Why is it that the church will hide Priests who molest little boys but wont hide women who do the same thing?? Why is it that when a priest is accused of child molesting the just ship him to a new parish full of victims but the woman in this article got turned in?? How come according to the news, the church is still arguing against a zero tolerance policy for child molesting priests??

I am not trying to justify what this women did, but when I see in the news that priests have molested dozens of kids and just get shipped out of the hot zone I get a little pissed at the hipocracy.

I think the church still has a lot of power and influence, more than we know of.

Would a mere 13-year old boy be already biologically equipped to make a woman pregnant?...

This may not be related to that. The article you put up indicated that this happened at a Christian school, but it doesn't mention the denomination. The whole priest scandal is a Catholic thing (since Catholic priests are not allowed to marry).

But yes, there is a growing hypocrisy in the Christian church. My take is that it's the natural corruption that takes place in a heirarchy such as this. But that is just my opinion. Besides, to a religion that is lacking in priests, it is more important for them to cover up priests than a woman who can be fairly easily replaced.

IIRC, the average age of sexual maturity for a human male is 12. Although it can be far younger.

ON the religious double standards, its not the first time something like this has happened, and it wont be the last. One of the reasons I dont trust religions.

<font color="#00ccff">Umm speaking only for myself, at 13 I would have done anything to find a teacher who would show me the ropes [img]smile.gif[/img] course I might just have been a big horndog at that age too. I guess molestation is a serious issue, but I usually only see it as such for girls. Ive never thought about boys.

I think it is wrong to treat the crimes differently for men and women though. That would be wrong and unfair. Is this a universal human thing or are the customs and laws of other cultures different. I know some middle eastern coutries permit men to take wives that are in their early teens.</font>

I thought you might, MagiK. :D

You should Magik. Molestation for boys is just as emotionally devastating as it is for girls. The later outcome may be different in each case, as women who were molested as a child tend to later lean towards more abuse, and the men who were molested as a child tend to lean towards becoming an abuser. Of course this is generalizing, I'm sure there are other cases totally different. Either way, child molestation affects both girls and boys the same, and it can in some cases affect them for the rest of their lives :(

It seems to be very rare for boys to be molested by women though, but by men all too common...though of course there was a lot of boy-molesting in the Catholic church scandal. I can only really think of two instances of women molesting underage boys (this and M-K LeTourneau.)

You should Magik. Molestation for boys is just as emotionally devastating as it is for girls. The later outcome may be different in each case, as women who were molested as a child tend to later lean towards more abuse, and the men who were molested as a child tend to lean towards becoming an abuser. Of course this is generalizing, I'm sure there are other cases totally different. Either way, child molestation affects both girls and boys the same, and it can in some cases affect them for the rest of their lives :( </font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#00ccff">I suppose, thats what I keep hearing the Psych types saying, just doesnt seem logical to me...but then who said people are logical? </font>

Geeze I had a few female teachers that I wanted too...............Miss Woodrell where are you??????? And I was only in 3rd grade hee. Would I consider myself molested..............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO but it may be guy thing [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Well yes, it seems most molestors are not women, that is a bit on the rare side. But the later effect could turn said molested boy into someone who hates women (you guys picture an ugly woman and not some sexy teacher if you must lol, how would you feel then?) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Maybe a woman who looks like a beholder. :D

LOL, great example K T Ong! :D

I think there's a lot of male-rape (by women or men) that doesn't go reported, mostly I think because men/boys are supposed to be tough and be able to fight and being molested, even when they're little, isn't very 'masculine'. Many more women and girls feel able to report being sexually abused because even though there's still the shame and fear of being raped, there's not the extra shame boys feel about having their sexuality and masculinity questioned. It's hard to know exactly how many women are sexually abusing children for this reason.

Magik whether you would have enjoyed a female teacher 'showing you the ropes' or not isn't really the issue. The issue isn't even about sex and whether it's forced or not - it's about power, and adults having sex with children is all about an inappropriate power relationship and taking advantage of children who aren't mature enough to make rational choices. I don't know the statistics for outcomes for boys who are sexually abused but whether or not there are different outcomes for boys and girls doesn't make it less serious for boys.

Regarding the article, aren't there steps being taken within the church at the moment to change the policies of coverups and moving known paedophiles around instead of turning them in? I don't know much about it but wasn't there a big convention recently about this issue? I've heard also that many groups are saying the new policies aren't enough but I'm thinking what you're comparing is something happening right now with things that happened over the past few decades. It's likely that if this teacher was a male right now he would be sacked as well.

[ 11-04-2002, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Aelia Jusa ]

Speaking as a male at that age all I wanted to do was have sex. Nothings changed sorry [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was :D

But what a sick story, that just disgusts me.

i recall before, that a 11-12 year old girl became pregnant somewhere here. (however both were students). tsk, such an early age. i heard that a girl could get pregnant as young as 9 (but i just heard that before... dont kill me! )

Keep this clean and on topic guys. Hunter, I will leave it to you to watch this thread, and keep everything on topic and not let it turn into a flamewar.

[quote]Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna:

Quote:

Nov. 2, 2002, 4:08PM Why is it that the church will hide Priests who molest little boys but wont hide women who do the same thing?? Why is it that when a priest is accused of child molesting the just ship him to a new parish full of victims but the woman in this article got turned in?? How come according to the news, the church is still arguing against a zero tolerance policy for child molesting priests?? I am not trying to justify what this women did, but when I see in the news that priests have molested dozens of kids and just get shipped out of the hot zone I get a little pissed at the hipocracy.

I think it's merely because the evidence is a bit more difficult to hide if you're a woman, if you know what I mean. Sure, there are "corrective measures", but that's a whole 'nother topic that I don't feel like going into.

Usually when the media refers to a Christian school, they are refering to a school run by a Protestant group. If it is a Catholic school it is referred to as such. Since the teachers in most (not all) Catholic schools are nuns or lay sisters; I'm sure that the article would have stated that as well. In this case I feel confident in saying that this is not a case of the Catholic Church having a double standard in cover ups.
Since so many in this forum who post on religious topics state that they are not Christian I would like to point out a few things. (1)Christians are saved by grace. In other words it is an action of God's love and forgiveness that humans respond to. (2) Christians are not perfect. Those who act like they are perfect are wrong and seriously lacking in humility and understanding in who God is and who they are. (3) Just because Christians fail to reach/attain/or even try to attain the ideals that Christianity espouses; that does not invalidate the faith.
This is a horrible incident that unfortunately happens to often. All of us should work to see that this type of thing doesn't happen again. But we must also realize that these things don't only happen among /with Christians. Yes, sometimes such acts are done by people who say they are Christian. They may really be wolves in sheep clothing. Predators working their way into a "safe" enviroment to perform evil acts. Sometimes it really is done by someone who is Christian. Sometimes these acts are done by aetheists yet we don't start pogroms to get rid of all the "evil godless" people.
I would ask that all forum members keep an open mind and not make sweeping judgments such as "Hitler was a Christian and killed millions so I could never be a Christian."

well to put it back on topic:

i agree what hunter said about the priest... AND isnt the priest suppose to help both person who was hurt by the act as well as the person who did in the first place.. also what happened to priest-client confidentiality. that is why i dont really give my worst confessions, unless necessary, to the preist.

Good post antryg [img]smile.gif[/img]

As antryg pointed out, the media tends to state that a christian school is generally a protestant/non-denominational one while one that is catholic is reported as such so my feeling here is the same as antryg's in that it is non-denominational which hasn't gotten much attention regarding pedophiles.

This is a sick crime and it's really a shame for that boy involved. I mean, even if he was consenting he doesn't realize the implications nor was he really ready I think. Later on he's going to regret it, if he had a choice in the matter, and if he didn't consent I'm sure there's some emotional scarring. That woman should be locked away for the rest of her sorry life. People like that are just sick, perverted, and mentally deranged.

Something else that occurred to me as I was writing this regarding a slightly different religious double standard... Why is it that matters regarding pedophilia in a church don't get publicized (as far as I've seen) when it's not a christian church? It seems like, for whatever reason, christians are getting blacklisted as sicko's while no others are getting named. Granted, there are pedophiles in the christian community, whether they're really christian or not, but I can guarantee that there are others in any of the different faiths, major or minor. It seems like my faith is just getting degraded and bashed in the public eye left and right and causing christians to be named hypocrites and sexists because of the mistakes of a very few. It seems very unfair and prejudiced to me. Just a thought.

-Jafin

I know a woman who was molested as a young girl by an older woman.

I agree with LadyZ on this one. NOW, if it had been a man, I feel he'd have been fired and reported as well.

With all the negative publicity lately with the Catholic priests, they would have been hard-pressed to hide this no matter what sex the perpetrator was. Also, it's less likely the 'Christian' school could just transfer an offender to another school as they are rarely interconnected as the Catholic parishes are.

And yes, there was a big convention to decide what to do with Catholic priests who are sex offenders, but I don't know what the outcome of that was at this time.

Also, Harkolair, I have, myself, heard of females getting pregnant as young as 9 (confirmed), but also heard once (unconfirmed) of a 5-year old girl who apparently 'matured' VERY early (hormonal/chemical imbalance in her little body) and got pregnant by a family member who molested her. I'd have to do some research to find that story again....

Yorick: was this woman molested by an older woman when she was a child?? And was the older woman a teacher or are you getting into the 'general' child molestation issue here? If so, I know of a situation north of me wherein a girl's mother divorced and took up with another woman. Said 'other woman' then molested her 4-year-old daughter...

<font color="#00ccff">Probably a GUY thing, really, I have yet to meet a woman who could really understnad the concept you just mentioned [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Ladies, I know every person is different, and that you cannot generalize on something this serious. It needs to be prohibeted yes, It is like A.J. Said, it really is about power and control.

I will also say that I think that the reason "boys" don't report it as often as "girls" do is not because the boy in question "feels he has to be strong" but is due in fact that he is excstatic about being able to explore the urges he is feeling at that age. In other words, he is probably just having too much fun.

Im not saying its an absolute fact, but it is a supposition that seems to really get rejected out of hand just because it is ..not... tasteful? or PC. or whatever.

I am also NOT promoting any such activity. I am merely speculating on thought processes. If I found out my son were being molested by a teacher, you can bet I would be in her face.</font>

<font color="plum"><font color="red">Hunter</font>,

I have to say that I'm disappointed in you with this thread. You have chosen to "alter" your looks far outside the "societal norm" - yet you get angry when people "judge you" based on your appearance rather than getting to know you as a person.

But then you turn right around and lump ALL Christian denominations into one big melting pot and condemn ALL of them over the actions of a few. You also claim a "double standard" based on a current event as compared to actions that occurred over several years.

For the actions of this school to truly be a "double standard" - THEY would have had to have "transferred" one of THEIR priests/preachers after it was discovered he was having "illicit relations" with young children. That has NOT happened and you have nothing to justify your claim that it would happen.

The Catholic church is the only denomination I know of that has such a "structured heirarchy" and system of "placing" priests in different parishes. It is also one of the few denominations where priests are considered somewhat "untouchable" by the congregation. I can only guess that this is because the priest "intervenes" to God on behalf of the followers. In the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, and Pentacostal faiths...each member believes they can communicate DIRECTLY with God themselves, so we don't NEED the priest to "intervene" for us.

Likewise, if a preacher in one of these denominations WERE to molest children in the church, you can believe the congregation would give him the boot in very short order and the parents would most likely be seeking criminal charges. I'll concede that this doesn't happen everytime and that pedophiles DO exist in other denominations. I know one IW member who left Christianity because her preacher made sexual advances towards her and her parents refused to believe her. The preacher FINALLY confessed his guilt many years later...but the damage was already done. Still, this was a failing of the person's parent's not the church or denomination itself. As far as I know, they were not aware of his actions...and they certainly didn't "shuffle him off to Buffalo" when they found out. The church leaders probably never "investigated" the incident, but that was mainly because the person's own parents refused to believe the incident occurred.

I'm not saying other denominations are spotless, but I AM saying that your generalized statement of a "double standard" is WAY off base.

As some of the others have pointed out, the teacher's conviction may well be the result of the very scandals you mentioned. The public is much more aware that priests and preachers are not infallible or unreproachable - and churches ARE adopting a "zero tolerance" policy for such issues.</font>

I am not condeming anyone. I am just saying that if the church is going to shuffle the men around then they should extend the same courtesy to the women. Last I heard the church was paying all of the attorney fees for the priests involved in the molestation of children. I wonder if they will be paying this womens attorney and court fees?? My real bone of contention is how the men in the church seem to get the royal treatment while everyone else gets treated like a second class citizen.Also, since every denomination follows the same bible that would make them all pretty much the same in my book. Unless they have all rewritten the bible to follow their own economic ends. I mean its like swing set building instructions. No matter how many people read them you still end up with a swing set at the end of the day.

I am not condeming anyone. I am just saying that if the church is going to shuffle the men around then they should extend the same courtesy to the women. Last I heard the church was paying all of the attorney fees for the priests involved in the molestation of children. I wonder if they will be paying this womens attorney and court fees?? My real bone of contention is how the men in the church seem to get the royal treatment while everyone else gets treated like a second class citizen.Also, since every denomination follows the same bible that would make them all pretty much the same in my book. Unless they have all rewritten the bible to follow their own economic ends. I mean its like swing set building instructions. No matter how many people read them you still end up with a swing set at the end of the day.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="plum">We all follow the same Bible, but different denominations have vastly different doctrines.

The Catholics believe that only the priest can intervene directly with God That's my understanding anyway - if any Catholics want to correct that assumption, please feel free. No offense is meant and none will be taken.

I have a friend who is in the Lutheran seminary. According to him, everybody - including ALL other "Christian" denominations and even the "mainstream" Lutherans - are ALL on the Fastrack to Hell.

Still, the primary issue here is the treatment of the Catholic priests vs the treatment of this female teacher - so I'll focus on that.

Most Christian denominations do not have the type of heirarchy found in Catholic churches. Baptists, Lutherans, and all the rest DO "assign" pastors to certain churches, usually away from their hometown. HOWEVER, unlike in the Catholic church, the congregations in the other denominations have every right to "kick a preacher out of their church" if they don't like him.

As I said before, the Catholic church is the ONLY denomination where this practice has been found to be widespread and ongoing...and where there is documentation that the "sins of the priest" have been "covered up" by the church leaders.

You may not think you're comparing apples to oranges, but you are. There are major differences in the structure of different denominations, and the Catholics are pretty much unique in their set-up.</font>

Just because they all follow the same bible doesn't mean everything exactly the same. For an example outside of religion, let's take the US. The US has the Constitution (with all the national laws and such) which everyone follows. But the various states have their own rules too, such as education standards, and other laws. The Christian religion is the same way. The bible would be like the Constitution, and the various denominations would be like the states, each with their own rules.

Just thought this might help.

i see, looks like i was right after all this years.. thanks for that confirmation dragon mage ! [img]smile.gif[/img]