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I just randomly did a little research on smallpox after I read an article on it. We all know it's a terrible killer disease, but never did I fully understand the depth of the terrible things it does! I don't think I have ever seen a more horrifying disease. The stuff destroys all the skin and membranes of the body from the inside out! A virus that literally tries to flay you alive, and often succeeds! In the worst hemorraghic cases, it causes the digestive tract linings to completely slough off and be expelled! Death(thankfully) always comes shortly after this due to extreme blood loss. It's hideous, heinous, and cruel beyond belief! Any civilized person wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy! Add that to the fact that it is highly contageous and nearly uncontrollable. There are places that would use this as a biological agent?! I can't imagine the kind of person who would even consider it! Add this to the fact that we are vulnerable now. There is only a small amount of vaccine left in questionable condition. The amount of death this disease could cause right now is unthinkable! The vaccine is also good for only 10 years or so. Even I, who has been innoculated three times, am probably vulnerable at this point. I want my son vaccinated, but there is no way to do it at this point.
Interestingly enough, humans aren't the only ones to have poxes. Many animals have their own versions, including insects. They are every bit as terrible in nature too. Soft bodied insects are literally reduced to puddles of goo! All I can say is: [img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img] [ 12-04-2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ] |
Ebola does the same as far as I know.
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why else do they call it a Pox?
I still say there are worse ways to die... |
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Only 30% of smallpox victims died when the disease ran rampant. |
Smallpox is a good place to start when trying to control the explosion of humanity. Disease is one of the ways that nature weeds out the weak. Unfortunately humans discovered medicine and now the weak and useless are over running the planet.
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Still, there is alot of illogic within your line of reasoning. You seem to make the assumption that 'nature' is some sort of conscious entity that makes efforts to 'control' populations and 'weed out' the 'weak'. All four of the concepts in '' would be open for debate. [img]smile.gif[/img] Also, define 'medicine' for me if you will, and we'll see if your definition stands up to the socratic method [img]smile.gif[/img] Also, much of the time it is mere chance as to whether humans will die from such a disease. Nothing to do with fitness or weakness. The prevalence of particular immunological devices within the body vary from person to person, from time to time, from generation to generation. 'Fit', 'healthy' and 'strong' individuals are just as much at risk from these types of aggressive micro-organisms as anyone else. ps: The 'grumpy old hunter' thing was an 'affectionate jest' as opposed to a flame. All in good fun :D |
For Lady Z, I dont have any specific group in mind. It is just that from a purely biological standpoint in nature the smartest and strongest survive while the weaker and dumber are culled by disease ,predator or enviroment. Humans have no natural predators except for age and disease. Thanks to the advent of modern medicine humans dont have disease to keep their numbers in check , so as a species we breed out of control and over use out enviroment.This causes both pollution and in some countries starvation. Without enviromental controls on humanitys reproduction recessive and abnormal genes surface and are allowed to flourish. Things like this will eventualy weaken us as a species, subsequently causeing us to bring our own biological downfall upon us.
For Hierophant, it aint easy being grumpy ;) |
Bah it's too late for me to respond fully. But I see things a bit differently than you, although at the same time understand what you are saying as well.
I personally think that one of the things that separate us humans from animals is the fact that our weak can survive, as it is our minds in many ways that makes us the dominant species. We have no pointy teeth or claws or rough skin with fur. We really as humans ARE a weak species in and of itself. But again physical attributes are only a small part of what keeps the human race alive. I do not wish to see any disease kill any humans, it would be a sick thing to think "oh good we've cleansed". And to end, the part I do agree with you about is overpopulation. I do think that something should be done about how many children people have. The planet is only so big, and we cannot rape it's resources in entire. Everyone should be able to procreate, but so many have 5 or more kids, and a lot of people have kids simply because they cannot afford birth control (accidents). So we have a huge population of humans, and yes, if it continues to grow, when the planet isn't growing, ultimately we will end up destroying all our resources, hence destroying ourselves. So I'm more for prevention rather than annihilation, if that makes sense [img]smile.gif[/img] |
All right, so maybe we are "too smart for our own good" sometimes. Societal order, tools, and intelligence are all part of what makes us a superior species. Even the weakest of us can easily overcome any predator or situation with tools. We can harness the surrounding environment to make anything we need for almost any situation. With a motorized vehicle and firearms we become the most deadly predators on the planet! No other creature can boast such strengths!
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Societal order? Hmm it's nothing new and surely not invented by human beeings. Tools? Ok with that.
BUT intelligence????? Homo sapiens sapiens will be the first being on earth capable of erasing itself from exactly this world. And IMHO he well manage to do so due to the total lack of intelligence. I'm not sure if I'd like to be the most powerful predator. But I'm quiet sure we are not superior - instead I agree with Ladyzekke humans are dominant. |
To get back on topic, the pox viruses are some of the most advanced known on the planet. In comparison to most viruses, they are huge and contain a lot of genetic material! They steal genes from their hosts. They found some genes in smallpox viruses that originally came from rodents. This suggests that the virus may have "hopped" species directly from vermin rats a long time ago. The way the virus propigates is quite advanced. The host cell produces more virus. Some of these virus have propelling tails. When they contact the cell wall, the cell wall is stretched into a tube leading to the next cell instead of immediately broken. This protects the virus from the immune system. Eventually, the cell breaks and releases the standard, non-tailed viruses for dispersion through the bloodstream and air. Whether a person survives or not can be dependant on where the virus enters the body and how much virus the person gets. If the virus gets into the lymphatic system first, it can shock the immune system and cause a diminished response. In these cases, the pustules are not formed and the disease is almost always fatal. The skin gets a blackened, bruised and blood blistered appearance as it's destroyed. Before the unfortunate victem dies, the skin usually falls off over large areas and there is a lot of hemorraghing. Known as "Black pox". Like I said, horrible.
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It doesn't matter if you want to be a predator or not. The point was that you could be if you wanted to. The ability to do it is the indicator of your species dominance. Eating any animal based product is an indirect predatory act. Without modern agricultural developments, it's impossible for us to subsist strictly on wild plants. We cannot break down cellulose, the key energy source used by grazing animals. Green leafy veggies are mostly passed through our digestive tract. We ARE omnivores and meant to eat more animal proteins in the absence of sugar/fat containing fruits/seeds/tubers. The fact that we cannot digest cellulose, but so readily can convert animal proteins into sugars (and subsequently fatty acids) is an undeniable indicator of our hereditary dietary needs. As far as superiority goes. If your point of view includes the matter of our success as a species in varying environments and in competition with other species, then we are indeed superior. |
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[ 12-05-2002, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: WillowIX ] |
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The thing I dont understand is why there havent been millions of smallpox vacines produced in this now over year old terrorism scare. Its not that hard to do really. |
I don't have to add very much to Seraphs post. But...
Sir K.: you are talking about varying environments. Uhmmm in my opinion we are not varying - we are destroying it, aren't we? And then do we have to compete with other species? I don't think so. It's more that we should try to survive and it doesn't seem to me that we have the right plan to acomplish that. Sometimes I'm a pessimist. I'd be glad if somebody could proove me wrong ;) |
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The thing I dont understand is why there havent been millions of smallpox vacines produced in this now over year old terrorism scare. Its not that hard to do really.</font>[/QUOTE]Ants and bees? I suppose you can compare them to us if you want to. If you do, they possibly have first dibs on the social order. I seem to remember reading a fictional book once about a society of hive minded humans that was pretty creepy. ;) Bacteria? Not so! With the proper tools, we can survive almost any environment. From the complete vacuum of space, to the high pressure of the deep seas. We can augment our senses to see things outside the ability of any creature. Tools can allow us to do anything we want to. No other animal has such a broad range of adaptability. Actually, the smallpox vaccine is quite crude, if effective. It's a weak virus very similar to virulent smallpox that's cultured in calves. Basically, you get a scratch from a cluster of small needles dirtied with cow blister pus. If it wasn't for the existence of this varient of the virus, we'd have problems. If someone manages to mutate the smallpox virus, vaccinations will no longer be effective. |
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And to add to the other discussion: humans DO have natural predators: grizzly bears, lions, crocodiles etc. any of these would not hesitate to attack a human if they were hungry. But people are right that humans do not need to consider any other species competition, of course not, technology cancels out any physical advantages other species have. I agree somewhat that medicine defeats nature's way of "the strong survive" but as people have said it is not always the strong and brainy people that have the best immune systems ;) Also, humans have birth control which means if used properly, there doesn't need to be a "strong survives" because we can all live in equilibrium with our environment. If every couple had no more than 2 children there would be no problems. Why aren't 2 children enough for some couples? I don't know... [ 12-05-2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ] |
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