I need some help with some homework. Where can I find a periodic table that, somewhere, shows the atomic structure of the Elements? Thanks!

Does this site help? It needs flash, though.

http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/p...rtable_fla.htm

No...it needs to have a picture of the atomic structure for the elements that I can draw. Much like this, but this is completely wrong. (My teacher said so) http://chemicalelements.com/bohr/b0036.gif

Yes that is wrong. Let´s see if I can help you out some. You know the different designations of the electron configuration right? (K, L, M, N). K can only contain two atoms and fill up first. L can contain 8 electrons. After that the difficulty starts. You´re not studying quantum mechanics are you? I´ll just skip the theory for that lol [img]smile.gif[/img] . M can actually contain 18 electrons. BUT first it contains 8, then N gets 2 electrons. After that you can start to fill M again up to 18 BEFORE you add to N (this is called the aufbau model. So your example would be

<ul>[*]K-->2e^-[*]L-->8e^-[*]M-->18e^-[*]N-->8e^-[/list]Did that clear things up?

[ 10-06-2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

We just call the diff things levels, but ok...So it goes 2, 8, 18, 8?

EDIT- I'm only in Grade 9! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 10-06-2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Sir Goulum ]

<font color="lightblue">It does have Chemical Information ;)
Click the element you want, and scroll down to "Chemical Data", click HTML.
Under Physical Information, it gives you what you need to know:
Atomic Number 6
Relative Atomic Mass (12C=12.000) 12.011

That is from Carbon.

The atomic number relates to the number of electrons and protons both, the Relative Atomic Mass is the Number of Protons plus the number of Neutrons.

That gives you enough information to draw the nucleus, in this case there are 6 protons and 6.011 Neutrons, although 6 Neutrons would generally be accepted at the level you`re doing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="gold">EDIT: Ok, to quote from my science text book:
The total number of electrons allowed in a shell n and all those before it, is 2n².

Thus,

Shell Number (n) ..... Maximum Number of Electrons (2n²).
1 ..... 2
2 ..... 8
3 ..... 18
4 ..... 32
etc etc

Here the book starts getting very... wierd.
It gives a diagram of a Chlorine atom, with 2,8,7.

But from the table it gives, it should be 2,6,8 ... I have always learned 2,8,8,16; so er... ignore 2n² :D </font>

[ 10-06-2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

Willow has it right. It does get even more complex in a couple years though.

Each electron shell consists of electron orbitals, each electron orbital contains up to two electrons. 1 "p" type, 3 "d" types and 5 "f" types if memory serves. Which is probably dosent, and theres one after "f" which totaly escapes me. The designation isnt important anyway, the principle is.

Now, you know that shells have different energy levels, right?

Well, the orbitals within those shells also have slightly varying energy levels, and in the higher shells p type orbitals have less energy than the f types from the previous level. Since its, strictly speaking, orbitals and not shells that fill up in order of energy level, the "p" type in shell "M" fills up before the "f" types in shell "N"

Now are you glad that you dont have to study the theory behind all this for another couple years? Anyway, I usualy find it easier to remember stuff like this by learning the reason why, so maybe some of this will be useful.

16?! But Willow said it was 18!!! Oh I'm all confused! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yes Sir G that would be correct (not your post right above this one, but further up [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I found this for you, it has the number of electrons in ech "level" listed [img]smile.gif[/img] http://www.chemicalelements.com/show...onconfig.html.
You can´t think that way. The number of electrons in each level would be 2,8,18,32,32 etc. How they fill up is completly different... It´d be like this: 2,8,8,2-->2,8,9,2-->2,8,10,2.....-->2,8,18,3...-->2,8,18,8-->2,8,18,8,1. It´s all a matter of energy [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-06-2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

And just what element fills N to 16 before filling M to 18?

Actualy, IIRC, N can hold up to 32, but thats getting may beyond anything I officialy studied.

Isnt there one in the back of your book? Look at some high school chemsitry books they're bound to have one...

in year 9 all they want (to my knowledge) is 2 on the first shell, 8 on each remaining shell until you've put all the electrons on so instead of 2:8:18:8 (or whatever) you would use 2:8:8:8:8:2 at least thats how they taught me in year nine (about 3 years ago)

The above 6 or 7 posts demonstrate why Chemistry was my worst subject ;)

do you like the other sciences(pysics and biologie) though? maybe your just more of an artsy type. :D
personally its my 3rd favorite subject with maths 2nd and physics 1st [img]smile.gif[/img]

do you like the other sciences(pysics and biologie) though? maybe your just more of an artsy type. :D
personally its my 3rd favorite subject with maths 2nd and physics 1st [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, yeah - I'm a bit of a physics junkie. I did 4 A-levels - Physics, Maths, English, French. I did my degrees in Linguistics, though. If we had done a little more astronomy in Physics, however, it may have been a different story [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hope you got your homework donre Sir Goloum! WillowIX's advice is all you need at your stage, I think it's more conventional to draw the elctrons in pairs as opposed to single ones evenly spaced. (Study chemistry for another few years and you'll never see an atom the same way again, you'll also understand what Andrewas was going on about, which I don't think you do in grade 9...).

Hey Bruce the Aussie, you got the order wrong, it's Biology, Physics and then Chemistry in the oder coolest science first [img]tongue.gif[/img] Saying that, I did all of them for A-level, so I think they are all great.

Biology, blech. I once found a biology experiment in the Chemistry oven. Seems someones project involved rotting teeth and the biology dept oven was busted.

Still, I needed to dry some glassware. Carbonised Teeth :D

And then there was the milk going off at diferrent rates at different temperatures fiasco - err, experiment. Seems some first year snot (who survived our attempts to locate and dismember) decided that turning up all the temps on the way out at the end of day would be funny.

And the time some idiot turned off power to the biology department at the start of the summer holidays. 8 weeks with no power to the fridge.

Id reverse the order of the sciences. Chem rocks, physics is OK, and biology is a danger to anyone with a sense of smell.

<font color = lightgreen>Ooh! Electron configuration! [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

There are two independent concepts here: shells and orbitals. Shells go from 1 to 7 while orbitals are classified as s (2 electrons), p (6 electrons), d (10 electrons), and f (14 electrons).

Electrons will fill into shells and orbitals in this order:
1s 2s 2p 3s 3p 4s 3d 4p 5s 4d 5p 6s 4f 5d 6p 7s 5f 6d

A slightly more advanced investigation shows that electrons fill into the orbitals singly first, then join up to make pairs. That is, orbitals have sub-orbitals (for p, 3 orbitals in space following x-, y-, and z-axes).

Anyway, lots of good information from the posts here. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

Ungh! Chem! Yuck! As an Electrical Eng, I though I was done with Chem after fresh year, only to be sideswiped Sr year with Integrated Circuits ... all chem. And you can't really separate Chem and Physics, they relate to each other too much. That said, as I remember things Willow has it right. That is for a steady state atom though (confused yet?). It gets insane for varying thermo levels. Ignore the rest of us .... follow Willow .... [img]smile.gif[/img]

It really depends on the teacher. For instance, I have a really cool Physics teacher at the moment, so I think Physics is great. But Chemistry... *sigh*
The first two years (last year and the year before) we had chemistry, we had a teacher that was simply AWFUL. No one learned a thing, they all failed the tests which were actually incredibly easy. Only a few people (me included) who learned the stuff at home managed fine. After those two years, everyone in the entire class except me and another guy who simply *loves* sciences quit chemistry. I only did it because I had an empty slot in my schedule in a very inconvenient place (sitting around for one and a half hours in the middle of the day every Tuesday isn't my idea of fun). So I chose chemistry.
This teacher is almost as bad... I swear, before every lesson I think "Is this really worth it? Do I really want to inflict this on myself only for the good grades?" I am going to quit after this half year is over.
Just to show that it's very hard to say "I like this subject best, then that, then that, then that." I generally love sciences, but I cannot stand chemistry because of these two teachers. They completely ruined it for me.

Fair point Kaz, the teachers can really make a difference, but some people tend to have different interests, learn in different ways and so enjoy different subjects more or less. Well done for sticking with chemistry, try not to let them ruin it for you.

Andrewas and Bruce the Aussie, we'll have to agree to disagree [img]smile.gif[/img] except, can you honestly say you've never done a chemistry experiment that smells odd (especially organic)? and fused circuit boards in physics don't smell too great either... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, to discuss the original topic, Sir Gollum try
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/education/menu.pl

it's made specifically by age group- key stage 3, GCSE and AS Level so you know what level you need to go to and probably has other chemistry....links too.