I just went to play AD&D again and yet again im feeling very angry and sad..
OK, here`s what happened - The other night i made a minotaur, and he was absolutely great at fighting(THACO 12, +12 to Damage, 87 HP). We killed an Earth Elemental(Random Encounter) and maybe some other monsters, but then we met a White Dragon. That white dragon killed me(with his breath doing 12d6 +12 Damage every round) and another from my group but the others survived and killed it. The other dead party member was resurrected while i was not because she was more strong(i was lvl 4(due to all the previous deaths) and she was lvl 6). Then i made a human mage because he fit well with my shitty stats.

Now, the part that makes me so f***ing sad and angry, is the exp.. Each party member, except me, got 6800 exp for all the killing(the dragon gave 19500 exp!!!). Our DM makes it so that if i make a new character he has one half of the previous chars exp. Right now, i have a total of 4965 exp while ALL the other players got 6800 exp, which was added to their total..

im just very pissed off right now :( .. I have but a weakling that stands admist powerful beings.. its only a matter of time till i lose everything and die again..

[ 08-19-2002, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: uss ]

Your DM threw you a White Dragon for a random encounter while you guys were around level 4-6? Whoa.

Im no expert on ad&d encouner tables, esp not 3rd ed, but arent white dragon somewhere above level 15? To hard for a 4-6 level party anyway. Except for a quest target or something where you can prepare.

I dunno, but the point of the DM is to make the game fun, not make things as hard as possible. You might want to consider joining another group or perhaps just taking it up with him in private.

I would have to guess for any of the party to have survived the battle that thier must have been some modifcation on the part of the DM.Like it was a very young dragon,or allready injured,or maybe even just with reduced stats so an inexperenced party could have a chance.I have to ask and don't take this the wrong way I'm not accusing just asking,are you playing as your charcter would act or as you would act?Are you a low level charcter who should evade and use more stratigic attacks who runs in screaming with sword swinging going toe to toe with a superior foe?Just some things to consider,you could be playing correctly I don't know I wasn't there.Just rember especially at the lower levels or any time against a much tougher monster,a series of smaller smarter attacks usally beats an all out rush.A good way to think about it is this.If you (yourself) were hunting a bear would you do better in a treestand with a bow,or on the ground with a sword and shield?

We didnt really get any oppritunity to make tactical attacks - just run or fight.

it still drives me mad when i think that i have 4965 exp while the second most weak party member has over 15000 :( and as much as i know, our druid is level 7 because she hasnt died even once(lucky bastard! I died about.. 4 times!)..

What good would my weak lvl 3 Mage do? Even the F/M/T is 4/4/4 and therefore stronger in magery than my char is!

We didnt really get any oppritunity to make tactical attacks - just run or fight.

it still drives me mad when i think that i have 4965 exp while the second most weak party member has over 15000 :( and as much as i know, our druid is level 7 because she hasnt died even once(lucky bastard! I died about.. 4 times!)..

What good would my weak lvl 3 Mage do? Even the F/M/T is 4/4/4 and therefore stronger in magery than my char is!</font>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure about the rest, but that 4/4/4 added up makes 12 levels. Sounds like some favoritism may be going around. You might want to ask about doing some solo adventures to help "catch" up, if your DM will agree. If not, then he definitely has something in for you. In that case, I would recommend finding other gaming friends.

you could try and get your DM kicked out of the group if not many people there like him.

Uss, I hate to pee in your cornflakes, but why don't you just stop? You keep getting killed and you seem to be getting more hassle than fun from it. Or else stick to BG II or something [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You fought a White Dragon at what level?! Ummm... Are you sure your DM has a Monstrous Manual and actually knows what he's doing? I mean, that just doesn't seem right, not to mention that it was a random encounter. Maybe you oughta have a talk with him about what you're encountering unless everybody else is ok with it. He kinda sounds like he's inexperienced from the little I can learn from what you said. Like a lot of other people said, maybe you should find another group to play with or at least get a new DM or something... Asking if you could go on a couple solo adventures like somebody also said would probably help to. Just my 2 cents :)

-Jafin

Just a thought - solo adventures are a pain for everyone to run unless you can do them outside the regular playing time or have an assistant DM to run one of the groups. (Or a *very* good DM who can handle both at the same time) so a "Gift From The Gods" may be more appropriate. Perhaps a minor Ring of Wizardry bound to your bloodline or something. Nothing too overpowering, but something to give you a chance.

Of course if the other players havent raised some objections by now (having one character this far behind hurts the parties chances - do you have any idea how much resurrection costs?) you might just be better off with a new group.

Other than that, youll just have to think a bit more than the other characters. 90% of all deaths in d&d could be averted by a little thought and better use of spells/artifacts. Your DM may be trying to keep things frantic by insisting the people take turns quickly (The idea being that the caracters dont have much time to think, so why should the player), this should be relaxed.

Illusion spells are very good for this - an ogre horde cant charge across the bridge if they dont know where it is. An illusionary bridge 10 feet to the right means the caster gets the XP as well. Dunno if a 3rd level mage can cast an illusion that big though.

<font color="00cc99">I have one solution that never fails, punch your DM in the face :D , voilence solves everything [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

nah seriously, why don't you try DM'ing yourself. I'm sure your current DM wouldn't mind a break. Anyway, get his character all alone and throw an army of beholder's at his pathetic low level character eh eh eh.. teach him a lesson by giving him a taste of his own medicine :D , and if he asks why you were picking on him, say you were just trying to be like him :D </font>

My DM knows exactly what he`s doing - he has been DMing for years. He just likes to make it very difficult, but he knows another DM that is even more crazy :D ..
Arledrian, i disagree. im loving AD&D but the dying really pisses me off.

Actually, i`d be very ok with it if my whole party would die but if its just me and all the others get the exp and loot.. it really makes me quite angry

*punches Deathbringer in the face* hey, it does!

This doesn't sound fair, uss. Ask him for the solo adventures, as has already been suggested, or ask to start anew.

Sheesh your DM sucks, he should cut you some slack.
I DM for guys who just started out, and if they die I allow them to come back with the same character after the adventure, it has only happened once, because I also try to make it fun for then by letting them fight monsters that are about their own level...

If you continue playing with this DM look out for the Tarrasque in the near future [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="plum"><font color="orange">uss</font>,

I would say it's time to DUMP your gaming group and head for greener pastures. In every encounter you've described, YOUR character has been the only one permanently killed...and royally screwed on experience. I've read your different Posts and there is NO doubt that the DM is giving you the shaft...for whatever reason. He is plain and simply screwing you over.

For all the others that offered advice, <font color="orange">uss</font> HAS tried running from superior foes, he HAS talked to the DM about doing solo adventures, he HAS complained about his character having to start ALL over from scratch while the rest of the party keeps advancing merrily along.

The ONLY other suggestion I can give you is to play a truly EVIL character. When you party camps for the night and it is your turn to take watch....go around and slit EVERYBODY'S THROAT! You'll get mega-experience (if the DM truly rewards for playing "in character") AND the rest of the Party will be back down to YOUR level.

And since the DM makes your create a BRAND NEW character each time, the players can't justify bringing in a "posse" to exact revenge on your character. Their new characters wouldn't know ANYTHING about what you did to their predecessors.
</font>

[ 08-20-2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

Well when I run games, I usually let people have a way out if they really like their character so they don´t have to hassle too much to get a new one back. The 50% XP doesn´t work to well so we usually go with 75% from the highest XP in the group but less then the previous earlier.

Also, death should be in a game but not happen to the same person all the time, takes the fun out of it.

If you get resurected, you owe a church ALOT of favours.

Permanent death is ok every once and awhile since that is the course of the game sometimes. It also makes the characters a bit more careful about the characters. However, death by bad rolling in stupid situations have been removed from our game. If they die, they die because they try to be stupid er heroic I meant.. ;) in a situation where it is "suitable" and also acceptable.

The game is made to be fun, and if you can´t have fun in your game. You seriously should reconcider the group you are playing with.

Uss, I agree fully with Cerek here. It is ridiculous to put up with what you're going through. I can assure you, that is NOT the way that AD&D is normally played.

You've played the BG series, right? Did they put a dragon in the Nashkell Mines in the first game? Any Beholders in the Cloakwood? No way! You had kobolds and spiders. You never even see a dragon until the 2nd game, and then you're at least 9th level. It's called game balance. There is no way that 4th-6th level characters can reasonably take on a white dragon. That is absurd. It sounds like you have a mini-despot as a DM. Sad to say, a lot of DM's are like that...they take out their petty aggressions on their players and that is WRONG. I DM'd for many years, and I never threw anything out at my players that they couldn't reasonably handle. Especially not on "random encounters." Sounds like the DM is either A) Lazy, B) Vindictive, or C) both.

If you can, seek out another gaming group. Or try to find players online. There's http://www.webrpg.com/ for example, although I think they charge. There are others, though. You can at least get an idea of some of the options you may have.

-Sazerac

Having played in one of your game the words Gnome and poisoned lute come to mind! :D

Knowing what hes doing is not the same thing as being a good DM. Making it hard is no bad thing - but not to this degree. Two more points - in the rule book it advises, no instrutcts DMs to fudge dice roles so that more fun can be had by all.

And if I was DMing your party theres no *way* in the nine hells a White Dragon would be played just as a straight battle.

Even if it is a random encounter, there is no excuse for playing it as:

Oh, you encounter a white dragon 50 yards in front of you!

Instead, such an enounter should be more along the lines of you seeing signs of a dragon, having an opertunity to skulk past or make an attempt on it, getting a chance to get all your Protectiong from Cold spells ready and so on. Turn it into a mini-quest and make it interesting.

Once again, talk it over and see if something to balance things out cant be arranged. If all else fails start writing bonuses into your characters history. (When the next overpowering foe shows up you can casualy announce your putting on the ring of wizardry that you inherited from your father that is mentioned in the histroy the DM glanced over and approved)

Oh and players who would resurrect the most powerful character over the player who keeps getting shafted deserve things I cant go into here.

<font color="plum">Aye, and there's the rub, <font color="cyan">andrewas</font>.

I don't think they DID resurrect "the most powerful" character.

<font color="orange">uss</font> - What CLASS was the other character? Even if he/she is two levels higher, I seriously doubt they have 87 hit points and are +12 to damage. That's extremely powerful (at least for melee')

Secondly - HOW is a dragon able to do 12d6+12 EACH ROUND???? In 1st Edition, dragons could only use their breath 3 times per day. I agree that's WAAAAAY too weak.....but using their breath EVERY ROUND is WAAAAY too strong. Any dragon that can deal out THAT kind of damage should be facing a 15-20 level party!

I don't play evil characters, but I still say you should just kill them all. According to AD&D rules (1st Edition again, I admit), you can kill one "helpless" victim PER SEGMENT! THAT'S 10 PER ROUND!......and sleeping characters ARE considered "helpless". You don't have to "roll to hit". They are asleep and immobile.....the "hit" is automatic.

I'm serious, <font color="orange">uss</font>. If the DM ISN'T out to "just screw YOU over", then he cannot penalize you for killing the party. Now, there's a good chance you'll meet another random mega-beast on the way home and get killed again......so wait until you're spending the night in an inn.

If the DM doesn't allow you to do that, or the entire party "suddenly" wakes up and discovers your treachery......well, that should answer a LOT of questions.

Sorry, man, but it sounds like the DM and the REST of the group are treating you like the proverbial "yard dog".....simply beating you senseless everytime you turn around.</font>

[ 08-20-2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

I assumed 12d6+12 damage was a typo. 24-84 damage, no dragon does *that* much. Not every round anyway. *one* hit from that will kill most level 4-6 level characters outright, and magic users probably get chunked into the bargain.

I dunno, but I seriously doubt the rest of the party is good enough to beat that without some discreet DM assistance.

By any chance, does the DM have a habit of making roles where you cant see them? If so hes probably manipulating the results, which all DMs do to some extent, but if your continualy getting screwed it does raise questions. Certainly you should demand to see any dice that result in instadeath.

One other suggestion - dragons and most other major monsters are inteligent and can be negotiated with. If the rest of the party can be restrained long enough the DM should at least let you attempt it.(Do /not/ attempt to intimidate it, be respectful and do not even sound like you think you could take it. If your *very* lucky it may decide to part with some artifact or other) If he instantly goes into "fry uss" mode then you know somethings not right.

Okay that's just not fair.I agree with Cerek's idea to go witha n evil charecter.I really think the dm is treating YOU unfairly.

Umm. Alrighty, I don't have the 3ed monster manual, but... 19,500 XP and 12d6+12 breath weapon damage? Eh... at least in 2ed, that's a Great Wyrm. Any random encounter like that for a dragon is somewhat wierd, but a GREAT WYRM?! *shake* Also, agains at least in 2ed, a breath weapon can only be used one per 3 rounds, and the dragon can't do any other attack during that round... hmm... I like Cerek's idea. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Either that, or, probably better, find a DM who's not quite so evil/crazed/out to get you... *shrug* The rules he has for new chars seem pretty harsh to me as well, but... *shrug*

Hmm... or you can use what this quotation suggests, only slightly modified for you DM...

Dear Regdar,
My friend always roles a wisdom check every time his character is faced with a dilemma then attacks the party when he fails. What should we do?
-- Irritated in Indianapolis

Regdar says that you have a dilemma indeed. Regdar says that you should approach your companion, and explain to him that you find the use of a random die roll to determine his characters action to be frustrating, for it limits the potential for the group to enjoy themselves, and causes undo stress. Then Regdar says you grab his pet, or a family member if he has one, put them on the table and disembowel them, pulling their innards out and plopping them on his lap. Be sure to explain that his actions caused it, and the next time he fails a check it will be his turn. Regdar feels this will make your friend think twice next time.

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 08-20-2002, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

Uss your dm sucks. When I first started playing D&D ( back in the late 70's lol) my dm was a dice roller freak. Meaning whatever the dice said was what happened. My main character was a cleric with the worst stats ever played! I was allowed as many henchman as my charisma allowed (at first level lol) and my magic user had a Staff of Wizardry at 2nd level because thats what the dice rolled as treasure! Little good it did me because he thought using spells to kill was cheesy experience and only awarded experince for an actual physical kill. So it was ok to use a sleep spell and have a magic user kill them, but using fireball was cheesy LOL My 5th level(Deck of Many things exp) cleric & party(mostly 2nd level) soon met thier end when he send me to the Steading of the Hill Giants module (for levels 7-9 I think). That was all she wrote, I broke the staff of wizardry in the main hall as my last act of defiance [img]smile.gif[/img] I then rolled up a monk, made it to 2nd level and random encountered a fire giant. I think you can guess the results!

After that I finally got my own books and found out what an idiot I was playing with, but unfortunatly I had moved to another state and couldnt set him straight. Your dm is the same type of idiot I was playing with, get your own books and dm a bit. Then you'll know and can at least ask him what the hell he is doing throwing a dragon at a low level party. Its been a long time but if I was dm'ing that dragon would have EASILY wiped out everyone and thats not much fun if your a low level party with no real chance. Good luck uss!

PS-I sure did ramble on didnt I? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Having played in one of your game the words Gnome and poisoned lute come to mind! :D </font>[/QUOTE]Well, we fixed that Gnome up and go in no time eh? ;) hehe.

And the deaths were planned, no suprises at all.. *whistles* :D

And that Gnome didn´t roll the dice to well, and since you had the appropriate items to bring that Gnome back alive.. well ;)

Uss, try printing out this thread and presenting it to him. If he dosent believe you he can see it from the professionals.

Or he can come here and give his side, cos theres always another side to the story.