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Quote:

Yearbook photo flap erupts in Stratford

STRATFORD — A photograph on the cover of the 2002 Stratford High School yearbook that shows two recent graduates in what some see as a stiff-armed Nazi-like salute is causing a stir in town and has led to an investigation by school officials.

The photo includes more than 200 graduating seniors with their hands raised in the air or waving at a pep rally in the school gymnasium.

But among the crowd of students are two males standing side-by-side with their right arms stretched forward in a straight-ahead, stiff manner.
Superintendent of Schools Raymond O'Connell and Stratford High School Principal Daniel Hatch said Wednesday they are planning to interview the two unidentified youths, who graduated this week.

Hatch said the graduates will be asked what their intention was in the photo. O'Connell said school officials will then take "whatever action we believe is appropriate." "What is clear is that the students are making some kind of gesture that is offensive to many individuals and groups, but what is not clear is what their intention was in making those gestures," said Hatch. "We are taking this very seriously and trying to determine what the students were doing and how the photo got past the yearbook editors and onto the cover."

Hatch said the issue was brought to his attention by a student after the yearbooks were distributed late last week.

"It's very difficult to tell what kind of gesture the students are making and what it means," said O'Connell. "It can certainly be interpreted in different ways." But long-time political activist Sylvia Guberman, who is Jewish, said it is "very clear" to her that the students in the photo are giving the infamous Nazi salute.

Guberman, coordinator of the United Democrats of Stratford, said she lost 84 relatives in the Holocaust.

She looked at the yearbook photo with disgust Wednesday in her home as she held another photo of seven relatives, including her grandparents, who were killed by the Nazis in Poland.

"Not only is it an outrage that we have students attending Stratford High School who would make such a gesture, it is unbelievable and unacceptable to me that this photograph could make it onto the cover of the yearbook," said Guberman. "I can't believe someone didn't catch it." Guberman said she was advised by O'Connell that the school administration has been monitoring alleged neo-Nazi activities among some students at Stratford High School.

O'Connell couldn't be reached later Wednesday for comment on that claim.

No matter what the results of his investigation are, there are efforts under way to make changes to the yearbook cover, and make available the revised version for anyone offended by the photograph, Hatch said.

"We don't want any of our students' lasting memory of their high school experience to be scarred by something on the cover of their yearbook they find so offensive," said Hatch.

David Waren, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League in New Haven, said the group takes seriously any alleged form of anti-Semitism, bigotry or racism. He said that while he had not yet seen the Stratford High School photo, he would as soon as possible and then continue to monitor the investigation.

"But we have to be careful not to pre-judge this matter before we know all the facts and what the school investigation determines," said Waren. "However, if it can be determined that these were deliberate (Nazi) gestures, we would expect that some kind of corrective action would be taken."

I'm not supporting the Nazis , but it seems like the first amendment in the U.S. only applies as long as you dont upset certain groups. One of the people in the article was quoted as saying that "Not only is it an outrage that we have students attending Stratford High School who would make such a gesture, it is unbelievable and unacceptable to me that this photograph could make it onto the cover of the yearbook," said Guberman. "

Why is it outrageous for people to express a belief, even if it is based on hate?? Just because it offends certain people? If you changed "gesture" to "religeon" she would sound exactly like the neo-nazis she is attacking. Talk about the pot calling the kettle!!

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the kids in question actualy DID throw up a heil hitler salute. They probably did it as a joke for being forced to go to some dumb pep rally and throw their hands in the air. Now it is going to get blown WAY out of proportion. I also have to ask , would the "anti-defamation league" be all bent if an african american student was seen throwing up a black panthers clenched fist gesture in the picture?? If you claim to be against defamation , then you should either apply it universaly or quanify it with what particular defamation you are against.

Uh, I'm all for freedom of speech and such, but I believe that any and all nazi's should be killed. It is a filthy and hate-filled belief which only reinforces my faith that the Earth would be much better without humans..... One of the few people that I think I might be able to kill without feeling bad about it would probably be a nazi. Or a member of the Ku Klux Klan, to me they're equally disgusting examples of what humans should NOT be like.

Woah.I know that I would'nt do that in my yearbook photos!But I think that kids should'nt even do that,EVEN if it was a joke.

Thankfully Neb people like that are in the extreme minority. I wouldnt want you killing some red neck and getting carted off to jail

Hunter, what can i say, you're absolutely right.

Probably this was just a joke intended at the school that "formed" them... a lot of noise for nothing. Perhaps i'm wrong and these students are really endoctrinated.

Anyway, i find this a lot more freaking:
(from www.fair.org)

Quote:

Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting 112 W. 27th Street New York, NY 10001

A Changed President--or a New Repression?

June 17, 2002

President Bush's June 14 commencement address at Ohio State University was a sign of a "revived" presidency, according to Washington Post reporter Dana Milbank. "Bush basked in the adulation of 55,000 people who treated him to waves of standing ovations in Ohio Stadium as he received an honorary doctorate," according to the paper (6/15/02). "If there was a protest in the stadium, it was not visible to reporters."

In contrast, wrote Milbank, when Bush received an honorary degree last year from Yale University, "he was booed, heckled and greeted with a sea of protest signs." While pointing out that Yale and Ohio State are different places, the Post reporter asserted that "the real cause of the difference in reception is the transformation of Bush and his presidency since the September 11 terrorist attacks."

There may have been no protests visible to the Post reporter, but, as other media reported, there may have been other reasons for this in addition to "adulation" for Bush. According to the Columbus Dispatch (6/15/02), students were warned ahead of time they faced arrest if they showed any signs of dissent: "Graduates had been warned during rehearsal on Thursday that they faced arrest if-- as was rumored-- some stood up and turned their backs on Bush during his speech." The warning continued on the day of the event as well, according to the Associated Press (6/14/02): "Immediately before class members filed into the giant football stadium, an announcer instructed the crowd that all the university's speakers deserve to be treated with respect and that anyone demonstrating or heckling would be subject to expulsion and arrest." **

And some observers did, in fact, notice protests during the ceremony. As reported in The Lantern (6/14/02), Ohio State University's campus paper, "Three graduates and six audience members-- one draped in a Palestinian flag-- actually did turn their backs but were hardly noticed by the crowd of about 60,000." A demonstration held outside the stadium attracted a small group of protesters as well (Columbus Dispatch, 6/15/02).

None of this information made it into Milbank's report.

Expulsion and arrest! ...need i say more?

It could also have easily been a mistake as well.
If the shot had been taken .7 seconds later would their arms have been higher, i.e. did the photo get taken as their hands were going up as opposed to when they stopped?

I had a guy wave at me once, just throwing his arm up, outward and straight...it was convienient for him to wave that way from where and how he was sitting...I answered his wave in the same manner and the guy that was with us (me and one of my sisters) got all paranoid that he was in the company of Nazis. That particular incident was funny but to think people are taking this kind of paranoia to the extremes in the article posted is ridiculous.

IMO the person who chose the photo for the cover should be interviewed and asked why they thought it was appropriate to use it in such a closed-minded society as the one in which they live. They might learn something from the answer. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You're right, any group or point of view can be considered offensive to another group. Where do we draw the line. If you are going to give freedom to all it must be to all no matter how assinine the group.

Quote:

Expulsion and arrest! ...need i say more?

well,when you consider it comes from fair it's most likely a lie.because those are the tactics that the clintons used.

and all this bull about the school photo is probably just that,bull.

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:
It could also have easily been a mistake as well.
If the shot had been taken .7 seconds later would their arms have been higher, i.e. did the photo get taken as their hands were going up as opposed to when they stopped?

That's what I like to think as well... But alas, I haven't seen the photograph in question. ;)

DOHHHH !! heres the link to the article and the pic grolach

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site..._id=7573&rfi=6

Well, I have to be honost, Hunter, I have mixed feelings about this incident.

My FIRST reaction was to say "Hey, these are TEENAGERS!!! It's a JOKE!!!" Come on people, think about it. Teenagers enjoy testing their boundaries and doing relatively harmless things just for "shock value" (purple hair, body piercing, etc). This doesn't mean their bad, mean, or dangerous kids...it just means their kids having a little fun with social norms.

The picture seems to confirm this suspicion. The arms are raised, but the rest of their body language is the same as the other kids around them (head thrown to the side laughing, etc). If they were standing straight and giving a rigid salute, I'd be a little more worried.

On the flip side, the school has had some Neo-Nazi activity, so there IS some cause for concern.....IF these two boys were participants in that.

The Columbine killers were into Neo-Nazi activities. They even planned thier massacre to coincide with Hitler's birthday. So - in that respect - there is reasonable cause to question the motivation of these two boys.

However, for an entire section of the population to become "offended" is plain and simply an over-reactment.

Woops, underestimated the case in my first post. Those guys might be real freaks. Now that's up to the state's law to decide wether or not it is a crime to publicaly support nazism. The borders of freedom of speech varies from place to place and there are good arguments for both side.

Khazadman, this ain't coming from FAIR. I read it there, but this was reported by the student journal and Associated Press. Don't know if i can trust the student journal, but i know AP is not part of a worldwide bolchevik propaganda plot.

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna:
Why is it outrageous for people to express a belief, even if it is based on hate?? Just because it offends certain people? If you changed "gesture" to "religeon" she would sound exactly like the neo-nazis she is attacking. Talk about the pot calling the kettle!!

How would we feel if they expressed their freedom of speech by holding up banners which said 'Long Live Osama bin Laden'?

[ 06-23-2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Donut ]

Well , Donut , I can only speak for myself when I say that I wouldnt do anything to stop them.I probably wouldnt join in with them , but if you believe in freedom it must be practiced universaly , not just when it is unoffensive.

You can't pick and choose which is Freedom Of Speech and which isn't. Either you support it or you don't. Simple, isn't it?

Mark

hmmm - this is a tricky one

If it was merely a joke, ,there's nothing to be done apart from their parents maybe punishing them for being so tactless or whatever

But legally it's not really anybody's business

not an easy one to choose sides on

Quote:

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Teenagers enjoy testing their boundaries and doing relatively harmless things just for "shock value" (purple hair, body piercing, etc). This doesn't mean their bad, mean, or dangerous kids...it just means their kids having a little fun with social norms.

Hey, are you trying to suggest that im not a "bad, mean, and dangerous" person?
I resent that. I am to mean, and bad, and dangerous too!!! :D

[ 06-23-2002, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: slackerboy ]

Quote:

Originally posted by slackerboy:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Teenagers enjoy testing their boundaries and doing relatively harmless things just for "shock value" (purple hair, body piercing, etc). This doesn't mean their bad, mean, or dangerous kids...it just means their kids having a little fun with social norms.

Hey, are you trying to suggest that im not a "bad, mean, and dangerous" person?
I resent that. I am to mean, and bad, and dangerous too!!! :D [/QUOTE]Ha,and you aren't a teen either! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

Freedom of speech is one thing, but certain things just should not be done. The Nazi's commited a terrible attrocity, basically murdering an entire culture and cannot be forgot lest it be repeated. I can't see any decent human being wanting to repeat what the Nazi's put the world through for five years and even though it MAY have been a joke, it was a tasteless and cruel one that they should have known better.
I do beleive that history is still taught in school and having attended and learned that subject they should have known better than to salute in such a manner.
I for one, cannot believe that two young adults could be that insensitive all the while hoisting the banner of freedom of speech. If the Nazi's had their way, there would be no freedom of speech or freedom of any manner, so why would we wish to resurrect that. The fact that they are saluting in that manner is the double standard. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I see your point and agree with most of it Animal, but we shouldnt forget that history is rewritten by the victors of any struggle. The U.S. was content to let the europeans fight WW2 untill the Japaneese attacked Pear harbor. To listen to my grandfather tell it the whole thing was won by america all by itself, AND we fought the "evil" nazis from the start.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, feels, does or whatever. In the Constitution (the unchallengeable, undisputed) law of the land, it says that one has freedom of religion. It doesn't say Freedom from religions we don't particulary care for. Lets take for instance catholics (i'm a catholicjust to let everyone know). Theres been some strange stuff going on lately. Lets say someone blesses themselves and this is caught on tape. Noone cares. its the same thing with the nazi heir-hitler salute. We don't like it, in fact we HATE it, but we can't throw someone in jail for offending someone else, it not the way our country works. If we put people away and/or punished them for offending someone everytime it happened, our country would end up like that episode of Southpark [img]smile.gif[/img] . We also don't say that having a 30.06 rifle is ok, but it offends me if you have a German Luger because nazis used them, our system just doesn't work that way. You can argue all you want, but all I have to do is throw down that law of the land and the argument is over.

Case Dismissed...

P.S. I am in NO way a neo-nazi supporter and treat this act as a joke/accident/camera trick whatever until I hear from the STUDENTS what really happened.

strange, I just did a nazi-like salute in the streets, nobody bothered with me. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna:
I see your point and agree with most of it Animal, but we shouldnt forget that history is rewritten by the victors of any struggle. The U.S. was content to let the europeans fight WW2 untill the Japaneese attacked Pear harbor. To listen to my grandfather tell it the whole thing was won by america all by itself, AND we fought the "evil" nazis from the start.

Uhhmm… to a large extent yes.
But it is undisputed that the Nazis were a nasty bunch of evil blokes who can be stuck up there with Stalin, Khruschev, Castro, Brezhenev, Sharon and all the other nasty people ever.

Quote:

But it is undisputed that the Nazis were a nasty bunch of evil blokes who can be stuck up there with Stalin, Khruschev, Castro, Brezhenev, Sharon and all the other nasty people ever.

and just what did sharon do to deserve being placed in the company of men who are responsible for the murders of millions of people.so i guess defending your country against thugs who are killing your civilians is now some kind of a crime to you?