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And Hear My Cries For HELLLLLLP!

I am not going to sugar coat my problem or lure you into inspired posts that would help my cause so let me lay it on the line.

I have to analyze a poem for my Literature class and it has to be 5 pages long.
My problem is that I have been putting so much time and effort into getting ready for a Biology/Nutrition exam and an Algebra exam (both Wednesday) that I simply can't think!

EDIT: This is not to say that tomorrow things will not be clearer as earlier today, I did finish compiling the study guide for my upcoming Biology/Nutrition exam. [img]smile.gif[/img] I can hope so anyway LOL ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I have chosen my poem! (Yay! LOL)
It is Dylan Thomas' villanelle, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" and I have some questions offering direction for "Critical Thinking" but like I said I can't think LOL! (shush!)

Here is the poem and the questions to consider....if any of you would like to take the time to participate in being my brain for a day (Oh God NO LOL) or just take it upon yourself to offer your own wisdom, it would be greatly appreciated!

I do have the benefit of filling the first page with the thesis statement and background on Mr. Thomas.

I don't even have the thesis statement yet and that much is due on Wednesday. *sigh*

OK Here Goes:

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

I like the poem and feel a lot of depth and meaning in it...I can feel what it is getting across in each of the stanzas but at present I cannot find the words to express them. (Timber Loftis, do you have my words again? ;) )
Most frustrating for one who pride's herself on her ability to think analytically (when she has it~shut up! *wink*) and even moreso for a former English wizard who has just spent too much time in Science and not enough in "real" books LOL!

The question I should consider to analyze it:
1) How does Thomas vary the meanings of the poem's two refrains "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying og the light"?

2) Thomas' father was close to death at the time he wrote this poem. How does the tome contribute to the poem's theme?

3) How is th egord "good" used in line 1?

4) Characterize the men who are "Wise" (line 4), "Good" (7), "Wild" (10), and "Grave" (13)

5) What figures of speech contribute to this poem?

6) What can be discussed regarding this villanelle's sound effects?

Once again, let me offer you any thanks for any help you can give me and also...if you all would like to turn this thread into a discussion of poetry, please do so! It has been a while since we have had any active poetry threads going and I think it makes for some astounding and thought-provoking conversation! (I know some of you do too! :D )

Here goes, from a guy in ELA honours

2) Thomas' emotions are the contributing factor to the overall theme. His confusion of emotions such as joy over the life his father led, sorrow, guilt and even anger towards him cause the poem to contrast itself.

These emotions are leading him to tell his father to fight, and grieve over the absolutes of life, such as death. In the third stanza, for example, Thomas reflects on how one's "frail deeds" mean all but nothing after one's death.

[img]tongue.gif[/img] . Glad I'm going into Poli-Sci at university.

True_Moose,
You are a blessing to this Escapee Haven LOL!

What will you specialize in (in the Poli-Sci field)? Territorial or National?

I haven't chosen a specialty subject in my quest for an Education degree yet.
I know Special Education gets higher pay but it is also a higher risk job and I am not sure my heart would be up to it.
I am considering Sign Language as an alternative to Spanish or French...that will enable me to know a "universal" language besides English and also qualify me for teaching Special Needs children without getting sucked into the developmental disablities area of Special Education. (I am such a chicken-sh*t when it comes to violent and disturbed children LOL)

International. Canadian politics and government is about as interesting as watching grass grow... [img]graemlins/yawn.gif[/img] I mean at least your politicians are raunchy enough to make things interesting [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]

[ 10-14-2002, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: True_Moose ]

LOL Yeah but teaching it can be quite a bore! History on the other hand has a lot of colorful characters and spicy stories to give it flavor.
You'll be an active participant or just studied in the subject?
Eh, I'll stick with the basics and kids too young to realize that none of it matters LOL.

I'm not sure, but if I'm right then

4) Wise men are those who recognize that death has come to claim them. They regret what they haven't done. The passage "their words had forked no lightning" means that they have not necessarily expressed themselves, or have accomplished what they wished to have accomplished during their lives, and are thus unhappy when death claims them.

Good men see their noble actions brought to naught. Though "their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay," the pre-death reconsideration of their life forces them to face the fact that they have really done little of import. They again, feel rage against death because they wished to do more with their lives.

Wild men are those that do not recognize the consequences of their actions; those that do not plan or recognize their future. As such, they live in the present. They cannot accept death because it is unacceptable to lose the present; one cannot have consciousness of death. Hence, they cannot come to terms with death like others can.

Grave men are those who treat life too seriously; those who experience no joy through life. Their eyes are blind to the pleasures and joys of the world. When death comes to them, they realise that their ignorance of these joys has caused them to lose any chance they had of ever having them. Death represents a sort of grave finality to their grave lives.

In conclusion, Thomas is pointing out that, while each person detests death, each approaches it in his or her own way, with a different reason in each.

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

In answer to your question, sort of. My goal is to be on the Supreme Court of Canada as a judge. While judges are not necessarily as political here as in the States, our Supreme Court is as political as yours, and almost more important in the process of governing.

What an excellent analysis! You pretty much stated what I was feeling in it but could not grasp with actual words. Thank you very much!

Man, I really need to limit the time I spend on my Biology LOL...I have atoms and amino acids in the forefront of my brain...I hope I don't lose it all before Wednesday LOL! It would really be sad of me if I did lose it come test time LOL I only spent three days compiling a study guide for three chapters that is just over 30 pages typed with pictures where I need to remember the chemistry. If I could only develop such a method for Math I'd have it made LOL!

I think you have very honorable goals. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Being a Judge is a big responsibility, a Supreme Court Judge even more so and the less political you can have the position be, the better IMO :D
I lost all respect for our Supreme Court in the appointment of Dubya to the presidency but that is another thread altogether LOL.

Sorry I took so long to respond to this thread but I have been saving some script for nothing more than nostalgia. Its the wedding you presided over LOL...if you want a copy let me know and I'll e-mail one to you. (I know, I'm a dork~shush ;) )

Sure, a copy would be cool. Just email it to the address on my profile. ;)

Sorry, but can't help you too much more than that. It would help if I knew what a villainelle was LOL [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You got mail :D
I added a separate bonus piece of nostalgia for chuckles and laughs...it is LONG but well worth reading. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't know how it can help (well then I am brain dead right now LOL) but a villanelle is a fixed form of poetry consisting of nineteen lines that can be any length that is divided into 6 stanzas: five tercets and a concluding quatrain.
The first and third lines of the initial tercet rhyme; these rhymes are repeated in each subsequent tercet and in the final two lines of the quatrain. Moreover, line 1 appears in its entirety as lines 6, 12, and 18, while line 3 appears as lines 9, 15, and 19.
This form may seem to risk monotony but in competent hands (such as Thomas") a villanelle can create hauntings echoes as seen in "Do not go gentle into that good night"

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE this poem!!!!!

*ahem* sorry just had to say that ;)
I'll now go back and actually read your posts and see if I can help ;)

I agree with a lot of what T_M said...
OK big rambling post coming on, just gonna jot down anything I can think of.

Firstly about the formal characteristics of the poem. A villanelle (from the italian word for rural, rustic) is a highly formalised type of poem with strict rules - critics have often complained they are little more than elaborate exercises in trivial wordplay. It *is* true that it's a VERY difficult style to pull off convincingly, because it will all too soon sound humourous of even ridiculous instead of sincere, mostly because of the scarcity of variation in the rhyme. W.H. Auden, Wendy Cope and Oscar Wilde are some of the writers who made attempts at writing villanelles. A villanelle consists of five three-lined stanzas (tercets) and a final quatrain. The first and the third line of the first stanza are alternated in the last lines of the other stanzas, and together form the final couplet in the quattrain. The second line of the other stanzas rhyme with the second line of the first.
This sounds more difficult than it is...

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[...]

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

So this poem is a perfect, flawless villanelle. The real accomplishment lies in the fact that it's tone is so immensely poignant - manage to force the poem into a strict formal corset like that and still strike a serious note rather than a satirical one.
It's also very clever that the lines "do not go gentle..." and "rage, rage..." in the first stanza are urging imperatives and in the other, their grammatical role is entirely different.
Note also the contrast between "good night" and the word "gentle" in the first line, and "Rage, rage" (made all the stronger through repetition) and "dying" in the second.

Like I said I agree with most of what True Moose wrote about the content of the different stanzas.
There is a kind of volta in the last stanza - from talking about dying in general, Thomas suddenly switches to a personal tone : And YOU, my FATHER.
Well a quick rehash of the other ones even though I'll most likely repeat what's been said already.

Wise men know that in the end death is inevitable, right even, but their words have forked no lightning - they have not left an impression and therefore they do not gently accept death.

Similarly, the actions of the good men have had too little effect on the world. Imagining how these actions could have made a difference, they rage against their uncoming death. "the last wave" is played out in the "green bay of the next line". Note how all stanzas have a natural phenomenon in the middle line - maybe to further emphasise that death is a part of nature, is natural, underlining our powerlessness against it as we are powerless against natural phenomena.

Oh I just noticed a tiny omission in the next stanza - it should be "grieved IT on its way"

The blinding sight of the grave men reminds me a little of the blind seer Tiresias from Greek mythology... not sure how far this can be taken though...

There's a duality in what Thomas is saying - he calls death "that good night", yet he cannot accept his father going into it willingly, meekly - he should be dragged kicking and screaming, raging. Another opposite pair is curse, bless. It seems like he's forcing his father to react, in any way, doesn't matter if he curses or blesses, as long as he does not go gently... The word fierce is another strong term that seems meant to whip his father into rage and out of acceptance.

On the Internet (or the Microsoft Encarta Encyclopaedia) you can find soundbites of Dylan Thomas reading his own work, including this poem. Very impressive and will definitely add to your understanding of it. [img]smile.gif[/img]
This will help you write about the aural effects of the poem as well.
A short note on that - like I said usually this type of repetitive rhyme will sound trite or funny (she took my hand, led me to the promised land, from the moment that we met I could not forget bla bla bla) but in this case, the rhymes create a poignant, emphatic tone.
Oh, another thing - try to pay some attention to the spondees in this poem. A spondee is a foot that has two stressed syllables in a row... don't know if you ever learned how to scansion - make a schematic representation of a poem's feet and meter... There's iambic (unstressed stressed), anapestic (two unstressed, stressed), trochaic (stressed unstressed) and dactylic (stressed two unstressed). their END know DARK is RIGHT is an example of iambs.
Spondees cause a break in the poems rhythm and therefore can draw extra attention to a word and create extra emphasis. "Rage, rage" and "curse, bless" are the most obvious ones but there are more.
The only way to find out is to read out loud :D

Oh, one last thing Moni - John Cale did a VERY good musical version of this poem, it is really quite astounding. You can tell he's listened to Thomas reading it aloud. I'd really recommend you listen to it if you can find it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hope that wasn't too rambly and confusing....

[ 10-15-2002, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

Actually Moni, I have the soundbite of Thomas reading this poem on my PC - I could send it to you if you like...
Unfortunately I haven't got the John Cale song so I really hope you can find that yourself. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Oh Melusine!
 <H1> I Love You! </H1> 

I am both grateful and freaked out all at once LOL!
I woke up as brain-dead as I went to sleep and sick on top of it. I am assuming being ill is why I am having such a hard time thinking. (Congested head lol) Well I do only have one class and it is hours away so hopefully I can remedy myself enough to go in and take notes.
The freaky part about seeing your posts here is that last night as I was reading the poem and deciding that it would be the one I was going to choose "something told me" that [/i]you[/i] would love it.
Then, a while later while typing it out here, you were so prominent in my thoughts it was almost giving me chills because you weren't even on the board!
It was as if Thomas himself were looking over my shoulder and anticipating your reading it (I got chills again just now LOL) Oh it was/is so kind of creepy and really neat all at once!

I would love to actualy hear Thomas himself reading it! You are so very kind to offer to send it to me! I haven't checked my e-mail in a few days so there might be some clutter in my lycos account but sending it to LastTruePrincess@aol.com will insure it makes it through to me.

I will definitely get a search going to find Cale's aduio version and Thank You Thank You Thank You!

Oh Bless You Bless You Bless You! You just made my crawling out of bed today worth everything!

*BIGHUGS*
Moni

[img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

No problem Moni - and what a coincidence!! I may have posted this poem on IW before in one of the few poetry threads we had. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I sent it to your lycos account earlier today but I take it your inbox was full - will send to the other account right now.
Oh and I just listened to the John Cale version (I only have it on cassette unfortunately) - it is really amazing.

I was thinking/hoping I had seen it in a post of yours some time back LOL!
Those "confirmation chills" just made it all that much stranger though! :D
Thank you so much for the send! It is really amazing, as you said! :D
My professor is a collector of readings so if this one is not in his collection, I can give it to him on a disk to record onto his CD's. He'll love it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I could not find it by John Cale anywhere but I would put money on KHaN's dad having it lol, that man has everything under the sun that was ever put to music lol. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thank you again! You're the greatest. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I did manage to get my thesis written and out of the way. Tomorrow he will critique it for me and suggest any changes he thinks are necessary before grading it with the final paper.
So, I guess it is off to study my Math and read through my Biology/Nutrition study guide again while there is still time left in the evening to do so.

Thank you again, so very much!

Moni