http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/sto...608024,00.html

Gah, why haven't they sent the army in? I love the supposed reason as well:
"he unrest was triggered by last Thursday's accidental death in Clichy-sous-Bois, five miles from Aulnay, of two African teenagers who were electrocuted while hiding in a power substation from what they believed, apparently wrongly, was police pursuit "

I see. So they ran from the police, then somehow got themselves killed in a substation. If ever there was a cause for a massive riot, this is it! :rolleyes:

Yeah, but big riots like this always get kicked off by random trivial incidents that escalate.

I don't think the army is the solution, but I do think that the Interior Minister is right to draw the line between disaffected youths and thugs - I think the flack he's getting for being hard-line is undeserved.

I'm not sure if using the army against your own citizens would do anything to dampen the situation, but they've just deployed a thousand police officers to the area (link)

We'll have to just wait and see I guess. It certainly is a stark reminder of the (oft-denied) conditions within slums areas around Paris, but given that the dispersal method practiced in Britain isn't so great at avoiding riots, poverty and dissolusionment either, it appears that the key to integration of Islamic communities within Western society has still to be discovered.

I'd also like to echo Morgureat's sentiments in another thread in hoping that all IWers living in that area are safe from harm.

Well, didn't it work for the race riots in the 60's? Also AFAIK, the Kent State shootings curbed the violence.That being said though, shooting the youths would probably be throwing gasoline onto the fire.

In America? Not to my knowledge...I got the impression that most crackdowns were followed by a legal leap forward towards black rights, almost in reaction.

But I could be wrong, my American history isn't the greatest.

Yes, but riots tend to stop when men with assualt rifles open fire. The fastest way to stop it is likely just that, just let the Army thin the herd.

I said the same thing at first, but i'm afraid will only get worse that way. Nobody really knows how many firearms the people there have, but take my word for it that it's a considerable amount. Right now it's just a bunch of teenagers doing the rioting, but sending in the army might be the start of a massive uprising. I think it's best to surround the neighbourhoods in question, and let noone in or out. Once there's nothing left to burn, they will probably give up, or they start killing eachother, which would not even be such a bad scenario.

Well then draw out the vipers nest. Idiot gangbangers with mac10's aren't a match for FN wielding Legionaires.

[ 11-03-2005, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

Looks more and more like this planet is headed for a full scale holywar. :(

History repeats itself... Humans never learn.

Actually, I wish some of what was happening in France was happening here, too. Most first world governments are in collusion and serve to preserve existing class and power structure. The whole system, worldwide, needs a giant enema.

I have many mixed thoughts, though. Europe is having to address something we've grappled with for years -- a large, insular, disenfranchised minority population.

Update: Disabled woman set on fire.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...457760,00.html

[ 11-04-2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

Friggin trash, against the wall with all of them.

How long is it before this type of the thing spreads to Belgium? The Netherlands? Germany? I don't see this in Switzerland (having each household have a weapon is a good detterant IMO), but in the other Northwestern European nation's I can definantly imagine this taking place.

Well, we came close to a hazardous situation after the killing of v. Gogh, but nothing compared to what's happening in Paris now. It's a totally different situation there btw, we don't have ghetto's like the ones in Paris, or other big French cities like Lyon and Marseille.

This came into my mailbox a couple of days ago from Jihad Watch about the Muslim riots in Denmark this week which have gone largely unreported.

Obviously the source has an agenda and a point to push, but it's news I haven't heard in mainstream media in the UK.

[ 11-04-2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

Think I read about that, from a non reputable source. Ach, Western Europe is turning into the balkans...

At least the Balkans got split up ;)

Well, if the Danish police can't even handle a group of 40 angry kids, they have their work cut out for themselves in the future.

I suppose if you're going to have mass riots, France is the place to do it. :D

Ok, I have been drinking a little tonight, so maybe I missed something, but the article seems to mention protestors, but not what they're protesting. (???)

To quote from the OP:
"he unrest was triggered by last Thursday's accidental death in Clichy-sous-Bois, five miles from Aulnay, of two African teenagers who were electrocuted while hiding in a power substation from what they believed, apparently wrongly, was police pursuit "

I've been drinking a little myself hoping to make sense of the world these days. I'm guessing two teenagers who figured they were being busted for something tried to hide out in a power station and ended up getting electrocuted? Nah, nothing like the US. I'd feel completely comfortable as a black teenager walking down the street in any US city.

It's getting worse, since last night there are riots in Rennes, Toulouse, Nice, and Nantes as well. Another 750 cars were set on fire in Paris last night. I guess the problem of traffic jams in Paris will be solved once this is all over.

Wow... what CLASS these animals have.

France needs to send in their army and kill the violent ones.

They think this way:

"I am poor and have nothing, so I want everyone to have nothing, and want my surroundings to be burned out as well. Remember, it's my land, so I wanna ruin it as much as possible"

Fools.

Yeah well, that's the good part....it's NOT their land, these are African immigrants.

Yeah well, that's the good part....it's NOT their land, these are African immigrants. </font>[/QUOTE]I know, and that is why they are fools. PLUS, the people of France PAY for their housing. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. And to think, many of these people fled Africa BECAUSE of violence....

[ 11-05-2005, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

Yeah well, that's the good part....it's NOT their land, these are African immigrants. </font>[/QUOTE]It's not the immigrants, just their sons. I wonder how this will effect the chances of the Front Nationale (the equivalent to the BNP in France) in the local elections.

UPDATE:
# Two nurseries, one in Yvelines and another in Bretigny-sur-Orgeand, were set on fire along with a school in Seine-et-Marne, the French news agency AFP reports

# A blaze in an underground car park in Suresnes, Hauts-de-Seine, left at least 36 vehicles destroyed

# An emergency services vehicle was attacked and burnt out in Meaux, Seine-et-Marne

# Several car torchings were reported in the cities of Dijon, Marseille and Rouen, as were violent attacks in Nice, Lille and Rennes.
SOURCE:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4409854.stm

[ 11-05-2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

There was a big march for peace that took place by ctizens of one of the affected areas - just saw it in the news, although can't find a link at the mo. A reminder that not all in the areas are resorting to violence.

Maybe its just a stereotype, but france has a lot of problems with racism. The BNP are these days regarded as a bunch of baseball weilding lunatics (with a recent documentary doing them some serious political damge) while the Front Nationale heve proved a major political force in recent years. It's also a country with a lot of immigrants, they used to own half of africa. They recon 1 in 4 french people have an immigrant grandparent.

Sir Degrader made a damn good point that it is not the immigrants, but their, children that are the problem. That is probably mostly true in Britain too. I suppose these people feel like outsiders in the only country they've ever known.

I'm probably giving them too much credit, the violent ones are complete shits after all. Part of me would like to see them walled up together and left to finish each other off, but that would hardly solve the problem. Justice and retribution are all very well and good, but if they cause more unrest in the process, you havn't done anything except make yourself feel better.

There is no solution I can see, because neither side seems to want a solution. You have to try to reason with these unreasonable bastards. Before regularly reading this forum I used to think the pathetic revenge fantasies that were posted in the political topics in general converstion were crude jokes. It shocks me that some of you seem to actually believe in such solutions. You're no better than they are.

[ 11-05-2005, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Melcheor ]

Oh, I KNOW I'm better than the violent mobs are. I'm not killing anyone, or burning the city and breaking the law because I cant get my way.

SOMETIMES you must respond to violence with violence. Sad, but a bloody FACT of life. Sometimes, its the only thing a human understands.

Do nothing? meanwhile, the city burns.........

[ 11-05-2005, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

Deportation works, though it'd be a pain in the ass. Makes one wish for a strong centralized leadership with the guts to follow through with the right doctrine. You could bet your ass that Pinochet wouldn't stand for it.

Imigrations great aint it? lol

Deport them to where exactly?

Deport them to where exactly? </font>[/QUOTE]I would think a jumbo catapult flinging them into the sea would do the trick [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Seriously though, as much as I post doom and gloom, dire predictions, and news on teh sad state of affairs within countries that have dealings with violent muslims, being proven right does nothing but fill me with sadness, I would love to be proven wrong once in a while when it comes to things like this...

A sad day for France, a sad day for western society, and a sad day for freedom when those who have given up their humanity attempt to use the freedom supplied by their host country to run amok. I remember asking during the riots that followed the Rodney King trial why the rioters destroyed and looted their own neighborhoods, they weren't harming those they thought were oppressing them, they were only making their own bad neighborhoods worse, I've been asking myself the same questions for the last 9 days.

All this would achieve would be to make more people violent, you'd have to kill them too. The people kill and riot because they don't get what they want. The army want peace, you are proposing they resort to the same tactics as the rioters when they don't get it. How then is the army any better?

All this would achieve would be to make more people violent, you'd have to kill them too. The people kill and riot because they don't get what they want. The army want peace, you are proposing they resort to the same tactics as the rioters when they don't get it. How then is the army any better? </font>[/QUOTE]Then tell me, how would you reason with a horde of people who are torching everything in their path ? Tap em on the shoulder and ask them nicely if they would pretty please stop their assaults ?

Deport them to where exactly? </font>[/QUOTE]They all have two nationalities, two passports. If they continue to be a menace, France could send them back to their country of origin, it has every right to do so.

All this would achieve would be to make more people violent, you'd have to kill them too. The people kill and riot because they don't get what they want. The army want peace, you are proposing they resort to the same tactics as the rioters when they don't get it. How then is the army any better? </font>[/QUOTE]Then tell me, how would you reason with a horde of people who are torching everything in their path ? Tap em on the shoulder and ask them nicely if they would pretty please stop their assaults ? </font>[/QUOTE]I bet no-one bothered to try that. :D Anyway, here is the latest:

French riots hit Paris centre

On the tenth consecutive night of urban violence across France, rioting in Paris spread from the suburbs to the centre. Youth set fire to some 1,300 cars as well as shops, schools and police stations, making the disturbances the worst in years.

In many cities police clashed with rioters in African and Arab communities. A number of people were injured and more than 300 arrested.

The French government is holding permanent crisis talks and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has threatened the rioters with long prison sentences. However, the minister has been accused of fuelling tensions by calling the rioters "scum", prompting calls for his resignation.

The unrest began on 27 October after two immigrant youths were accidentally electrocuted at an electricity sub-station while hiding from police.

(rnw.nl)

Arrest them. Try them. Lock them up. I know its difficult, but killing them (as so many have suggested) makes them martyrs to their cause. Deal with them in a fair way that doesn't create more tension, you're trying to calm the situation, not fan the flames. We all know how well the eye for a eye philosophy works down in Israel. Or...

...seems a very fair suggestion. However, it wouldn't work for those who's country of origin is france. Many of these people are the children or grandchildren of immigrants, you can't send them to a country their family hasn't lived in for a generation, nor would that country accept france dumping their criminals on them.

[ 11-06-2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Melcheor ]

Thats just rediculous. What else are they?..