I have an issue that I need to deal with sooner rather than later. Before I go on, I would like to request that people hold back on the jokes and flamebaiting for at least this thread. ;) This is quite important to me as I'm sure you would understand.

Some of you would know that I am an Atheist from past threads. I do not believe in God or any other religious being for that matter, but this thread is not about discussing the existence or non-existence of God, so I would appreciate any help from members whether they are Christians or non-Christians.

Around the time that religious discussions were running rampant here at IW, many of which I was involved in under the name Aviendha, I was also conducting these discussions outside of the forum with friends, family, and anyone that would listen. My wife Alison was one of the people that I discussed this with on a few occasions and I questioned her continuously about her belief in God and the Bible without actually being a Christian. It seems that I struck a chord with her as she started going to church within a couple of weeks. My wife is now a Christian. She goes to Church, bible study, and other church activities throughout the week. This doesn't upset me a lot as you might expect it to. I have never had a real problem with Christians in general, I just don't believe the same things as them. As a couple though, I think that things are going to get extremely interesting in our future together.

For example, how do we raise our children when the time comes? Obviously, there is going to have to be a lot of compromising, but to what extent? When my little girl or boy says to me "Daddy, why don't you go to Church?", or "Daddy, does God exist?", what am I going to say? Surely I can't tell them the opposite to what their mother has told them, as they will be extremely confused kids. Do I lie to them?
Do I want my kids to go to a Christian school and have Jesus shoved in their face every day? Not at all!!! But can I tell my wife that they will not? No!

Further to all this, as Alison gets more and more involved in Christianity, she's going to feel less and less close to me as a human being. This scares me a lot! I'm not going to go into all the other problems that we are likely to face, but I am looking for any advice from people whom are either in the same situation, or have an understanding of the situation.

You may be thinking to yourself, "he really should sort this out with his wife!". Well, we talk about this all the time. Unfortunately I don't know the answers to a lot of the problems and I'm a bit scared about what might be down the track for us even though we have so much else in common and are happily married.

Ben.

I've been in that kind of situation before both as child and as a parent. My parents were from slightly different religious backgrounds with one side of the family being mostly baptist and the other side mostly catholic or orthodox. Me and my sister alternatively went to different churches when we were little but didn't really belong to any since we didn't go regularly. Our parents didn't make us go and I quit going when I was about 10 because none of it made any sense to me. I still don't belong to any religion but my son has started going to AWANA meetings every Sunday with my nephew. As long as both you and your wife explain about your separate ways to your children and agree to let them decide on their own, it there shouldn't be any problems. Doubt I'm much help, though. I usually avoid religious discusion like the plague!

Well, as a former Catholic, I'm not sure if I'm totally qualified to make an attempt at an answer. But, since you have asked for some advice, I think that I it would be wrong of me not to say something.

I think as long as you teach your kids the values of benevolence (helpfulness, kindness, and such), it doesn't matter what you do. I'd say that the best way would be to expose your kids to both sides of the issue (Christian and your own views), but that is difficult to do with younger ones. In my opinion, Christian teaching may not be a bad way to go for younger children. Children seem to pick up on the teachings and the general goodness from Christian teachings and such. I don't mean to say that you have to put them in a private school, but sunday school might not be a bad idea when they're young. Once they get older, you can let them make their own decisions on religion.

I went to a private school for my schooling all the way until I went off to college. It didn't get bad until high school, when I started to disagree with a lot of what I was being taught of religion. After, so many years of having Jesus and Catholic teaching thrusted unrelentlessly in my face, I got tired of it because it didn't fit into my own beliefs about the way things work. I found that learning about other religions helped me form my beliefs, and in the end, I think the best way to find your own religion is to research all the ones that you find until you find one that fits with you.

I hope that helped and didn't sound too much like a rant. I can discuss more of my thoughts and experiences if you'd like more.

I know religion if factored around a lot of things, but it doesn't govern everything. I'm not beating my around the bush here, but I believe deism is the best stance in life. I too, at one time, believed the same things as you do now, that there is no God and such, but I try to be a little more realistic (not bashing you though!! [img]smile.gif[/img] )

What I'd say, even if you'd take the advice of someone who knows remotely nothing of relationships, is that you should try to focus your life more around other things. If you and your wife come about some arguement concerning religion, change the subject, or if you have to, walk away for a moment. The choices you make concerning your children should come natural. If you believe that they will live a better life having faith in God, then you do what you must. If they ask why you don't go to church, say something like "Daddy's busy." I don't know, my knowledge on the subject is little, and I wish I could help you more. Just remember to live life and pursue HAPPINESS. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Be honest with your children if you want them to respect you when they get older. You can tell them "I don't think so but your mother does." and any further questions to you about God they may direct at you ccan be referred to their mother since she believes in God. If you change your mind later in life, don't be afraid to ask them questions lol and don't be afraid to explain your own beliefs just because they are different than hers.

Let your wife give your children their religious education and take them to church if she wants to, they are her kids too and when they are older they are going to make their own judgements anyway so no matter what you do in the way of bringing them up, they are going to be exposed to both sides of the coin just by living around a variety of people with a variety of ideas and will gradually develop their own beliefs that may or may not reflect those of you and your wife.

I would definitely not recommend a Christian school though because unless both parents are Christians your children are going to be exposed to unnecessary negativity and/or stress over your non-belief.

If you honestly believe that your wife is going to feel less and less close to you as she gets more and more involved in Christianity, you can almost be certain that you will (subconsciously) give her every reason to. If you can stop fearing her belief being so different than yours and she can accept her religion without bias to people who refuse to conform to it then the two of you should be able to continue on with your happily married life.

My grandmother was an active Christian, she even played the piano and organ in the Baptist church she attended. My step-grandfather, on the other hand was athiest through and through, right up to the day he died. They were married for over thirty years and are buried next to each other. The five children they raised together all have their own beliefs...Christianity (2 Catholics and 1 Baptist), Athiesm, and Total Hypocrisy.

Good Luck.

Thanks everyone so far. Does anyone else have any advice?

I think one thing to consider is this.

Who will be more upset if your children are raised with differing beliefs from them? To whom will it have more impact?

Regarding the 'growing apart' aspect, that's something that any couple can deal with in life. It could be a new career that shapes ones thoughts. It could be a change in health that changes ones perspective. Or if one gains new friends that influence ones thoughts and opinions. The key is communicating so you know each other and grow interdependently, not being aiming to be mental clones of each other.

All that's happened is that she's become closer to Jesus. If she follows the leading of the Holy Spirit, she'll seek to be closer, more committed, more forgiving, more at peace and more loving with you. Hardly something to fear. ;)

Many preachers sermons are actually relationship enhancing advice. Stress management counsel. Marriage guidance. The only difference to a secular talk on the same issues is that God is the focus. There's a push to "let go and let God". To do as Jesus would do, and let the Holy Spirit in.

I don't know if you're worried about it at all, but she would never be instructed to leave you. On the contrary, the Bible is very clear about her staying with you whether you're a believer or not. ;)

As some have written, there are many cases of people of differring worldviews marrying.

My girlfriends parents went through a similar situation. Her mother became a Christian. Her father thought she'd gone round the bend. Consequently my girlfriend had a lower opinion of her mother.... until she herself came to know Jesus.

Then her father had to contend with two women who loved God ;) :D And all they do is love him.

I think at the end of the day, you've just got to let her be herself yeah? If she wants to believe, let her. There's no issue. Let her be a bird outside of a cage.

Even christians married to each other are going to have differing beliefs.
I have to watch myself with a partner, that I don't shove my theology down their throat. I think my ex-wifes faith got a whole lot better after we split, as it became truly independently vibrant, not overly influenced by her opinionated, stubborn husband. :( When I met her she was going to my preacher-father's church. (I'd left it a few years before). Once we started going out, there was no way I was going to my fathers church again, so we went to mine. I took her away from her church. :(

Consequently I'm mindful of that with people I've been with since. Giving them air. Room to have faith. To doubt.

She will have doubts Ben. That's a part of faith. She'll need to talk to you about issues she has with her church or with God, and not feel like you're trying to pry her away from it or remove her faith. Be there as an ear brother. An ear not trying to control.

I hope you guys are cool mate. [img]smile.gif[/img] I see no reason why not, but I'll be praying for you guys bro. [img]smile.gif[/img] You're a good man.

[ 10-26-2002, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Don't toke nutmeg [img]smile.gif[/img]

Don't toke nutmeg [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Phil, I'm sure I said no jokes in this thread please. Oh...maybe you're serious! :D Did you actually try that?

Religion has never been an issue of mine. I've been introduced to just about every religion created: Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Protestant, the list is nearly endless. In truth there is no real advice I or anyone else can give that will have the proper answer. In all honesty I believe you should leave the choice of religion up to the children. If they so desire to believe in god then that's their choice. However, I always felt religion was devoid of, not a result of common sense. First teach them morals, common sense, and the strong ability to think logcially for themselves before introducing something like religion. When they are capable of making their own rational decisions they may come to realize they'll have no need for religion, and your worries are over, if indeed you have any. As objectional as it may sound to some, the religions I have seen came across as more of a "control of the masses" then some spiritual enlightenment. Responsibility is the best asset anyone can possess and when you have that, a grand spectacle such as a god will seem humorous. These are my viewpoints, yours are your own, and looking at my clock I am late for tea so I must be going now. Good luck, and remember......don't allow belief or emotion to judge your actions.

Don't toke nutmeg [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Phil, I'm sure I said no jokes in this thread please. Oh...maybe you're serious! :D Did you actually try that?</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry dude but you did leave yourself wide open, consider myself spanked ;)

They're all Christian denominations Mellagar. ;)

Trickster, it's simple:

in our family my brother and i were raisedd with Christianity (Anglican to be precise), including confirmation/communion/etc.... Hell, even our first names were taken out of the Bible

Now, he's an atheist, I'm a shaman. But that doesn't matter. We had a decent vicar and the only point was to provide a moral grounding at childhood. After that didn't matter

My suggestion? Raise the kids with the best ideals of Christianity, but don't ram it down their throats or let them go to extremist meetings. Even if they leave it in later life they will have had some ethical backgrgound [img]smile.gif[/img]

They're all Christian denominations Mellagar. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]He's right about that Mellagar
though they are different, and as such have caused a war or 2, these are actually all Christianity
Different religions are religions like the Islam (which has 2 versions aswell) Judism, Buddism, Hinduism, Taoism and the almost extinct Polythism

--------------

To you trickster

I've been send to a katholic school by my mother, not because of any believe she had, but just because it was closer to home.
All we ever did about religion was, have a pastor come over once every 2 weeks and tell us some bible stories and such, and ofcourse saying a short prayer each morning.
my katholic school may have had influence on the way i am today, but I'm still an atheist.
I recommend you to send your child to a school of which you know, they teach about multiple religions (which shouldn't be to confusing for the child because judism, islam and christianity all have one god which they explain differently) and you child can make a decition of it's own
You just have to make sure that both you as your wife accepts your childs decition.
Forcing your child to go to church or to be a christen, will only make him dislike his religion.
But eventhough i dont have a religion, i think having a religion, having someone or something to turn to in time of trouble can be very rewarding and usefull

as said Ignorence can be a Bliss

when it comes to the kids issue, just tell them what you belive (aka, there is no god) then let them make up there own minds. thats the only advice i can give you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

As long as your wife isnt forcing her views on you then her religion shouldnt be a problem , unless you make it one. Children are a more complicated subject though. I guess you will have to plan ahead about what you 2 will teach them.My parents did the whole go to church and sunday school thing with me and my brother. THe more I went the less sense it made to me , so I stopped going. My brother on the otherhand went on to do church services and help out with the sunday service. In the end it realy boils down to what wil make you and your wife fight the least because kids will always do what they want to anyway.

Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone that responded to this. It's been great seeing other people's point of views, and I guess Alison and I have some ideas to talk about.

Thanks again,
Ben.

I dont s'pose you've considered tellin em (you children to be or whatever) "I believe one thing <reasons why > your mother believes another; ask her to explain"...? that way you've both put across your views without insulting each other, kind of. just a thought.

Trickster, I would like to add something. Diversity is good ! [img]smile.gif[/img] In a couple, and more so for children. The more different people a child meets, the more he grows up able to make his own mind. You will actually be giving your children more freedom to make their own choices. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Having different beliefs in a couple can appear as less secure and comfortable, but it is also more exciting and mind-broadening, as long as both of you respect each other's beliefs. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ben, I agree with what some others here have said - it will be good for your children to grow up in an environment where different views and opinions are voiced and respected and they will probably grow up to be tolerant and understanding of differences.

The 'I believe this, your mother believes something different' is a completely acceptable and honest answer, no-one said that parenting was about providing a unified 'this is the only way to do things' outlook.

Speaking purely about the childrens issues, I feel it's better (even froma christian viewpoint) to send them to a public school rather than a private one. I've seen children grow up in both institutions and I feel it's better to prepare them for life with the rest of the world than segregate them.

Sending them to church won't hurt your relationship with them, they will be taught to love and respect their parents. As long as you are frank with them and don't lie, I feel you'll have fewer problems. Lying just creates timebombs later in life, especially in those teen years.

I am in a similar situation. My wife is Catholic and I am Pagan. We had some rough times at the beginning of our relationship when she kept trying to subtly convert me. we have now reached an agreement. I actually go with her to church, because I feel it important to support her in anything she wants to do. If it's important to her, it's important to me. She has also agreed to join me should I ever be involved in ritual again (usually I practice my beliefs alon, but occassionally will join others to celebrate Yule, or what-have-you).
Our first child is due in April, so we've been talking about this very topic for some time. I feel it is important to have my kids baptised. My thought is that, should they grow up Catholic, they will be happy that it was done. If they grow up Pagan (or anything else), they won't really care if it was done or not.
I feel it will be responsability as a parent to teach my child about my beliefs and also their mother's, then allow them to choose. Would I prefer to heve them follow my beliefs? Yes, I would. I think it's normal for a person to want their child to agree with them on such things. Will I be upset if they are Catholic? No. As long as they are good, decent people, I will be extremely happy. I just ask that they not judge others for being different.
On a personal level, my wife and I have resolved our different points of view fairly well. I believe in an ultimate creator-force, which has both male (God) and female (Goddess) aspects. Like many Pagans, I believe these forces manifest in many ways, including the various gods/ goddesses of ancient religions. I simply accept the Christian God as one such manifestation. He's not necessarily the one I invest my faith in, but all things and all deities are ultimately part of the same creative force.

You are Canadian are you not? I don't know how it is in Canada, but in Sydney (where both Ben and I are from) the 'Christian' private schools are generally a lot better than the public ones. (Kings, Trinity etc etc) Nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with schooling. So, careful with the 'advice' about another nations schooling.

Ben, I went to a public high school and then a private Baptist one. One thing I found was that as I was going through it, many kids rebelled against Christianity and the small amounts of doctrine we were exposed to.

There was one subject called Biblical Studies once a week, a pseudo-sermon/motvational talk once a week and that was pretty much it.

The benefit for me personally was there were other preachers kids there. You COULD be a Christian and not feel like a loner, unlike in my Public schools where derision could be commonplace.

Anyhow, many of my contemporaries rejected the church, free from condemnation too. The irony is that two of the most hardcore people against it are now for it. One guy was a Satanist at school, and he's now working full time as a social worker for the Anglican church.

So go figure. How someone is raised seems irrelevent. As Arnabas said, if they end up Christian, all the Bible stuff they get taught as a child will be invaluable. If they don't end up Christian, is it really a big deal?