Now i'm going to present my own religion, this is also the religion my bg cleric follows.

Energy is eternal, since energy cannot disapear, only transform into other sources. The world as we know it consists of energy, the flowers, wolfs and humans are all different shapes of the same energy. Our soul consists of energy, thereby our soul is eternal. Life is eternal because the very particles that made us will never abolsih. Our earth is the finest creation in our solarsystem, and we are consious beings we have the obligation to preserve and care for it. Destructive forces that threatens its existance must be destroyed.
There is no good or evil, moral law doesn't exist.

Where does the ideas of moral law come from?

Once upon a time, almost everyone believed in the existence of God. This God ruled over the world, He had absolute power over everything in it; and He had set down laws whichall human beings had to obey. If they did not, they would suffer the most terrible punishments at His hands. Naturally, most people obeyed the laws as well as they could, their fear of eternal suffering being stronger than their desire for everything forbidden. Because everyone lived according to the same laws, they could agree upon what "morality" was: it was the set of values decreed by God's laws. Thus, good and evil, right and wrong, where decided bu the authority of God, which everyone accepted out of fear.
One day, people began to wake up and realize that there was mo such thing as God after all. There was no hard evidence to demonstrate his existence, and fewpeople could see any pint in having faith in the irrational any longer. God pretty much disappeared from the world; nobody feared him or his punishments anymore.
But a strange thing happened. Though these people had the the courage to question God's existence, and even deny it to the ones who still believed in it, they didn't dare to question the morality that His laws had mandated . Perhaps it just didn't occur to them; everyone had been raised to hold the same belifs about what was moral, and had come to speak about right and wrong in the same way, so maybe the assumed it was obious what was good and what was ecilwhether God was there to enforce it or not. Or perhaps people had become so used to living under these laws that they were afraid to even consider the possibility that the laws didnot exist anymore than God did. Though there was no longer an authority to decree certain things as right or wrong, they still accpeted the idea that some things were right or wrong by nature. Though there was no longer had faith in a deity, they still had faith in a universal moral coda that everyone had to follow. Though the no longer believed in God, they where not yet courageous to stop obeying His orders; they ha abolished the idea of a devine ruler, but not he divinity of His code of ethics. This unquestioning submisson to the laws of a long-departed heavenly master has been a long nightmare from which the human race is only beginning to awaken.

God is dead - and with him, Moral Law

Without an objective standard by which to judge good from evil, my relihion is True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral.
My religion is atheistic, but does embrace the idea of the eternal energy.

My church could be called "Church of the eternal energy" or do you have a better proposal? Members of this newly born church are always welcome.

yeah, whatever [img]tongue.gif[/img]

My proposed religion is this:

MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

AMEN !!!! :D

whatever? You do not have to be rude u silly cow. Mooo on u to!

moo? MOOOOO!!!! moo moo moooooooooooooo

So so it is not cool to be rude any of you so calme down here! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

i think its a fantastic religion [img]smile.gif[/img] And it's all true too :D

MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah Lord Shield you knove that i have LOTS of cows here so maby i shall send some over to you and let them MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO all day long in front of your window! :D

[ 09-29-2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

seriously now. I once wrote "God d*mn" without the *, and got about 5 posts on how rude i was, bla bla. and now you're being really insolent against me. G* t* he**

NO!!we must all follow the one true god!MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

All this mooing made the thread drop off the page. :D

no insolence at all - the Church of Moo has been ongoing for over a year now

BTW, Megabot, as I said in your thread, twas a cow in front of a window taught me to moo properly in the first place ;)

Forget it Badet this is something that happen here not a big deal anyway so relaxe and forget it :D i read all that you wrote and find it kinda cool but not all peoples think the same way it looks like, i also made a strange topic here yesterday and i did not got ONE normal ansver to my question so that is the way it is here i think! :( it was about the cow problem i have here ! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

and why is my Church of moo nonsensical? because i put it across in a comical manner? I hate to disappoint you, but the idea of worshipping cows is no more or less valid than the energy stuff in badet's post

the whole point fo the thread was to prove how intolerant badet is of someone else's seemingly nonsensical notions before I pointed out the ludicrosity of his own ideas

The idea of this forum is for all to express their opinions, not for a few select members to kowtow to the original poster

[ 09-29-2002, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]

incidentally, without organisation I don't think you have a religion there anyway. As it stands, it's just another philosophy

BTW, Badet, you statedd that your religion is "all true" but all I read was circumspectoin. What evidence do you have to support these statements?

[ 09-29-2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]

Well. Replying "MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" without explaining further is definetly insolence. So, if i wrote "MJÄAÅAÅSFKÄAFÄASJFÄLSF" several times in your topic (perhaps i meant something with it, but that is irrelevant!) about the church of mooo, I would probably be banned, but the difference is that you got thousands of posts, and i got 30.

By the way, the religion i wrote about is scientificly correct. energy is eternal, because of that the universe always existed in some kind of form. Thereby our souls are eternal. And the difference is that i actually belive in what i write, my religion is athestic and worshipps nothing exept eart and all its wonders

Energy is eternal.Thats basic knowledge.

absolute rubbish. Banning is not handed out so lightly no matter the post count. If you can PROVE otherwise, be my guest

no it is not. you just saud "therefore our souls are eternal". At what point did you even prove the soul EXISTED?

What, may I ask, is your proof? Just because you've never watched Energy "end" or "die" doesn't mean that it won't or can't.

and the "god is dead" part, its just simile. God "died" when people dinot belive in him anymore.

if that's the case he's still alive then, because there still ARE people that believe in him - ask Yorick or Cloudbringer, etc...!

What, may I ask, is your proof? Just because you've never watched Energy "end" or "die" doesn't mean that it won't or can't.</font>[/QUOTE]Neb's got a point dontcha know, there's always an exception to a scientific theory. "For every positive there's a negative"-a quote from a certain scientist.

BTW Shield, your cow cult intrigues me, does it have a clergy? :D

LOL!!! well, it has had a large following (mostly of spammers that like posting in threads i open titled "Moo")

Professor Moo (I have a photo of this particular cow) was more of a mentor than spiritual leader ;) . I see myself as a prophet of this new church and shall bring much moo to the universe :D

What, may I ask, is your proof? Just because you've never watched Energy "end" or "die" doesn't mean that it won't or can't.</font>[/QUOTE]And where is your PROOF that it is not corect Neb?

why does he need it? he's not the one stating that "IT IS TRUE!!!!", Badet did that. Neb simply asked him to prove his statement. Neb isn't the one offering us to change our beliefs to some unproven blurb

and why is my Church of moo nonsensical? because i put it across in a comical manner? I hate to disappoint you, but the idea of worshipping cows is no more or less valid than the energy stuff in badet's post

the whole point fo the thread was to prove how intolerant badet is of someone else's seemingly nonsensical notions before I pointed out the ludicrosity of his own ideas

The idea of this forum is for all to express their opinions, not for a few select members to kowtow to the original poster</font>[/QUOTE]And what have this to do with what i wrote to do anyway? An the thing you say about the idea of this forum is to all to express their opinions yes they can do that if they have some things to say that even HAVE something to do with the problem the topic starter ask for not a damn stupid spam thingie all the time like in my cow thread none had any advice how to stop the cows to make those noises that is what i asked for in the first place [img]tongue.gif[/img]

why does he need it? he's not the one stating that "IT IS TRUE!!!!", Badet did that. Neb simply asked him to prove his statement. Neb isn't the one offering us to change our beliefs to some unproven blurb</font>[/QUOTE]And why not if he ask for proof then i think he should proove that it is not corect anyway i think!

"What, may I ask, is your proof? Just because you've never watched Energy "end" or "die" doesn't mean that it won't or can't."

Without an objective standard by which to judge good from evil. This realization was wery troubeling to philosophers a few decades ago, but it hanst had much of an effect in other circles. Most people belive that a universal morality can be based on something else than God, just like Neb.

In what is good for people, what is good for the society etc, in what we feel called upon to do. But explenation s of this standard necessarily constitute "universal moral law" are hard to come by. Usually, the arguments fot the existence of moral law is emotionall rather than rational.

"but dont u think rape is wrong" moralists ask.as if a shared opinion were a proof of universal truth!

the real problem with the idea of the universal moral truth is that it asserts the existyence of something we could really never know anything about, belivers of the moral truth claims that there are things that are morally true in the same way as the sky is blue or that water freezes at 32 degrees. But we can investigate the freezing temperature of water, me can then claim together that it is somekind of an "objective truth". On the other hand, what do we observe if we want to investigate if murder is evil? what is evil by the way, think about that. There is no tablet of moral law on some mountain top,if someone vcant offer any real evidence, why should we accept their claims as truth?
And regarding our instincts, if we feel that something is right or wrong for us, but that is not a proof for a universal moral truth either.Universal moral laws are mere superstition.When two people fundamentally disagree whats right and wrong, there is no way to decide who's right objectivly.
There is no universal moral code that should dictate human behaviour, there is no such thing as good or evil, there is no universal moral truth. Our values comes from us, and us alone. Whether we like it or not. So we should claim them proudly for ourselfes, as ourr own creation, rather than seeking external justification for them.

Lord shield, well, belivers in god these days are just a small fraction of how it used to be, if god isn't dead, he is atleast paralyzed, and hould be unplugged from the respirator

LOL!!! well, it has had a large following (mostly of spammers that like posting in threads i open titled "Moo")

Professor Moo (I have a photo of this particular cow) was more of a mentor than spiritual leader ;) . I see myself as a prophet of this new church and shall bring much moo to the universe :D </font>[/QUOTE]Professor Moo eh, I'll pass joining the cult. He's gotta be a brainwashing exploiter, can't trust cows...or penguins.

Badet, believe what you will that is your right. Make sure that when you create a religion you got all the bases covered :D

Sorry. Megabot, but i didn't understand a word of this. If you're on about your cow thread what did you EXPECT people to sya? did you expect a ton of cow herding experts to post or something LOL!!!

as for Neb's comment , he did NOT categorically state that what hwe said was true necessarily. If you think that, you got the completely wrong idea of why he posted that

the point is, badet stated, point blank, that everything he said was TRUE. Therefore we want proof

[ 09-29-2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]

If you think that, then you do not unnderstand the Nature of God. This is your prerogative, however

That statement could be considered as very offensive by many. It is to me anyway, and as for believers of God being a small faction what they used to be....

How the hell would you know?

Sorry. Megabot, but i didn't understand a word of this. If you're on about your cow thread what did you EXPECT people to sya? did you expect a ton of cow herding experts to post or something LOL!!!

as for Neb's comment , he did NOT categorically state that what hwe said was true necessarily. If you think that, you got the completely wrong idea of why he posted that

the point is, badet stated, point blank, that everything he said was TRUE. Therefore we want proof</font>[/QUOTE]No but i had waited that SOMEONE had any idea about the problem with the darn cows anyway here because it is 9000 members here and at last one must knove something about it!

erm... sorry to be a party pooper but what on Earth has this got to do with proving your energy statement? with all due respect, it looks like a load of gobbledigook to me that was quotedd from a textbook

and you still haven't proved the existencec of a soul mentioned in your earlier posts

[ 09-29-2002, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]

Badet, a question. What in the Nine Hells does morality have to do with my post? I will repeat myself:

"What is your proof that Energy cannot end?"

That statement could be considered as very offensive by many. It is to me anyway, and as for believers of God being a small faction what they used to be....

How the hell would you know?</font>[/QUOTE]We'll, the question is rather, how would you know? If you cannot provide any evidence att all. Why should you, or anyone belive in it? Im feeling that this may degenerate, so im giving up, there is no way to debate gainst fundamentalists, (ironicly, that is one of my points in my previous answer)

erm... sorry to be a party pooper but what on Earth has this got to do with proving your energy statement? with all due respect, it looks like a load of gobbledigook to me that was quotedd from a textbook</font>[/QUOTE]I concur with your statement Shield, aimless waffling doesn't prove a point...

Badet, you are the one claiming, therefore the burden of proof lies with you, not with us. Asking us to prove that we are right when asking you to prove that you are right is merely giving up and admitting that you have no evidence whatsoever.

That statement could be considered as very offensive by many. It is to me anyway, and as for believers of God being a small faction what they used to be....

How the hell would you know?</font>[/QUOTE]We'll, the question is rather, how would you know? If you cannot provide any evidence att all. Why should you, or anyone belive in it? Im feeling that this may degenerate, so im giving up, there is no way to debate gainst fundamentalists, (ironicly, that is one of my points in my previous answer)</font>[/QUOTE]No I believe the original question was how do YOU know, you are merely repeating what you did with Neb, asking him to rebuttle when you have yet to give him a decent answer.

Besides I'm in a greater position to say that religion is still believed and accepted by many as throughout history it has been an important and influential part of society, while I at least have something to go (by assuming it's the same as it has always been) you have no case unless you provide real figures that would indicate otherwise.

"Im feeling that this may degenerate, so im giving up, there is no way to debate gainst fundamentalists, (ironicly, that is one of my points in my previous answer)"-

There is a point in arguing with believers of a faith if you can have a logical and well thought out argument, not if you start proclaiming to the heavens "I'm right and your wrong because your opinion is bias". I often have debates with friends of mine who are Atheists and more often than not we are enlightened to each others opinion and we learn from the discussions that sometimes we are wrong in some cases and right in others.

In this discussion you have set up, there is no way either of us can benefit, we can only express our opinions.

Reply if you will but since you said you wouldn't I won't hold my breath.