This one's for the revheads out there. :D

I'm thinking of getting a novated lease for a new one but I've heard some horror stories about Alfa reliability. It's an awesome looking car and has some serious performance credentials (0-100kmh in 8.2secs for the 2L), but a friend of mine has an Alfa Spider (the 1999 Twin Spark 2-litre one) and she's complained of little niggling problems (passenger airbag light turning on, engine revving at red lights, etc etc - little annoying things like that).

This is the one I'm talking about:

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Conte...0/8n9gtvfp.jpg

I've done my math and it's either going to be an Alfa Romeo GTV (2L Twin Spark) or a Volkswagen Bora (Jetta in US) V6 4Motion which does 0-100 in 7.3 secs and has luxury everything (kicks the ass of the BMW 318, 320 and the Mercedes C-Class that are similarly priced). This one:

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Conte...0/cu5borfd.jpg

I know the Volks is going to be reliable and will have a good resale at the end of the lease, and is obviously more practical, bigger, has a bigger boot, space for five adults (as opposed to 2 adults and 2 kids for the Alfa), performs better overall, has 4 wheel drive, luxury everything (since it's the top of the range Bora), etc. as opposed to the Alfa which has a tiny back seat, no luggage space, no central locking, etc. - but the Alfa is kind of like an emotional choice - it's an Alfa - look at it!! It drives like a dream apparently and looks like one too. :D

Anyone here have a "newish" Alfa? If so, what was your experience with it?

The Alfa definately wins the looks contest!

I hope someone here can relate their experiences, but it's kind of hard to judge. Several years ago, I bought a new Dodge truck despite the horrible experiences of a co-worker with Dodge. She did everything she could to talk me out of buying a Dodge and couldn't believe I'd bought such a "lemon". I owned that truck for 5 years and never did anything more to it than changing the oil and feeding it gas. ;)

You never know.

[ 10-09-2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

I know...this is going to be one of those tough practicality vs. emotion decisions... [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img]

It's tough!

No matter which choice you make, you'll probably think, well the other car would have been better for this or that or the other thing.

The good thing is that they are both awesome [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ 10-09-2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

I dont know much about cars but the Bora aint that bad looking!

Both are nice cars! I was looking at the V. Golf or Passat myself

BUT... my babies are below:

I like this one....
http://www.audi.com/imgs/com/en/new_...8248332699.jpg

BUT, I LOVE this one! It's 32K though [img]smile.gif[/img]
http://www.audiusa.com/common/images...odel_coupe.jpg

http://www.audiusa.com/common/images...ttcoupe_lg.jpg

[ 10-09-2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

If your going with Alfa, prepare for some major dissapointments. My brother has one, and had gearproblems a couple of times, that's THE infamous Alfa bug. There you are, standing in front of a red light in a beautiful car, the light turns green, and your car refuses to move. :D Very annoying at the least.

Don't drive, but just in case anyone missed them the first time round, here are my beautiful scooters....

My Vespa ET4 125:

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/727099.jpg

And my 1969/70 Lambretta GP(DL) 125:

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/786427.jpg

Good luck making a decision Memsie! But whatever you get, it won't turn as many heads as a scooter does! Not kidding, everyone wants to talk to you when they see a scoot.

I looked at the Audi TT as well, Z. Awesome performance and major street cred...but it's $80k here. [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img] Maybe I'll live on McDonalds for 4 years or something. :D

Despite the fact that the Bora is ahead in practically every measurable category against the Alfa, I'm kinda leaning towards the Alfa, believe it or not - I'm one of those impulsive people and I like my car to be a bit different - which is why I'm not considering the standard Beemer. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

The other one I was looking at was the Mercedes Benz C180K Coupe, which is similarly priced ($A 55k or $2200 pretax per month) but 0-100 is 11 seconds, which is well out of this league. I want my car to have a bit of go, not just a bit of show. :D

Not overhere Epona. Overhere they're only annoying, especially the ones with the build in stereos. the sound that comes out of it is totally screwed up, all you hear is boom boom boom boom boom boom. And the people that drive em here aren't all that cautious either, if you don't watch yourself they bump you right of the pavement. :D

Well, the other thing that's complicating my decision (it shouldn't, but it is) is the fact that my folks come down to Sydney one every 12-18 months, during which case I need to ferry them around. I'm currently driving a Honda (Acura) Integra coupe which my mother complains endlessly about how small the rear seat is (wait till she sees the Alfa kiddie rear seat) and about how there are only two doors, and how I should get a Toyota Corolla (which I will be happy to buy as my wife's car if and when I get married - a long time from now hopefully :D ). I can just hear the issues this is going to bring up if I get an Italian two-door, effectively two-seater car.

My sister's planning to trade in her RAV4 and get either a Toyota MR2 Spyder or an MG convertible which is STRICTLY two-seater so I guess we can take two cars whenever our folks visit - one for each parent. I can just see their faces when we go to mass in two cars. :D

I dunno - some might say it's a good position to be in but it's really giving me the shits - I don't want to make the wrong decision and then have to wait three years till my lease ends... http://www.pk-hq.com/community/images/smilies/1wut.gif

Built in stereos? Are you sure we're talking about scooters here? Never seen one with a built in stereo!
And what the hell are they doing on the pavement? Motor vehicles should be on the road. Anyone doing that in the UK would be looking at a hefty penalty.

Well here in the UK they are dead cool, I get loads of good comments about my Vespa - mostly because it has all the chrome on it which makes it stand out from all the gazillions of commuter-scooters about. People come over to talk to me about it, or wave at me/give thumbs up when I ride past.

[ 10-09-2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]

Yes Epona, i DO mean scooters. I don't know exactly where the stereo is built in, but you can hear em coming from a mile distance. It's mostly 16 year olds that drive them and the music they play on it is mostly hardcore house. They just drive those scooters a little wild overhere. Especially the pizzadelivery boys get involved in a lot of accidents because they simply ignore every red light just to be in time with their delivery.

Memnoch, as a mechanic, I would strongly recommend the VW. You are going to have significantly fewer problems with it than with the Alfa. I have a soft spot for Alfas and Fiats, love 'em to death, but it's a near-constant battle to keep either on the road. Alfa geartrains are less reliable than Jaguar electrical, and that's not a good thing. Having driven the VW and Alfa models you're looking at, the straight-line performance is quite similar, although I preferred the Alfa for handling in mid to high speed cornering. You likely won't be able to get the same service level on the Alfa as you will on the VW, and the Alfa will be nearly guaranteed to have at least one significant service call over the course of a three-year lease. It's a tough decision to make, especially when you become emotionally attached to the idea of an Alfa, but I think you'll be better off in the long haul to get the VW.
My $.02.

This is EXACTLY the kind of info I need - each new car road test will rave about the qualities of the car in the present tense, but I'm also concerned with how they go over the course of three years - and resale value, of course.

And that emotional attachment - it's all good, but at the end of the day this is $2k a month for 36 months I'll be shelling out, so I want to make the right decision. AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!! [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

As a mech, can you recommend anything else around that range, Absynthe? I'm a masochist - I'd like to complicate my decision as much as possible. :D

But, but Menmoch!! I thought you were going to marry me!! *puppy dog eyes for old time's sake* or was that Victoria...? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ;)

Good luck on the decision Mario! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Oh and I can attest to what Johnny says, scooters are mostly used by annoying adolescents here and yes, they do have built-in radios/stereos a lot of the times [img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img]

<font color=orange>GULP!!! Did you say $2000 per month? Is that US or Aussie? What is the exchange rate between the two? The payment on my wife's minivan is only $219 per month. I drive a '96 Toyota Camry which is paid off. BEST DAMNED CAR IN THE WORLD AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED! Of course, I'd like a pick-up truck, but with three kids and one car payment already, I don't see it happening anytime soon. :( </font>

Johnny, Melusine, blimey you learn something new every day.
Here you can only ride mopeds (under 50cc) at age 16 and that's what pizza delivery boys ride too. Now they are annoying!

I am sorry to hear that scooterists in your country are giving us a bad name :( Hardcore House, honestly. Makes me want to weep. You get a few House fans at rallies, but they're outnumbered 100 to 1 by mods and skins. Although having said that, with scooters becoming very trendy here at the moment it is only a matter of time before that happens here.

Mostly the youngsters here nip about on those little 50cc plastic jobs - not at all stylish. So it's easy to differentiate between them and the serious scoot enthusiast who ride mostly Vespas and Lambrettas.

I was wondering that myself Memnoch ;)

Being a member of the mod squad must pay great! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Honestly, I would recommend something from the top three Euro builders, VW, Mercedes or BMW, for the combination of capacity, reliability, amenities and performance that you're after. The Audi that Z posted a pic of is a fantastic car, but the price tag is steep. Have you looked into a Subaru WRX? Those are reliable, competent cars that can be outfitted for higher performance at a fairly good price - at least around here. Do your Mercedes dealers offer pre-owned leases? There's a couple around here that do, and it offers a nice in for a performance sedan at a lower cost than new.
Good luck on the hunt, Mem!

Can you guys get the new Nissan 350Z? Now this is a nice car for the money. It will probably hold up pretty well too.
http://www.nissanusa.com/m/cma/i/335..._gal_med01.jpg

or

http://www.nissanusa.com/m/cma/i/335..._gal_med08.jpg

You can pick up a well equipped 350Z for under $30K. The base is $26K. 287 hp and a 6 speed manual transmission. It does 0-100kph in 5.4 seconds. I'm about ready to trade my GrandPrix GTP in for one of these.

[ 10-09-2002, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: MILAMBER ]

I'll ah tell ya what I'm ah gonna do for ya right here today Mr. Memnoch.

I'm NOT gonna put you in a car for 2k a month...

NOT 2k a year...

NOT 2k at all, my friend!

I'm gonna save you some money and give you the Alfa your heart desires. This little baby has less than 200,000 miles on it, does 0 to 100 in an as yet undetermined number of minutes, and the dBay bid starts at only $800.

http://ebay3.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...be11/i-1_B.JPG

Why pay for new, when this quality job can be yours! :D

I really wanted to find a rusted pic up on blocks, but this was the best I could do [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[ 10-09-2002, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Well, I´m driving an Alfa Romeo GTV
http://willowix.tripod.ca/mycar.jpg

I haven´t had that much problem. Well, the rear light didn´t work at first lol. Some electrical problems arised when they installed the stereo lol. It´s a bit unsteady in curves (at higher speeds) but that´s all the problems I´ve encounted. The VW is probably worth the money and a bit safer too. This car was sort of an impulse buy [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Oh, and it´s not a family car lol! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

This is the 3.0 GTV V6 Lusso model..

[ 10-09-2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

Yeah I didn´t know that moderators get paid more than space engineers.. now I want to become a mod too.. which school do you need to go and how many years you need to take? ...

I would always go for the safer which is VW, although after bad experiences they annoy me. Before making the decision you will surely go and ask some better suitable forum too..? ;) It´s a nice coincidence that we happen to have mechanics here, too.

Hang on, hang on…before people start getting too excited, let’s put things in context here. :D

The $A 2000/ month equates to about $US 1000 on current interest rates ($US1 = $A 0.50). Keep in mind that cars are EXPENSIVE here, more so than in the US or Europe – for example a Toyota Camry base model will cost about $28,000 and a topline one close to $42,000.

And the $2k a month is not a repayment off a loan – it’s a lease payment which includes a) the lease itself; b) insurance; c) petrol; d) Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT); and e) servicing and maintenance. It can be broken down as follows (eg for the Alfa GTV which is $2200 for a 20000 kms/yr, 36 month lease):

a) lease - $1200/mth (@ about 6-7% interest rate)
b) insurance – included in lease
c) fuel - $150/mth
d) FBT - $950/mth
e) Servicing & maintenance – included in lease

Also, I will be paying this $2200/month out of my gross (pretax) salary – so in other words my taxable income will be reduced by $2200 per month (which will minimize the amount of income tax I have to pay). Since the amount I’m saving in income tax is less than the FBT I have to pay, I am coming out ahead tax-wise.

At the end of the lease term I will then have the option to buy the vehicle for whatever the residual is – which is likely to be at least 25% lower than the resale value of the vehicle, so I will also make money on the spread.

If I had to pay for this out of my POST-TAX income then it would be a different story – I would likely pay a principal up front and then have lower repayments, but would be paying some major interest charges on a bank loan, and after tax too!

Make sense?

The Rex? You can get the “standard” one for about $40k Australian, does 0-100 in about 6 seconds, but is the single biggest target of thieves anywhere (they use them for ram-raid robberies here). You can get the Sti version for $55k and that will do 0-100 in about 5 seconds (it’s quicker than a Porche 911) but the insurance premiums are shocking. Plus the appointments are a bit spartan and the ride is a bit stiff, and the latest model looks butt-ugly and bug-eyed. That’s why I’m thinking about the VW Bora 4Motion – it’s the thinking man’s WRX. ;)

Wow! That's a pretty cool lease agreement. Includes gas AND the payment is pre-tax. The only thing I can get pre-tax here are health insurance and retirement payments.

How'd you like the car I found for you? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Ahh!, now this is more like it! A thread about cars! Woot!
Memnoch, Alfa's are good cars, despite their reliability issues, however IMO, the VW Bora/Jetta/whateva is probably a better choice of the two, more practical and if you're getting the V6 4Motion, performance is not an issue [img]smile.gif[/img]
But have you considered any other cars though? Test drive a Mazda 6... What about The Lexus IS200? They are pretty luxurious, and they ain't slow [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-10-2002, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Bristowe ]

<font color="lightblue">I know absolutely nothing about cars (other than you drive around in the things), and yet this thread attracted my attention almost as soon as I saw it... I don`t understand myself sometimes :D </font>

Cars will become VERY interesting to you in a few years, once you get your "L" plates, Lennon... :D

<font color="lightblue">L plates aren`t a few years away, more like a few weeks [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Well, I was, madchen [img]graemlins/kissy2.gif[/img] but then I realized that you a) called me Menmoch [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] and b) you have been known to ~drool greedily~ at times :D , so I might consider it - but only if we sign a pre-nup AND you stay away from my car. :D :D :D [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 10-11-2002, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

OK, I just did a REALLY bad thing - I test-drove an Alfa Spider today (they didn't have the GTV in stock), took it for a half-hour cruise with my sister. Now I'm not just emotionally attached to it, I am absolutely head-over-heels in love with it. :D :D The pedals are in odd positions, the steering wheel is a bit big, the boot's tiny and the accelerator pedal's too close to the sidewall, but it's an absolute delight to drive. I love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it LOVE IT!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

*sigh* but the question is, can I live with it, 24-7, 365 days a year? [img]redface.gif[/img]

Calm down Genieboy :D Read this.

I can confirm two things: a) I'm not a blockie; and b) I sure as hell am glad I live in Sydney and not in rural Tasmania. :D :D :D :D

I think this one is a great car lol

http://home.no.net/taffer/van3.jpg

[ 10-13-2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

Oh hell, that article describes Guildford town centre after 7pm :rolleyes:
The 'blockies' (thank you for that term, I used to call them boy-racers) roar with screeching tyres around the roads that circle the bus station and the shopping arcade trying to impress their mates. The car park where I leave my scooter during the day of course exits onto this road, so I have to time my exit between the laps of their race, then gun it to get to the main road before they catch up with me!

Yes, Guildford qualifies as a rural town alright :rolleyes: