This is from the Wahington Post.

Republican mobilization efforts, including President Bush's almost nonstop travels in the closing days of the campaign, boosted overall voter turnout in Tuesday's elections even as the number of voters declined in some traditionally strong Democratic areas, according to an analysis of the returns.

A total of 78.7 million votes were cast on Tuesday, a turnout of 39.3 percent of all voting age citizens, according to Curtis Gans, director of the Committee for the Study of the American Electorate, an independent elections expert. That was a slight increase from the 37.6 percent turnout in the previous midterm elections, in 1998, and interrupted a steady decline in voter participation, he said.

<font color="#33cc33">I hope more people continue to get out and vote. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I think it is amazing and kind of sad that only a little over a third of the eligble voters, vote. :( </font>

[ 11-08-2002, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Me, too, my friend. :(

hey, did you hear about that court case of the kids that think kids should be able to vote?

<font color="#33cc33">Kids, think they should be able to vote? Why? Most kids that I know (the ones that hang aournd my kids) don't seem even a little bit interested in politics.</font>

<font color=skyblue>The week prior to elections, the only thing I had on my answering maching every day was at least one or two recordings, containing negative information about the candidates and very little (almost none) positive promotional material. I was so tired of hearing all that! This has been the worst election ever! The only live person that called me wanted to persuade me to believe in his candidate by asking me what my standing was on abortion. How did I feel about it? Well, I told him I was not interested in sharing my feelings with a stranger on the telephone, especially since I did not know of his intentions in learning my stand. That put an end to him. </font>

LOL, that's funny, <font color=lightblue>Larry.</font> I don't believe anyone called us except it in the local races, and then very seldom. I wonder if it is because you are in a metrpolitan area, and we in a rural.

It is sad when 40% is considered a good turn out. And this is the first election i've missed (slaps self up-side head).

Well, yes, but there is a downside to just wishing that everyone would vote. I wonder how many of those that did not vote did so out of apathy, ignorance, or alienation. How many didn't even know there was an election? Do you really want those people to vote, willy-nilly?

I'm not so sure about that MagiK, I kinda figure Them that take the time to try and find out what is going on in politics, do go out and vote. Them that don't really care to find out what's going on, well I'm glad they don't get off their duffs and vote. I'll take the outcome, even if it is not who I voted for, if the voters take the time to try and find out what is going on.

[ 11-08-2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

I am one of the majority that doesn't vote. Why you ask? Because I lost faith in American politicians a long time ago (and I'm only 22)... I think that for the government to work better, politicians should be paid a lot less and be not aloowed to give themselves raises. This way, only people that want to make a difference will have a chance to be in a position to make a difference. Also, this will free up a good amount of money for other things, such education, defense, and other worthy causes... Politicians are all slimeballs and liars. Why would I want of them representing me? If I wanted one, I'd go to the local prison and find a criminal that is to my liking... Our main two political parties seemed to more concerned with making sure that the other's legislation doesn't get through than with making the US a better place. Of course, many will counter with third party candidates, or the "extremists" as I like to call them because they most often have one main issue that they deal with and say nothing about anything else... I could go on and on, but I won't because it leaves me sick to my stomach. Therefore, I'll conclude with: Why should I vote when all the politicans are basically the same? It won't matter one way or the other.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. Right or wrong, it is what I feel.

I'm not so sure about that MagiK, I kinda figure Them that take the time to try and find out what is going on in politics, do go out and vote. Them that don't really care to find out what's going on, well I'm glad they don't get off their duffs and vote. I'll take the outcome, even if it is not who I voted for, if the voters take the time to try and find out what is going on.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#33cc33">This brings up a whole different issue and that is,
Should Every Adult US citizen be allowed to vote? I wonder aobut the wisdom of allowing every idiot off the street being allowed to affect the leadership selections for the nation. </font>

<font color="#33cc33">You might want to do a little math. Add up the combined slaries of all the senators and congressmen and of the president and the Judicial branch, and you aren't talkin about that much money as far as national spending goes.

Heck the president makes less than half a mil. a year.
The people serving in office aren't getting rich off their salaries. Its the power that gets them, that and kick backs and book deals and contributions.

The Average corporate CEO will make more money than the politicians by far. What might help is to get rid of the idea of political carreers, limit terms and don't just do it on a national level...but this causes other problems....it is a very complex issue and by not voting you are choosing to not even try to make a difference.

Nothing wrong with choosing not to try, thats up to you but if you take that path, you really loose any legitimate excuse you had to complain.</font>

<font color="#33cc33">That brings up "do we want every idiot being allowed to vote?" A thread unto itself I would think [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

On the contrary, I think. If you vote and the system ends up picking the other guy (or gal) you have no right to complain because the system worked. I, on the hand, can complain because I think the system is wrong.

On the salary issue: I think you are right on a national level, but I was referring to the local level as well. Here in Saginaw, Michigan, for instance, we're in the red, yet our representives decided that they should get more money! Now how does that make sense? I think the same happened in the state government, as well. How does that make sense?

One local issue should not embitter you toward the entire political process. IMHO, the lower you go in government (e.g., county commisioners) the lower caliber the individuals. But by opting out of the system, you basically allow others to run your life, pretty much as they see fit. And, if you are not a part of the system, change becomes impossible.

<font color = lightgreen>If you don't vote and I do, then only my vision of how the country should be structured will happen, whether you like it or not. Then, when my politician passes a law you think is unfair and you break that law, you will suffer the consequences.

Believe me, I know all about being cynical about politics and politicians because I have been there myself. Unfortunately, that is the system we have [representative democracy or republic] and that isn't going to change in our lifetime.

If you don't like the country, then vote for the candidate whose views mirror your own.</font>

Hey, <font color=lightgreen>Azred</font> Long time, no see. It amazes me when people take that "all politcians are alike" line in a country that has Cynthia McKillip and Kathleen Harris. ;)

On the contrary, I think. If you vote and the system ends up picking the other guy (or gal) you have no right to complain because the system worked. I, on the hand, can complain because I think the system is wrong.

<font color="#33cc33">I think your logic is flawed, because, at least you tried. Making an effort may not influence the outcome but it does show character and determination to at least make the attempt. To sit back and do nothing is a ..well I won't say anything about it because it wouldn't be complimentry.</font>

On the salary issue: I think you are right on a national level, but I was referring to the local level as well. Here in Saginaw, Michigan, for instance, we're in the red, yet our representives decided that they should get more money! Now how does that make sense? I think the same happened in the state government, as well. How does that make sense?

<font color="#33cc33">I do believe ANY salary increase at any level of government should be directly tied to results. And reductions would be possible. (in my fantasy world that is [img]smile.gif[/img] ) </font></font>[/QUOTE]

<font color = lightgreen>If you don't vote and I do, then only my vision of how the country should be structured will happen, whether you like it or not. Then, when my politician passes a law you think is unfair and you break that law, you will suffer the consequences.

Believe me, I know all about being cynical about politics and politicians because I have been there myself. Unfortunately, that is the system we have [representative democracy or republic] and that isn't going to change in our lifetime.

If you don't like the country, then vote for the candidate whose views mirror your own.</font></font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#33cc33">I agree with you Azred, and not ALL politicians are the same, if you think Dems and Reps. are the same or two sidesof the same coin, then there are third party options. Voting third party may not let you win the election, but the more votes that guy gets shows the guy who won just how important that guys position is...and the guy who won will try to do something to attract the third parties votes...because the two major parties are that close that every vote counts...so if your candidate is green party...then the guy who wants more votes will focus on the ecology.

Hope that wasnt too convoluted.
</font>

<font color = lightgreen>I know what you mean, Attalus. There were many times that I couldn't tell the philosophical difference between Jesse Jackson and Jesse Helms.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And now, a word on politician salaries. According to current Federal law, I could run for the Senate to represent Texas. Unfortunately, I could not afford to do so. Even if I joined a political party and got lots of financial backing for my campaign, once I got into office I'd have to quit my job. This I could not do, financially.
Politician salaries need to be set at a level such that any normal person desiring to run for office could do so and not face financial ruin. As it is, only the wealthy can afford to run for office, so its no wonder people ask why only rich people try to get into office.

If you want to see real campaign finance reform, then have every person who files a tax return mark that little box donating $1 to the political party of their choice. That money can then help fund elections for people who otherwise could not afford it, which will make it possible for more people to run for office. *sigh* That is the one change I would make to the political system....</font>

Here's one I thunked would go good with this thread:

Five surgeons are discussing who makes the best patients on the operating
table.

The first surgeon says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table
because you open them up, everything inside is numbered. "The second
responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them
is color coded. "The third surgeon says, "No, I really think librarians
are the best...Everything inside them is in alphabetical order. "The
fourth surgeon chimes in, "You know, I like construction workers. Those
guys always understand when you have a few parts left over at the end."
BUT....the fifth surgeon shut them all up when he observed,"You're all
wrong ... Politicians are the easiest to operate on... There's no guts,
no heart, and no spine... and...the head and ass are interchangeable."

Of course each candidate says that they have such and such views on a subject, but it seems that they don't stick with it. I'd like to see some honesty, but I don't think it's possible anymore. And that is what makes all politicans the same: They say one thing, then do another. So why even have them talk about issues? And then, half the time they're campaigning for re-election (well, not all of them, of course, but it seems that way sometimes).

Everyone always says to me: find a candidate whose views mirror your own. I'm sorry to say, I've never come across a politican whose views even remotely resembled mine across the board, or even most of the way. There's always good points, then these points that I totally disagree with and outweigh any good points that they may have had.

Okay now, let's see... MagiK: If you vote and things turn out the opposite of what you wanted, whose fault is that? Is it mine because I didn't vote even though you know my view would have been the same as what came about? What if there is no option that I like, and I don't vote? Should I have instead casted a vote for someone I really didn't want in office?... Also, your idea of salary being tied to results is excellent, and something I had thought of before. Will it ever happen? No way. But if it did, it'd be a step in getting people who care but don't vote to vote.

Azred: What about in the case of your picks losing? It is neither my or your structure of government, and we both have to live by it. I can live with that. Even in the case of your politician being the one to pass a law that I do not like. Apparently, enough people in the country think that this guy knows what he's doing, and therefore, I should at least give it a chance before totally condemning it. I'm honestly not a person who goes "That's unfair! I shouldn't have to follow that rule!" As long as everyone does, I'm fine with it.

Attalus: It's not just one example of a government issue turning me off. It's been a build up of things I've seen since I was in school. I wouldn't say something like this if it were just one incident. Things happen, I understand that... You make a good point about how everyone should be able to compete in a political race financally if they so choose. That would help things greatly. Instead of the elite minority being the only ones in office, we'd have people that understand a little better about what it is that regular people do. Political visits have to much of a "well, I guess it's time I go out and meet the peasantry" feeling than they should... Also, you say that because I'm not part of the system that change is impossible? Well, if I were to start a revolution, much like our founding fathers did against England, I could possibly do it. Not likely, of course, very unlikely and highly unfeasible, but it could be done, and I wouldn't be part of the system yet making a change. Not that I would something like that, mind you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW, I'm not against our system of government at all. I think our republic is a good way to go. The problem I have is that right now, we have people that shouldn't be in office in office. We have to change that system so we are better represented, because all we're getting is rich people, since only they really have the resources to fund a campaign (which ironically enough has been a problem since the beginning. Our founding fathers didn't exactly believe in the equality of all people, just the elite). If we can fix that, I think less people would think like me, and the country would be better overall.

Gah, it's late at night and I'm tired, so I don't know how coherent that all was. BTW, I know you all think that I'm stupid for believing in it, but if you don't believe in anything, what's the point? I commend your efforts to reform me so far, but I've seen and heard much, much worse from others. [img]smile.gif[/img] Nothing so far has made me budge from my position, however. But do keep trying; I'd love to find a reason to vote, but alas there has been none so far.