Yes i'm damn truthful while saying that i've always been a perfectionist, why i dont know but i intend to find by discussing with you people! Some say perfectionism is good some say it is bad, i cant say, perhaps you could help! It has given me everything i have to be proud on yet taken away everything that would've been comforting to me. It makes be a bit uneasy at times, sometimes proud, sometimes mean, selfish and angry, it has made me a slave to my performance. Sadly, these were the consequences, yet i have the honour of holding the record of acing every class for the previous 8 or so years, but do i get self-satisfaction, perhaps yes perhaps not? I might be the best nerd or the geek in the school, but i fail to understand why people feel uneasy while with me, has it hampered my social skills, i feel perhaps my soul and spirit are dying; i feel the need to feel yet sometimes i cant ... the arguments go on forever, what i need to ask is :
Are you a perfectionist, if so why if not then why not ?
What had it given you and what has it taken away ?
Is it a good thing or really really evil ?
Awaiting a healthy discussion or some good replies [img]smile.gif[/img]
-Whacky

[ 10-31-2002, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: whacky ]

It all depends. I am a bit of a perfectionist, and it helps drive me to do a good job. On the flip side, however, my older brother and father are both BAD perfectionists. They constantly put down others thoughts and works, because it's not "good enough." I think most pefectionism comes from a lack of true self-confidence, and that perfectionists therefore not only hold others to their same "high standards," but they also are more willing to put down others ideas and creations to make themselves feel better. The moral? If you keep your perfectionism to yourself (lots and lots of humility), then it won't danger anybody. Unforunately, I find that few can accomplish this, and therefore most perfectionists come across as rude, impatient, sometimes egotistical, and un-supportive. Needless to say, that's a bad thing.

<font color="#00ccff">Being a perfectionist is up to you, some people are some aren't the only time it matters to anyone else if you are, is when you go from being a perfectionist to being critical and judgemental about people who arent.
I have tried to adopt the philosophy that untill Im perfect I have no business trying to tell anyone else their work is sloppy...well except for at work, where it is my job to point out mistakes so that they may be corrected [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

Yes I am a perfectionist but only when it comes to things i'm good at. When I write something I have to fix everything people complain about, otherwise i'll just throw it in the trash. Yes I care to much about what other people think. :( Or when there's a fighting game i'm good at I *have* to win. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I don't know why either. Die Kirby die! 22 to 4 victory btw. ;)

At school however I don't waste my time. At my school there were two insane girls (Kristin and Brittany) who *had* to have the highest grade in just about every class. I loved it when I got a higher grade on something than they did, because I would rub it in their faces. Even if it was by a single point. [img]smile.gif[/img] Btw I wanted to strangle them when they said something ridiculous like "I got an 89!" and whine about it all day. [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

Is perfectionism an evil thing? I doubt it. Setting your standards so high can really drain the life out of you. Most perfectionists have been that way for so long they're used to it anyway. Nothing wrong with it I suppose, but if you get a B+ on a test and whine about it i'll shoot you. :D J/k...

Even being perfectionist is considered good, having too much of it is definately not good. Once you went over the limit, it turned into a curse.

Some people will strive for perfection in certain areas but trying to outdo yourself endlessly is not a blessing and it might drives you a little crazy and irritates the people around you.

I am not a perfectionist but everything that I do, I always give it a 100% effort and leave the rest to fate and luck (and god, if he is paying attention at all). ;)

[ 10-31-2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Paladin2000 ]

I think there are times when being a perfectionist can be counter-productive. As a writer, I sometimes go back over my work multiple times to "perfect" it, but on occasion I will "perfect" it so much that it no longer resembles what I was originally trying to do.
I think it's great to hold yourself to high standards, but there are times when we must step back and say something is good enough as it is. The only time I really want someone to be a perfectionist is if their work has an impact on others. For example, a surgeon should be a perfectionist, as should an airline mechanic.

Arnabas: I completely agree! I am a songwriter, and my perfectionism can get in the way. Something odd I've learned from sound engineers and producers in the recording studios I've been at: the first take (even with mistakes) is usually the keeper. The more you stare at your work, the more robotic and unemotional it becomes.

Absolutely. The first draft always contains the true emotion behind the work. I try to limit my editing to the necessary things, such as spelling errors, grammatical errors, etc.

One golden rule to remember : Never let perfection get in the way of creativity.
Yeah i'm used to having the life drained out of me, but hey its fun. Though i'm not personally i think its really not that good to criticize someone blatantly [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oh and perfectionism towards others is not what i was talking of, What i meant was seeking perfection in our own selves. Thanks to some thinking i have just learnt a big lesson, how to get satisfaction out of life while maintaining a certain attitude of perfection in my own self. I've also learnt that one must make performance bend to his will rather than the other way round.
Hmm i wonder why only a few have commented on this topic [img]smile.gif[/img]
-Whacky

*shrug* it depends what I'm doin, I tend to set "perfectionist" standards for myself on somethings, and constaly fall short, I guess I expect myself to get the impossible, and berate myself when I fall short. heh, I dont expect others to be perfect tho, or even myself; like I said, it depends on what I'm doin... lol, a good example is when I'm playing a game, and I have everything set almost to "perfection"; then teh stupid troops fall short of my standards, that really annoys the hell outa me, take Baldur's gate; its an ambush, and the AI kicks in and everyone rushes to the enemy and gets slaughtered... becoz I reloaded and forgot to turn off the AI... lol, or if I'm painting something or other for some obsure reason and it isnt "just right", that annoys me to. But only if I'm aiming for something. lol.

I'm fairly perfectionistic, but it depends on what I'm doing. For example, I absolutely hate bad grammar, so if I make a spelling mistake or something, I always feel the need to correct it. And nothing bothers me more than seeing a typo or mistake in a newspaper or book I'm reading (isn't someone paid to make sure there aren't any mistakes?). Yes, even when reading other people's things as well, but I keep that to myself. [img]smile.gif[/img] Of course, people take advantage of that by letting me reading their essays and such; I'm a proofreader extraordinaire! There are other things I'm a perfectionist about, but I don't want to bore anyone with any other examples. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It can really be a bad thing because I get so caught up in doing something exactly right that it often takes the fun out of things that should be fun. I enjoy reading, and if I let myself go into grammar mode, then every little mistake bothers me, and it hampers my enjoyment of whatever I'm reading. Luckily, I've started to learn to control myself, so now I have more fun doing things I enjoy.

It's good to strive for perfection, but always remember that it is an "ideal." I would hate to be "perfect" because that would, paradoxically, be considered a static condition, and to me, perfection is constantly moving and changing; it is dynamic.

Setting one's goals high is admirable. Setting oneself up to be perfect is an exercise in futility, and can lead to low self-esteem. For example, students who I've seen kicking themselves (literally) because they made a 98 on an exam rather than 100. I pulled one off to the side and asked her one time, "What is the difference between 90 and 100?" "Ten points!" she wailed. "NO," I said, and then reiterated the question. The answer was, of course, "nothing." An "A" is an "A", whether it is a 90 or 100. By setting herself up to be perfect, she refused to allow anything other than perfection as her standard, and thereby refused to allow herself any enjoyment over any accomplishment she made, since it wasn't "perfect." Really rather sad, if you ask me.

-Sazerac

Remember Anal Retentive or Obsessive Compulsive is not a Perfectionist.

Frasier Crane is a Perfectionist.

Felix Unger is Anal Retentive and Obsessive Compulsive.

Perfectionism is rooted in low self-esteem. Both the psychodynamic and cognitive-behavioral schools of therapy show that at their psychic core perfectionists are guilt ridden, guilt driven. Here is the thing: Perfectionists cannot fail for failure cuts to their wounded core. Failure brings forth deep guilt. To combat and guard against failure the perfectionist will strive to see that they do not fail by rigid control of their environment. In other words, if they can control their environment they will not fail. The problem is that the environment isn't really controllable. Another problem is that failer is always only one step away which drives the perfectionist to controlling themselves and often others. Extreme cases are whereby people in your life never seem to measure up to your standards; if only they would then they would be happier and more productive (and you wouldn't be frustrated). As always, perfectionism takes differing degrees as many of you have already attested to. Under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV; which is THE standard manual for diagnosis) published by the American Psychiatric Association, lable perfectionists as Obsessive-Compulsive. Here is some of what they say:

"The essential feature of the Obsessive-Compulsive... is a preoccupation with ordiliness, perfectionism, and mental and interpersonal control, at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency. This pattern begins in early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts... Individuals with O-C attempt to maintain a sense of control to painstaking attention to rules, trivial details, procedures, lists, schedules... [they] display excessive devotion to work and productivity to the exclusion of liesure activities and friendships... and when they do have time they are uncomfortable [for they think it is a waste of time]..."

There is a whole lot more but I think you get a glimpse of what perfectionism is. personally, wacky, I think your own description is right on. Remember, however, the woundedness that a perfectionistic has can be of varying degress. That is why you have have varying degrees of response on this board. By the way, anal attentive and obsessive-compulsive ARE the same thing. Frasier and Felix are in the same boat, but Felix is definitly the more extreme. For what its worth...

[quote] origi

I'd challenge that assertion for creators of art, architecture and houses. Attention to detail, not having walls and a roof fall down is kind of important.

It also denys the positive impetus of love cand care.

I mean look at the opposite. Songs half finished because the writer doesn't care about his work? A house shoddily built? I think those studies ignore a vast section of those leaning towards perfectionism.

It's about balance and discernment. Controlling what you can, and letting go of what you cannot.

Like driving. You have to be in control of the car or you crash. It's not simply enough to not be attentive about everything. Yet you need to let go of the idea that you can control another person within a relationship, or the relationship will crash.

[ 10-31-2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

I hate perfectionism... it's what makes time wasted and life not worth living to me, but that's just me... why can't we all just get aloooong? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

What you're actually quoting is the description for Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder - NOT Obsessive-compulsive disorder. People with OCD may be perfectionists but it is not the major characteristic of the disorder (in fact not even part of the diagnostic criteria - see page 462 of DSM-IV-TR) - obsessions and compulsions are, which someone who is a perfectionist (as described by Whacky) need not have, and OCPD is differentiated from OCD because OCPD sufferers don't have true obsessions and compulsions. Moreover the presentation for OCPD need not include perfectionism - it is merely one of eight criteria of which only four are necessary to be diagnosed.

<font color = lightgreen>Striving for perfection is a good thing, as long as you realize that perfection will never be attained. I, myself, suffered for a while like the girl mentioned by Sazerac: what?! I got a measly 98?! [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

Then I earned some wisdom. Do your best, this is all that can be asked of anyone. If your best is an 87, then so be it.

The reason that perfectionists make other people nervous is because, for the most part, you don't possess any skills or abilities that they don't; however, you discipline yourself more and you strive to attain higher goals, which serves to point out a lack of discipline in them and no one likes to look bad. What is even worse is that they fear that you, having performed better, might become condescending towards them or that you might begin to feel that you are indeed better than they are.

Just do your best and set realistic goals to try and attain. Always keep pushing your boundaries. Finally, don't worry about what other people may be thinking--there is nothing so trivial as another person's opinion of you. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>