Is it just me who has a problem with people coming up with mathematical *theories* on how the universe was created and the human race came to be (But not actually being able to prove it in practice) and then saying "God cant exist because to have created the entire universe He (Read: A supreme being of mind-boggling knowledge and power :D ) would have had to do something that *we* cant do so therefore he cant exist!" Yes that’s right, people are coming up with theories and creating things that previously didn’t exist like an 11th DIMENSION(!) to explain things they cant possibly prove wrong with any form of non-confusing maths jargon that actually makes sense!

Anyway, what do you think about all this? (If it actually made sense...)

Well, if you think of god scientifically and evolution, We as humans acended from bacteria, to monkies, aped/chimps, to finally what we are today. If you take that further, then being a god or being with god is the next step in the evolution chain. Because if god can't exist because he can do something we can't, then we can't exist because we can do something a bacterium can't.

And considering math is made up by evil little greeks who only discovered it for their own purposes, I doubt that math has to do with god.

I think it would be very interesting if it made sense... Mind you extra dimesions have been used to explain a lot, like the odd actions of light and the rest of the electro-magnatic waves.
Mind you if want to use math to disprove god it can be done by simple adding and subtraction.
I love to of been alive on the 22nd of October 4004BC by the way. [img]smile.gif[/img]

How, theres no proof that he does or doesn't exist. And yes, I would love to live there because all those mathematicians kept their stuff pretyt much a secret to the general populice! I wouldn't be tortured by it anymore!

LOL, well people say God cant exist because "we all evolved from bacteria and therefore God cant have created us" how much intelligent and religious thought did they put into that?! Do they think God is too dumb to plan for our evolutionary pattern to go like that?!

One of the Manifestations of God (E.g. Moses, Jesus) once said that this is not the only relm of man or something like that. Therefore it is entirely possible that other dimensions exist under the same (and only) God!
Er... why alive in 4004BC? Oh no... not the whole "Birth of humanity thing is it?" You know the Adam and Eave story is only a metaphor don’t you?

At a party a friend and me got into a MASSIVE discussion about God and countless other things, and you know what... neither of us actually got anywhere! We just kept on going around in circles! Because to prove if He exists you have to understand God and to understand Him is impossible for our small human minds to comprehend, and even if we could; if we understood him we would become like him (gods). Therefore, like Lilarcor said, it is impossible to prove either of the beliefs.
*Takes deep breath*

Oh, 4004 BC.. i thought it was 404 BC...
But Adam and Eve could have existed back then and live as long as they did, for although there were the same diseases around, all were dormant but if they had around 50 kids, each marrying another and having another 50 kids, you'd get a lot of humans sooner or later.

I think you mean so called messagers of the Jewish and its desended faiths. Frankly I can't help but see some grain of truth in the ancient paythons.
As for the "Birth of humanity thing", If you mean that once the dates of the bible are added up and set down, the time that the aforemetioned god greated the world was the 23th of October 4004BC and that the world and everything if in far older then that, then yes you are right it is the "Birth of humanity thing".

YES! And though some might start going off Darwin's theory, that was only made up because Darwin noted 2 similar turtles on 2 near islands in the pacific and came to the conclusion that they have similar ancestors.

YES! And though some might start going off Darwin's theory, that was only made up because Darwin noted 2 similar turtles on 2 near islands in the pacific and came to the conclusion that they have similar ancestors.</font>[/QUOTE]Er... I dont know this theory you talk of but I suppose thats what im pointing at. No insult intended but I see that you're from Utah and as far as I understand it that it is full of Mormons (and free of coffee from what I have herd *shudder*) are you a Mormon? (just curious)

It was more complated then that. He drew upon his life as an animal breeder and the work of a man called Hutton who have arrived at the two key ideals of Darwin's theory 60 years eariler to reach the ideal that natural selection and radom mutation helped life become what we know today.

You really want to believe people who come up with theories that are eroded by the passage of time, overthrown, rejected, revamped or even forgotton, nah i dont think you do. Im much better off believing in God, you should never underestimate the power of faith [img]smile.gif[/img] And you know to make God God he would have to be something a lot more special than us, people just cant say that he doesnt exist mathmatically, surely he is not included in the bounds he made for us, and do we even know what is his manifestation ? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Eh?

Whacky I a lot of people you just describe religion. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yes I can say he doesn't exist I just did and so did a few billion others who either have no or have another faith.

Why is it we never have discussion about the existance of Budda, Allah or other beliefs.

Does Ganesa exist?

[ 11-09-2002, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Gabriel ]

[quote]Originally posted by Gabriel:
[QB]Well because Christanity is the largest and most contraversial religion. Also those "supreme beings" are all stemmed from the manefestations of gods teachings. Does it matter what name God goes by, be it Allah or God (ok it matters if it is Satan)? In the end it is all God. I dont know the story behind Budda, He was a manefestation but I suppose the Buddists prefer to worship him more then God. They say Buddism is a way of life and not a religion, but is not all religion just a way of life?

Really? They all come from your gods teachings even the ones older then the jewish ,and it desended, faiths? Only the Cristain and Mulsim god comes form that source.

Oh just so you know Budda is not a god his is.. well they are people who have for a lack of better word become enlightend and go beyond the pervoius mortal coils. They are not worshiped therefore not a real religion.

Well here is a list of times and names of God's manifestations;
5000 BC Unknown (I dont know about this one but thats what I have in front of me)
2000 BC Krishna (Started the Muslim religion I think, but I have a very bad memory of these things I was taught a while ago)
1330 BC Moses (I'll give you a guess what he started [img]tongue.gif[/img] )
1000 BC Zoroaster (Little known Faith compared to many others called Zoroasterism from one of those middle eastern religions, not around much anymore)
560 BC Buddha (Started Buddism)
1 AD Christ (Christianity origionaly then that split into a rediculus number of sects that all seem to hate each other but claim to be the one true religion and maintain that Christ hasnt returned yet)
622 AD Mohammad (I cant believe I cant remember this one, Muslim Faith I think or maby Hinduism)
1844 AD The Bab (Was the first Manifestation of my Faith and kind of cleared the way for the next one)
1853 AD Baha'u'llah (Started my Faith the Baha'i Faith, for some reason many havent heard of it even though it is one of the largest and fastest growing religions in the world)

And just because we dont call Buddism a religion doesnt mean God and Buddha didnt intend it to be. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Krishna is one of many others Hindu gods.

Moses is a profit of Allah and one of the first spoken to the jewish god.
5000 BC Well, Egypt and many many others.

Oh and Buddha is not a god and was never a god, he was a Mortal HUMAN like all humans!

As for the last to two faiths you mentioned never heard of them, any on-line info or such I can get?

Oh just one question how can one god be a manifistaion of another?
Surly one god can not make or be another who beliefs and teachings are different to orginal?
To say that one God created the other can (and is in some) be consider a insult to other religions.

I am GOD. Obey me. I do want not ONE OUNCE of beer wasted DO YOU HERE ME!!!!!!

[ 11-09-2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Lord of Alcohol ]

All hail Lord of Alcohol God Of Beers, Master of the Brew, Ruler of Femeted Yeast.

An 11th dimension might be the answer to where all my pencils end up. I must lose about a dozen every week. I've considered taping them to my clothes, but that would probably look pretty silly. :\

All hail Lord of Alcohol God Of Beers, Master of the Brew, Ruler of Femeted Yeast.</font>[/QUOTE]You are granted unlimited beers for the evening!

Jeffi0
Member # 10282 posted 11-09-2002 09:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An 11th dimension might be the answer to where all my pencils end up. I must lose about a dozen every week. I've considered taping them to my clothes, but that would probably look pretty silly. :\


I cannot be responsible for lost pencils or lost socks in the dryer. :D

Well yes I am a mormon and yes there is coffee in this state.

And it seems to me that LoA needs some english class cause I dont know what he means.

I do want not? You yoda now and now I don't 'Here' you for I don't know where you live.

Errr look below Lilarcor! I'm from North Carolina! Hence the lack of grammar. You are fined 12 beers and arent allowed to watch the Osbournes for 13 minutes.

btw its Lilacor [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I just occured to me that probility doesn't say much for god, I mean take all the god that have existed and any one god has a one in a few thouand (Like I gonna count every single god that even been to put a number here, give me a break) chance of being the right one.

Thanks for the beer.

[quote]Originally posted by Gabriel:

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagorion: Oh and Buddha is not a god and was never a god, he was a Mortal HUMAN like all humans! Oh just one question how can one god be a manifistaion of another? Surly one god can not make or be another who beliefs and teachings are different to orginal? To say that one God created the other can (and is in some) be consider a insult to other religions.

I never said Buddha WAS a god, I said that the Buddists WORSHIP him AS God, Buddha WAS a manifestation of God and not a god himself. Im sorry if there was any missunderstanding.

Lilarcor: I know a couple of Mormons and are good friends with them. One thing I have noticed is that both the Baha'i and Mormon Faiths are INCREDIBLY alike. Strange how they both started around the same time eh? ;)

It's been a long time, but I think I remember that Buddha was just a very wise man. I dunno though, that coulda been some other religiuos figure.

Buddha is not really on person you know they been quite a few buddhas. They are not worshiped as gods and to make it clear to worship something as a god means that thing is a GOD!
Oh and Buddha is not a manifestation of God (with a capital). He was a man who achived enlightent and asented beyond the mortal need.
To claim that the the characters of another religion are just extment of your or is just so........I can't find the word so say just how it make me feel the only thing that spring to mind is a deep mouning shout of Urgisjuytnb!

Mant people think he was just a guy who wanted answers but 2 Manifestations of God have called him a Prophet so im inclined to believe them instead of normal humans.

Buddha is not really on person you know they been quite a few buddhas. They are not worshiped as gods and to make it clear to worship something as a god means that thing is a GOD!
Oh and Buddha is not a manifestation of God (with a capital). He was a man who achived enlightent and asented beyond the mortal need.
To claim that the the characters of another religion are just extment of your or is just so........I can't find the word so say just how it make me feel the only thing that spring to mind is a deep mouning shout of Urgisjuytnb!</font>[/QUOTE]O..... K....... Er... All I was saying is that all the religions I meantioned stem from the same God, not just MY God but everyones. My religion has just been created by his most recent Manifestation. Also just because Buddha didnt claim to be sent by God or a Prophet or Manifestation doesnt mean he wasnt.
Just bacause one religion has a God with 6 or so arms or a fat man doesnt mean they arent mentioning God. I have a simple and (hopefully) non-contraversial name for god; Creation! THERE! I will call God Creation just to make people think im not refering to only to the arrogance or Christianity in thinking that if anyone mentions God they must be refering to Christianity because there is no way other religions could have the same God as us! (In case you didnt notice that last sentence was dripping in sarcasm)

Sorry that like saying to a Cristain that because the Mulisum religion said so Jesus is not the son of god.

You can not impose the thought of one religion upon another it just insulting to the member of that religion.

Sorry that like saying to a Cristain that because the Mulisum religion said so Jesus is not the son of god.

You can not impose the thought of one religion upon another it just insulting to the member of that religion.</font>[/QUOTE]Jesus was not in a way the son of Creation. he was a Prophet like all the others. he may have referd to himself as the Son because that may have been the best way to explain it at the time. Each of the religious teachings given by each of the Manifestations was ment for that time, to solve the troubles of that time. That is why there is so much of a gap and differences in all the religious teachings.

Sorry that like saying to a Cristain that because the Mulisum religion said so Jesus is not the son of god.

You can not impose the thought of one religion upon another it just insulting to the member of that religion.</font>[/QUOTE]Jesus was not in a way the son of Creation. he was a Prophet like all the others. he may have referd to himself as the Son because that may have been the best way to explain it at the time. Each of the religious teachings given by each of the Manifestations was ment for that time, to solve the troubles of that time. That is why there is so much of a gap and differences in all the religious teachings.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, I don't know about that. After all, Mary *was* a virgin.

</font>[/QUOTE]... I see your point.... I appologise for that. Lets say He is the God of any who care to recognise him as such (Not that you have to!)

24 years ago a very good friend of mine went to the top of a mountain 90 some miles west of Xigase Tibet and spent almost 16 months with some guru that was something like 125 years old. anyway in his studies with this old man he learned that the Holy Bible had been altered by the prests in the Dark ages. He told him that the times in the bible that now were written as hundreds of years were really hundreds of thousands of years and that the prests of the times were unable to comprehend that many years because they did not understand anything about time, math or anything else other than what was verbaly relayed to them by others from their Church
The main reason being that most could not read but were good at art and the ability to copy the symbols from manuscripts and pages of books of which many were from the Holy Bible. well should they miss a zero here and there never seemed to mean anything more than just a minor variation in the art work so after a few hundred years of mystakes going by unnoticed and modern priests in the years just after the birth of Christ rewriting the Bible never would believe that what was written was wrong left the Bible the way it is.
This could maybe explain why bone hunters have found the bones of man that date back 750,000 years. But who really knows? only the Dead know for sure and until then I'm not going to let it bother me one way or the other. Try to remember that the Holy Bible was written by man and the only thing god ever wrote was the 10 Commandments and thats the only truth. Or is it?

I never said I was right I only typed what I have learnt and what I believe. Is it wrong to put in my opinion about something that you have put your opinion on on something I had previously said? (If that makes sence) In other words; I have said something, you say something about what I just said, I then reply to what you said about what I said. If it seems to you that I'm saying your wrong then im not trying to, im sorry if I have but if you look in all of my posts you will not see the word wrong being used in such a context.

TheCrimsomBlade: HAHA! Well done! the bible is in fact a giant book of metaphors (that may be a bit presumptuous of me but everyone already disagrees with me anyway so why bother fighting it?) and those metaphors could have been messed around with, words replaced to be more "simple" but in fact cause GIANT problems in the future when people take the book as actual occurances while many of the things in it are metaphors.

Dagorion My post was one of pure sarcasm and I'm sorry I should never of posted when angry. sorry to any it may offended.

MagiK, Thank you so seem to get what I was trying to say across better then I was.

The bibles a novel