<font color="#66cc99">Being the anal, skeptical, contentious bastard that I am. I have long believed all this rambeling about the radiation hazards of cell phones and microwave ovens and CRT's was a bunch of BS but didn't have any thing to prove or disprove the popular news stories. So I was quite interested when I heard the following.

From the Dr. Dean Edell Radio Talk Show on WMAL in Washington DC.

THe doc reported that a study that just wrapped up, that was conducted on the survivors of the Nagasaki and Hiroshima atomic bomb attacks.

The study was to track these survivors to see what kinds of health effects the radiation that these people received from the bombs had ontheir long term health. The amount of radiation these people received is reported to be 10,000 times that received from a normal medical X-ray which in turn is much higher than the radiation received from cell phones, crt's and microwave ovens.

The test concluded that those people who were exposed to the bombs radiation did indeed exhibit a higher instance of tumors than people who did not suffer the radiation dose. While this is not surpriseing, what I did find surprising is that the total number of tumors encountered was 468. That is 468 out of 80,000 people tracked. Of the 468 the vast majority of the tumors were benign types of tumors and easily removed with no ill effects (they did not say what percentage).

So what Im taking away from this is that, 80,000 people who got zapped with 10,000 times the radiation deemed safe for a single exposure 468 of them had problems with tumors. I think our cell phones and microwaves may be safer than the news papers want us to believe. Of course they didnt bother mentioning the other 80,000 people who got flash fried and died instantly nor what their odds of tumors would have been had they lived.</font>

Just on the same line of thought with another recent study:

Maybe microwaves and radiowaves cannot harm you much, but when people use radioactive material to kill people, it kills.

Gee Scholarcs, it couldnt be because of all the oil fires Iraqi forces started at the end of the gulf war could it?And the fact that its Iraq putting out the statistics?
Depleted uranium rounds have been around a long time. They are practiced with all the time. If it was as harmful as you say our entire military would be one big cancer ward. Along with all the civilian areas surrounding the bases.

APFSDS-DU rounds are at worst, mildly radioactive. The big problem is the fact that uranium is chemically poisonous, as well as being flammable. So it disperses quite widely when involved in a kinetic kill.

The only reason the Militry uses DU is because of it’s extremely dense (I.e better at penetrating armour since it has more mass), pyrophoric qualities and because it was cheap and available in huge quantities. They should not really be using it since It can cause chemical poisoning to the body in the same way as any other heavy metal. And It’s also radiologically hazardous, as it spontaneously burns on impact, creating tiny aerosolised glass particles which are small enough to be inhaled. These uranium oxide particles emit all types of radiation, alpha, beta and gamma, and can be carried in the air over long distances.
AND!!!! the presence of depleted uranium ceramic aerosols can pose a long term threat to human health and the environment.

[ 10-20-2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Eisenschwarz ]

Maybe microwaves and radiowaves cannot harm you much, but when people use radioactive material to kill people, it kills.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#66cc99">Pretty cool how 300 tonnes of depleted uranium anti-tank rounds used mostly in the remote deserts where the fighting occured caused cancer in kids hundreds of miles away....not even down wind. OOps I noticed you didn't mention which coutnry this might be taking place in. So for all we know it could be in vladivostok.

Edit: Just for the sake of accuracy here. Missiles are not made of depleted uranium. From what I learned in my "Principles of Guided Missiles and Nuclear weapons" course from the US Navy, the only rounds to use depleted uranium are anti-tank rounds fired by tanks and I believe the A10 Thunderbolt II. The anti-tank missiles use shaped charges known as HEAT rounds and some times tungsten penetrator rods, but as far ans the public inventory goes there are no depleted uranium missiles.</font>

[ 10-20-2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

“as it spontaneously burns on impact, creating tiny aerosolised glass particles which are small enough to be inhaled. These uranium oxide particles emit all types of radiation, alpha, beta and gamma, and can be carried in the air over long distances."

It happened In Iraq.

DU is also used in the armour of the M1A2 abrams in k4wl new honeycomb style, (although not in the ones exported to Saudi Arabia IIRC, Those just had the "export Armour" package)
The LOSAT uses KEM missiles IIRC, But I dunno what the penetrator is.

“as it spontaneously burns on impact, creating tiny aerosolised glass particles which are small enough to be inhaled. These uranium oxide particles emit all types of radiation, alpha, beta and gamma, and can be carried in the air over long distances."

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I understand that but: A. Depleted Uranium isn't causing tank crews to drop dead from the radiation,(because it is not that radioactive) B. Almost all of the DU rounds were fired in unoccupied desert and most importantly of all. C. The Iraqi population centers are NORTH of where these aerosols were supposedly generated..the prevailing winds are west to east. SOOOOOO the people who should be dropping in droves would have to be in Khuzestan Iran and maybe in Basra and northern Kuwait, and not in Baghdad or any other Iraqi population center.</font>

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK: Ops I noticed you didn't mention which country this might be taking place in. So for all we know it could be in vladivostok.</font>

It happened In Iraq.

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What part of Iraq? Look at the maps and check the prevailing winds, only Bassra could have been affected. There are no other "Population" centers down there. Kuwait and Iran would have been the ones that should be reporting problems not Iraqi's</font>

DU is also used in the armour of the M1A2 abrams in k4wl new honeycomb style, (although not in the ones exported to Saudi Arabia IIRC, Those just had the "export Armour" package)
The LOSAT uses KEM missiles IIRC, But I dunno what the penetrator is.

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Well yes the some armor has some DU in it, but I don't think we were tossing tank hulls around to bombard troops or cities. Nearly all penetrators that aren't of a ceramic nature are tungsten. I have never read about any other material.
LOSAT specs show that the penetrator is a "High Density Rod Armour Penetrator" which previously has been used to describe a long tapered tungsten rod.</font>[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]

We actually had a problem with spent depleted uranium shells in the ocean. We cleaned them up, but there were still problems with the wildlife. The thing was, they'd been down there for like 10 years. So in other words, constant close exposure probably does create problems, but other than that, the effects are fairly minimal.

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And would be expected to crop up down wind, in Kuwait, and Iran not in northern Iraq. I'm wondering how much of an impact the checmical and biological agents SH released on the Kurds in the middle and north of the country has had on the health of Iraqi citizens. Think those might have some negative effects? But again, you would expect the problems to crop up down wind which is Iran...one of the reasons Im betting, that SH didn't hesitate using chemical weapons against the Iranians in that war.</font>

[ 10-20-2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

LOL, MagiK causing trouble again. Sorry, I am fairly unconcerned of the effect of DU rounds on the inhabitants of enemy tanks. :D

Have any of you ever handled depleted uranium rounds? I can assure you I have being a former Marine aviation ordnanceman. Its been 16 years yet here I am! I have handled 20mm uranium depleted rounds singly, in belts, by the case, by the pallet, and worked on a bombing range in Yuma Arizona where there are actually fired. The projectiles (about the size of your pinkie) litter the desert. I think I still have a few somewhere. There are no mutated cancer lizards, no monster snakes, no killer bunnies (as in the movie Night of the Lepus [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) infesting the Arizona desert. Also no cancer-ridden ordnancemen, including myself. While I firmly believe in environmentalism in some cases they are full of crap. Playing on the fears and ignorance of the public with stats skewed their way to further their own agandas. I propose we administer a 20mm depleted uranium suppository to one of them to properly guage the effects. [img]smile.gif[/img] Thank you for not hearing a word I'm saying [img]smile.gif[/img]

LOL! I loved The Night of the Lepus It was so bad, that I still recall the bathos of their radio calls out. And trying to make bunny rabbits act like monsters. I actually felt sorry for the handlers. (Director: "Now give me a ferocious bunny rabbit!" Handler: *looks helplessly at bunny rabit twitching its nose.*)
Did you see The Killer Shrews? They had collie dogs painted and with fake teeth. In one scene, I swear that one of the "Shrews" was licking the actors instead of biting them.

LOL Attalus I missed the shrews! I'll look for it on TNT or TBS ;) I remember the bunnies/Lepus gnawing on the silly humans! It was corny as hell LOL

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You nut jobs! The DU rounds are SUPPOSED to kill the inhabitants of tanks!...errr Enemy tanks...Im pretty sure the inhabitants of the tanks firing the DU rounds might get a bit miffed if they were to start dropping dead from handeling the silly things.

Hey LoA do they make you wear lead undies when you have to use those rounds? [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

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Boy you guys watch some of the worst movies....wonder what it says about me that I do too [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

Errr remember Attack of the Killer Leaches? :D A true classic!

Yes, LoA, I saw The Killer Leeches and appreciate its ... artistry ;)

One of the recent hot arguments around our house was about whether Freddie Got Fingered had replaced Ed Wood's Plan Nine From Outer Space as the worst movie of all times. The consensus was that it had, because we laughed a lot more watching Plan Nine than that other bit of ... weirdness. The scene where the cop trips over the gravestone and it goes sproing-g-g has me rolling on the floor every time, and Piestrider, too.

Quoting:
“The purpose of this work was to determine the concentration and ratio of uranium isotopes in allied forces Gulf War veterans. The 27 patients had their 24-hour urine samples analysed for 234U, 235U, 236U, and 238U by mass spectrometry. The urine samples were evaporated and separated into isotopic dilution and concentration fraction by the chromatographic technique. The isotopic composition was measured by a thermal ionisation mass spectrometer using a secondary electron multiplier detector and ion-counting system. The uranium blank control and SRM960 U isotopic standard were analysed by the same procedure. Statistical analysis was done by an unpaired t test. The results confirm the presence of depleted uranium (DU) in 14 of 27 samples...”

I won’t pretend to understand much of that, But what this study seems to be saying is that 14 out of 27 allied forces gulf war veterans (in the study) were found to have DU in their bodies. This means that More people who were involved in the fighting might have it in them.
And Having DU in your body is bad :o(

A report on DU by the U.S. Army
Environmental Policy Institute says that "if DU enters the body, it has the
potential to generate significant medical consequences. The risks associated
with DU in the body are both chemical and radiological..."

I should think that thousands of Soldiers were exposed to depleted uranium aerosol fallout particles during the 4 days of ground battles in Kuwait and Iraq.
Additional soldiers could have been exposed because
they entered, crawled on, sat on, touched or kicked up dust by walking
around Iraqi tanks and other vehicles destroyed by depleted uranium metal penetrates used in cannon rounds.

It's interesting to note that A sub-commission of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights appointed a 'rapporteur' to investigate the use of depleted uranium weapons among other types of weapons, after passing a resolution which categorised depleted uranium weapons alongside such as nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, napalm, and cluster bombs as a 'weapon of indiscriminate effect'.

I dunno enough about that, I cede the point unless anyone knows more.

Quoteing;

"Another report showed that the prevailing winds during the days of tank battles in southern Iraq blew southeast, "meaning that the fumes from depleted uranium went back to the American forces in Kuwait," said Suad Naji al-Azawi, a University of Baghdad ecologist who was educated at Colorado College in Colorado Springs."

So rather than the Iraqi people, It seems teh USA forces got it instead!

I want A gold Kinetic penetrator.
IIRC Armour is becomeing Too hard to penetrate now, So the main points of attack are now Tracks & the Turret Ring. so Maybe They can get rid of that nasty DU and use other Fun Heavy Metals.

HTH!
HAND!

Hey Magic, doesn't the Phalanx(sp) System fire DU rounds?

Yes it does. The Phalynx uses the 20mm M61 series six barreled gatling cannon. Its capable of either 4000 or 6000 rounds per minute, depending on the setting. Its actually adapted from aircraft gunpods,which I had the fun of seeing in use in Arizona. Its a very weird sound. You hear what sounds like a chainsaw, then another sound of the rounds breaking the sound barrier, then the sound of them hitting the target/ground. Its cool to watch :D