cos your too old to enjoy it fully once you retire [img]tongue.gif[/img] i reckon life is the wrong way round, we should be born and given all the money we'd have earnt by the time were 65 (or retirement age whatever it may be) then live on [img]smile.gif[/img] ah utopia [img]smile.gif[/img]

only thing left to worry about is what happens when i die, well im banking on buxom women, good sex, plenty of internet access etc [img]smile.gif[/img] *crosses fingers*

Ah, but if that were the case you'd have spent it all on sweets and pokemon cards (or whatever the equivalent for your era) by the time you were 5 [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Whereas an ethical hedonist doesn't ponder such questions. A good motto, although it is often used with a religious slant, is "Grant me the serenity to accept that which I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference" Death for all of us is a certainty, and pondering the unknowable, what happens after that, or worrying about death in any way, is not going to change anything. Wondering what happens afterwards is a hopeless venture, and thus not pleasurable in the sense that there is no potential gain or improvement to your life to be had from it. Enjoy every minute of it, and don't worry about what comes next. Yes, ethical hedonism is pretty much incompatible with most religions [img]smile.gif[/img]

I daresay that ethical hedonism seems to be the opposite of most religions. Only the Dalai Lama keeps with the idea of bringing joy to the world by not concentrating on his own happiness. Tough to explain it.

I confess that I never really thought of any sort of hedonism to be altruistic. It seemed to be like a Roman party of sorts.

So, ethical hedonism does not account for an afterlife?

It's not altruistic as such, but it is ethical. You don't do things that will make other people miserable. So yes it can be like a roman party, but keep the noise down for the neighbours' sake!

No afterlife. It's atheistic or at least agnostic, in that there is no belief in deities, higher powers, or spirituality. Life is here and now, no need to try to explain it, or interpret it, it just *is*. Same goes for death. It happens, we know it will happen, try not to have it happen too soon, and don't worry about it since worrying about something you can't know/can't change is a waste of energies best put to other uses.

It's not altruistic as such, but it is ethical. You don't do things that will make other people miserable. So yes it can be like a roman party, but keep the noise down for the neighbours' sake!

No afterlife. It's atheistic or at least agnostic, in that there is no belief in deities, higher powers, or spirituality. Life is here and now, no need to try to explain it, or interpret it, it just *is*. Same goes for death. It happens, we know it will happen, try not to have it happen too soon, and don't worry about it since worrying about something you can't know/can't change is a waste of energies best put to other uses.</font>[/QUOTE]What then, are the similarities between ethical hedonism and existentialism? Lack of a need for a deity, taking charge over one's own destiny...except for that toga party thing, they seem alike to my layman understanding.

Could someone please answer my simple question before returning to this very interesting topic [img]smile.gif[/img]

Wurm, there is a listing of the clans in the roleplaying forum. See one of the posts by the moderator Larry_OHF. You can contact the leader of each clan or even contact Larry_OHF to help you out.

As for HADB, many of our multiplayer people are gone now. Our very basic membership perequisite is the annotation in the sig that you are a member. As we grow, we will have more members who enjoy multi playing but I cannot say for certain right now if this is true.

I hope that answers your question.

id have spent it all on sweets definately by the age of 2 and a half(still do heh [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) but id have been a happy happy baby and then by the age of 4 when all my teeth dropped out id have been an unhappy child and with no money would have drifted into poverty and helplessness, but hey for those two and a half years id have been living it up, and hmm pokemon cards, anyone remember garbage pail kids cards? never collected em, cant even remember what the point of em was, but they were funny i seem to remember [img]tongue.gif[/img]

anyhows i dont worry about what happens when i die, because i look at this way, i either continue in some form - win for me

or i dont continue at all in which case im snuffed out have no conciousness with which to worry, so i wont even know im gone - win for me [img]smile.gif[/img]

win / win situation [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#ff00cc">Well this is a fine howdy do, but since I was dis-invited to join long ago, guess I will just paraphrase a great scholar "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member" :D

Good luck on your Membership drive :D </font>

ROFL

Not bad Hiram, not bad at all :D

Hail to HADB!

Thanks Epona, i do think i will join.
Ethical Hedonism is a new concept for me, so i'm trying to assimilate it. But it doesnt seem to be compatible with my religion.

No my life does not seem meaningless. Even if it did seem meaningless i would give it meaning, a purpose, a dream. Yes i would worry about things and would try to work for that purpose, but isnt that what most people do, i wonder. Yes people do that, but are unique in this regard because of the meaning they give to their lives. Ethical Hedonism is aimed at "enjoying" life while my outlook makes me think "life is short yet very precious, i must do something for the ultimate good, i must contribute to humanity else my life will be invain" ..... and it goes on.
I will probably write more on this sometime later, for i seem very disoreanted at the moment, cant compose my thoughts to speak my mind :(