Much.

The US Goverment either the sentate, Jr or Congress has given a private company the right to send rocket loads of post cards, time caps' and other crap to the moon, despite it being a list world treasure!!!
IT has no right to make such desion as the moon is not theirs, it would be like me selling mount Russmore to Japan.

What this company about? It about money it has stated itself that it has not sciencific intreseted in the moon it just out to make a quick buck!
The companies name TransOrbital, their own statement about this trip:
[qoute]... TransOrbital is the first company of its kind authorized by the U.S. government to photograph, explore, and land on the Lunar surface. The 2001 Trailblazer spacecraft's primary missions are to return HDTV video and other multimedia content from lunar orbit to market as commercial products, as well as the delivery of both personal and commercial cargo to the Moon. [/qoute]

Their site http://www.transorbital.net
The contact nuber to send abusive stuff too,
Tel: 858-455-5900 or 703-960-5953
Fax: 858-455-5979 or 603-619-5538
E-mail: at dlaurie@transorbital.net.

Frankly I have half a mind to vist the trash the launch but I know way of getting there .... Donations for my trash the launch can be sent to just kidding, I don't wanna do time@HAHABoink.tv

Edit forget to chance the thread name darn it, oh well it got you read it at least.

[ 10-04-2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Gabriel ]

Well unfortunately far as I can tell there have not been any particular worldwide laws passed re other planets, or moons, or other celestial entities.

[ 10-04-2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

Actually, there was an international treaty signed that said that no one country could claim ownership on the planets or moons. ;)

Hmmm, really? Didn't know. I'm surprised the U.S. would ignore a signed treaty. :( Does anyone have a link to more about this particular subject? Would be interested in reading about it.

[ 10-04-2002, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

<font color = lightgreen>As long as a nation doesn't try to make the claim that they own sections of the moon they are in accordance with the agreement. No one ever said "you cannot send things to the moon whenever you please".

Actually, creating a depository of cultural, intellectual, and artistic achievement on the Moon is a good idea. It ascertains that the collected knowledge of mankind will still exist somewhere, even if we don't. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

What are you complaining about? how many people have you sent up there?
Answer:0
so I guess you have nothing to say about what we sell the rights to. Just be glad we stopped building star wars weapons or at least we stopped shooting holes in the moon with the ones we have. Now maybe you'll be able to buy A ticket and fly there for the weekend and we won't shoot at you.

i'm all for it.anything to get people back on the moon.let private enterprise do it since the governments don't seem to want to.

Whats the problem?

The moon is not the property of any one nation, (Although someone a few years ago pointed out that individuals werent covered, claime the moon as his and started selling land there. AFAIK that lot have never been legally challenged), but that dosene mean anyone is banned from going there.

AS I understand it, the moon is free territory to be explored by anyone with the resources. Maybe when technology gets up to exploiting the lunar envrionment this will change.

It might be noted that no private company has gotten anything to the moon yet. The international treaties concerning the Moon and other extra-palnetary
bodies just says that no one will lay claim to the place. However, there is no law saying that if the US were to establish a colony and let it start to grow that we would have to provide access to countries that cannot reach the bodies on their own.

If this company manages to get this stuff to the moon, the worst thing they are guilty of is littering. If they manage to open up a huge market of privatized space exploration and travel by proving it can be profitable, more power to them. It is only a matter of time till mankind starts to exploit the resources of the solar system and that can only be a good thing for planet earth since we will not have to ravage the planet for ever scarceer resources.

Hey the moon is mine and all Ya'll owe me money for talking about it? I plan to harvest the cheese there and build bases to launch my evil space empire.

It not about making moeny from the moon, IT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE MOON IS A LISTED WORLD TREASURE AND THE BARSTARDS ARE PLANNING DO DUMP PONTLESS CRAP ON IT!!
It like turnning Yellow Stone into a land fill. What if in 5, 10 ,100 years from now we want to build on the moon but can't because it full of rubbish? It a crime against nature.

IT will ruin the lunar Landscape for peet sake!! Who would you like to look up and crap on the moon instead of it shinning surface?

As for you TheCrimsomBlade GET A CLUE!!! IF it because who got there first hell you yanks wouldn't be allowed in space, it' be russian;). People like you are why I vist this place less and less, pompus little git With your Oh th US is so high and mighty, is it no wonder people what to blow the ■■■■ out of you?

While i absolutely support your thoughts, you should NEVER say out loud what you think about America in this forum. Chances are you will get banned for that last part of your post so i suggest you Edit it. thanks.

Hey, take it easy Gabriel. I understand your strong feelings for this issue, and respect them. Just don't get so flamey OK?, ack I don't want to see you get banned. :( You can say the same thing you want but in a tactful way, I know it is hard when you are really upset about the subject, I've edited MANY posts of mine trust me LOL.

While i absolutely support your thoughts, you should NEVER say out loud what you think about America in this forum. Chances are you will get banned for that last part of your post so i suggest you Edit it. thanks.</font>[/QUOTE]Uss, that isnt true and you know it. People are free to critize America all they want. Hell, all you have to do is look at just about any Eroupean post on a hot topic and you will find plenty of it.

Oh and Gabriel, that last part there screams with jealousy.

No, there isn`t! Show me one thread where people flame america.

Try this one:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=0 11211;p=3#000056

Read between the lines my friend.

Beside, you missed my point completley.

[ 10-06-2002, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

Gabriel, chill out will you. US has plenty of faults, and any honest IWer (or EGer now I guess) will admit to them. Even most of the americans if the thread isnt too heated.

AS for polluting the moon : Get a grip. The moon has about 1/36th the surface area of earth. That dosent sound like much buts its still plenty. YOu dont complain about the lunar lander base units still lying around up there do you? Or the crashed probes? The american flags?

The total impact of this is no greater, and if it ends up opening up the moon for more serious usage all the better.

I have to say that for an American teenager you are very well balanced. You have a chip on both shoulders! :D

Ha! I'm sending my fleets filled with Space rats to eat all the Cheese :D

No country has the right to simply pull out a "I can dump my crap on the moon" policy out of thin air (or perhaps, somewhere else.)

It may be small amounts of rubbish at first, but if history is anything to go by, this will escalate. The moon could potentially turn into a dumping ground.

Using the moon as a world dump may not be a bad idea, It has no life, no air or water to polute, no endangered spieces. If we ever start mining minerals from the moon, we'll have to replace the mass of the matter we take from the moon. I'm not a physist, but it seems to me that less mass on the moon would cause a change in it's orbit over time. It would be great place to put nuclear waste, no worries about anything leaking into the ground water, and killing us all.

You are generalizing, cruel and harsh.
Consider that you may act worse than what you criticize.

Good point. Its not like the locals are going to complain. And if nuclear waste is going to go anywhere, where better than the moon? Of course, just dumping it at random would be no good. Youd want to keep track of it. Make sure that furture expeditions dont land in the middle of the stuff. Something like the pico vault in 3001 : Final Odyssey.

The moon may be a world treasure, but earth is slightly more important.

Good point. Its not like the locals are going to complain. And if nuclear waste is going to go anywhere, where better than the moon? Of course, just dumping it at random would be no good. Youd want to keep track of it. Make sure that furture expeditions dont land in the middle of the stuff. Something like the pico vault in 3001 : Final Odyssey.

The moon may be a world treasure, but earth is slightly more important.</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, we'd have to keep an eye on where everthing is, we wouldn't want an explosion is space and releasing any bad guys like in Superman II :D
I think the biggest problem right now is the chance of the rocketships having an accident.

[ 10-06-2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

Of course, the problem with using it as a waste dump is that it has little to no gravity.

I can just see, 300 years later, some alien spacecraft being knocked out of the air by a Snickers wrapper, and declaring intergalactic war. ;) :D

[ 10-06-2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: True_Moose ]

It has 1/6th G.Its escape velocity is 1 1/6 mile/second. More than enough to keep the snickers out of orbit. And its not like theres any wind to stir thing up.

There is orbital junk however, things that have been discarded over the years but theres been very little activity in lunar orbit. Might be a few bolts and that.

Compare to earth orbit where theres thousands of bits of junk and NORAD has an entire department devoted to making sure nobody gets hit.

<font color = lightgreen>The more I think about it, the more the moon poses some fascinating questions. With no indigenous people, no one can claim ownership. Since international accord prevents any terrestrial nation from claiming ownership, there is no government or agency with which to register land purchases for lunar property.
Since no nation can claim to own the moon, when permanent bases on the moon happen (someday that will happen, you know) will the nation own the part of the moon upon which the base is built? This will contradict the previous accord--if you cannot claim the moon, you cannot claim a subdivision of the moon.
Anyway, it will go straight to the heart of what "property" really means. You own your car only because everyone else accepts the fact that you do (except car thieves). [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

Gabriel, you've been here long enough to know which part of your post I am not happy with. It is the LAST part. I couldn't care less what you think of the USA - contrary to what uss thinks people have been able to constructively criticize the USA in this forum before, as long as they do so in a way that a) doesn't incite a flamewar; or b) isn't racially insulting.

But calling someone a pompous git and ranting and raving just because you don't like their opinion or the way they gave it is not the way that we interact with each other here. Just makes you look like you have no self-control. We don't have to LIKE everyone else in here - but we don't rant and rave and foam at the mouth at them just because we disagree with them. In real life that could get you a smack in the head. Cool it, please. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Maybe it will be like the National Seashore in Florida that we visit every year. You can't own the property, but you can lease it from the government for 101 years. When the time to renew the lease comes around, you won't be very interested. :D

Funny isn't it how topics like this tend to spiral out of control sometimes. I really shouldn't have to remind you all that we don't allow personal attacks, profanity, flamebaiting etc.etc.etc.

Calm down and discuss things rationally and we will all get along just fine. In the context of this thread, I would direct this reminder at Gabriel in particular.

Consider this a gentle reminder. If behaviour deteriorates, further action will be taken.

To all those who worry about the dastardly Americans polluting your moon. I suggest you put up a fleet and blockade the place before them damn yanks build a condo there....ooops, you can't ahh well, maybe we will let you hitch a ride on one of our ships :D

Ok its just a joke, It isnt as if the US is aboutto start dumping our rubbish on the moon and even if we did, we wouldnt be able to ship enough to put a dent in the surface area of the moon. You know even the mighty US space fleet has a hard time getting a few tons into orbit, let alone sending it to the moon. Besides the most reasonable dumping place is not the moon, but the sun, or mabe Jupiter...if we dump enough there we might be able to some day cause jupiter to go supercritical and warm up those cold moons for habitation ;)

[ 10-06-2002, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

No, there isn`t! Show me one thread where people flame america.</font>[/QUOTE]uss, we can't show you one thread here where people flame America because flaming of anything isn't allow here.

As Iron Ranger tried to pointed out to you, people are free to critize America here at Escape. You will see posts filled with criticism of the US on the first page of General Discussions and throughout the history of this forum, but criticism and flaming are two entirely different things.

[ 10-06-2002, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Magik is right. There is a reason why every ounce of material on spaceflights is taken into consideration - it's because to attain escape velocity, every single ounce requires a completely unrealistic amount of fuel. If we wanted to use the moon as the Earth's waste bin, we would pretty quickly be bankrupt, due to the cost of producing rocket fuel for space missions.

From http://www.sunspot.noao.edu/sunspot/...k/shuttle.html

-----------------------------------------
The Apollo/Saturn V combination weighed about 6.1 million pounds (2.8 million kilograms) at liftoff, and only some 110 thousand pounds (50 thousand kilograms) of that (namely the Apollo spacecraft) actually reached the Moon, so the Saturn V needed about 55 pounds (kilograms) of fuel for each pound (kilogram) delivered to the Moon.
-----------------------------------------

And when you start to talk about sending tonnes of waste to the moon - it ain't gonna happen.

True enough, but technology is better now. You can - if your willing to take your time - get to the edge of the atmosphere with a small payload for zero fuel cost (solar powered pathfinder aircraft), and the fuel and engines themselves are more efficient now. Im not saying that we could send tons of garbage to the moon, but tons of material and equipment might just be possible.

True, but then, people wouldn't argue about shipping useful materials there. It's just the snickers wrappers that cause problems. They get everywhere! ;)

I don't see what the problem is if they did put stuff up there. it will just sit there forever. Its not like any of us are gonna go to the moon and trip on it or anything so if the company wants to waste there money and send stuff to the moon i say go for it. Plus the US is screwy anyway.

Now that's the kind of Aliens I want to have a War with, we'll launch our SS(surface to Space) snickers wrapers :D

No, there isn`t! Show me one thread where people flame america.</font>[/QUOTE]If you have a problem with the Forum or me, you can take it up with *ME*. I am getting real sick and tired of your attitude. And the reason I have deleted YOUR USA Bashing posts were due to your love for the Nazi's. So don't go around posting lies to other Members.

BIG Difference uss. Grow up.

(To everyone else:) I may not agree with some of the USA Bashing--and some I do, but I don't BAN people for taking bad about the USA if they back up their post with facts.

[ 10-06-2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

You account has been suspended for 1 Month for the VERY rude comments listed
below:

-----------------------
As for you TheCrimsomBlade GET A CLUE!!! IF it because who got there first
hell you yanks wouldn't be allowed in space, it' be russian;). People like
you are why I visit this place less and less, pompous little git With your
Oh the US is so high and mighty, is it no wonder people what to blow the
■■■■ out of you?
-----------------------

I did NOT ban you because you were 'bashing' the USA, actually, I agree with
what you said, but it's the WAY you said it. I am very disappointed in you.

Cussing & insulting other Members, and making FUN of what happened on 9|11?
As I said, I am very disappointed in you.