Well,

The worlds biggest donors really shook the Asian "Tsunami" hit countries.

Here is the report HOW.

The USA "pledged" $857 million to the Tsunami hit but "allocated" just $366 million.

Australia "pledged" $739million but "allocated" just $136 million

Germany "pledged" $643 million but "allocated" just $126 million

Canada "pledged" $341 million but "allocated" just $125 million.


ISN't That Shocking?

On the other Hand JAPAN "pleadged" $500 million but "allocated" $552 million.


(Source:- "The Hindustan Times" India's Daily. )


No Offence Intended. :peace:

Here are TWO LINKS (plz copy and paste them)

Link 1 :- Link 1

Link 2 :- Link 2

[ 05-22-2005, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

well.. i am just grateful they gave in the first place.

I can obviously see two sides in this argument so I will not comment any more. ;)

edit: that an i have to leave in 2 mins. so cya :D

[ 05-21-2005, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Harkoliar ]

IIRC Australia's pledge was to span over 5 years. So they are a bit behind on that but as long as that money is allocated in the next 5 years budget its great.

Also to save confusion when making statements like that you may want to link to the website where you got those facts from. It makes it alot eaiser. So for the above claims you may want to link showing where you got the allocated funds from.

Cheers

It shouldn't matter, money was never the issue, the Phillipines even said that they didn't need their friggin money, because they themselves had plenty of reserves. What they did need however were skilled engineers, medical assistance, and transportation.

Which they got and many soldiers and engineers from all countries are still in the region helping with the rebuilding process.

LINKS PROVIDED in first Post.

But what i wanna say is that the Rebuilding state in Sri Lanka and Indonasia is real bad ... They NEED MONEY and when the WORLD DONORS are not Donating its real Tough for them.

Countries like India and Phil. refused donations does not mean everyone can Do without them.

No Offence intended plz [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-21-2005, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: a_decent_1 ]

This means they have finally decided to do with aprt of the money. The rest is still unalocated because they are deciding on where to best spend it. The reason that the money is comming out slowly is that if they flood the country with money then alot of it will be lost due to mis-managed funds or corruption.

The other article is from Aljazeera so I don't think I will comment on those findings since I have read alot of one sided articles posted on there before.

Also moveing this to the CE Forum.

Yeah thats True but we need to think on it also that it has been 5 months Since the Tsunami disaster, If the "allocation" process remains this SLOW, The number of deaths and Sufferings wld INCREASE.

But Don't u think just One-tenth of the Actual Amount "allocated" is just too Small?

This article says nothing about the millions upon millions of private donation money, nor does it say about other private organizations that are in there helping to rebuild, etc.

<font color=skyblue>Just what I was going to say. The afore-mentioned quotes of money are incorrect, meaning they do not detail all funds given by the countries listed,,,and as it was mentioned above, not all of it can be given in 24 hours...nor was it ever "pledged" to be given within even a month. It just happened in December, and the money is still pouring in, I am sure.

</font>

<font color = lightgreen> What utter bullshit

Australia "pledged" $739billion but "allocated" just $136 billion LOL

thanks for the biggest laugh I have had today .... Australia is a country of 20 million people how the *hale* are we going to have 739 billion $ of anybodys money to give away. </font>

quote from the link
Yet when I read the article .... "Australia, Germany and the Netherlands have all allocated less than 20 percent of their respective pledges of $739 million, $643 million and $309 million.

Australia's pledge includes up to $389 million in interest- free loans to Indonesia with the government saying that none of the loans had yet been granted. " .. end quote


<font color = lightgreen>So when has billion been close to million? ..... :haha: </font>

[ 05-22-2005, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

<font color = #FFFDDA > So taking into account that your whole post is a disgraceful misinterpretation of the facts (even the ones you linked too). That the dollar value quoted by your aljazeera link is not clear if it is Australian or New Zealand or some other countries dollar, and slags off countries heart given charity aid I hope to see some rectification or clarity on your view on the money donated so far and why it should be donated all at once or trickled slowly over time at appropriate targets.

Myself, I think a country the size of Australia to commit to giving a Billion dollars of government money to Indonesia on top of hundreds of millions of charity donations was stunning in the extreme </font>

I think a_decent_1 have mixed up "millions" with "billions". No single country have pledged even a single billion dollar of any dollar kind.

Australia did. Our government has pledged a billion dollars Aus$ (750 million US$) to Indonesia. A stunning amount, that is why I have the shits that our help has been called into question. Do people just expect us to hand over a cheque for a Billion dollars straight up? No way! Not with all the corruption that is rife in that country. The money is allocated over a couple of years and targeted where it will do the most good. A sensible decision IMO

The world is not constant. If it was we could whip out the calculator and say we need X engineers multiplied by Y salary plus Z overhead in administration divided by country factor W and materials cost factor V. However the world is NOT that simple. You make an initial plegde based on a very loose survey. However as more information is gathered and as the situation change this plegde may naturally change as well. That is a fact of life. Plain and simple.
The tsunami was horrible. I cannot fathom the extend of this disaster. It must not happen again and we must do anything in our power to see to that.
Also these pledges are NOT regular third world aid. It is NOT just money simply given away. I'll gladly pay and have personally donated a sizeable amount of money, but *beeep* it must ONLY go to assist the crisis and (most importantly) make sure there are counter-measures if it should happen again. And it WILL happen again. Tsunamis don't just stop happening.
The problem is phased
- Short term problems. Assist the victims.
- Medium term problems. Setup warning systems. Train personel. Reconstruction.
- Long term problems. Research and development. Structure models.
The problems must be sorted in that order. And we will do that.

You cannot just pile money on on a problem and make it go away.

<font color = lightgreen>The Pacific Tsunami center recorded the earthquake and suspected a large tsunami; they tried to contact various governmental representatives from the countries afflicted, but they couldn't get anyone to answer the phone.</font>

Hey Man cummon,

Don't Lay that Against "me"

We gotta talk ABOUT THE TOPIC. not the Topic starter.

Just found this piece of News interesting so Let u all know to discuss.

[ 05-22-2005, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: a_decent_1 ]

Well, my views:

1) It's morally wrong to pledge an amount to improve world standing but not to donate it. The amounts given increased directly in line with what 'rival' countries said they were giving - it almost looked like a process of 'outbidding', to be the 'best' donating country.

2) The gaps are too large to be explained away by overestimation.

3) Private donations, whilst commendable, cannot absolve the governments involved. If they say they'll donate, they don't mean somebody else.

4) Many of the corrupt governments in the region have been forbidding 'hands-on' disaster relief by Western countries. In some ways they 'deserve' to have less money.

5) Over-pledging is a chronic international problem and happens at every humanitarian event. C.f. events from Afghanistan to the Iranian earthquake.

[ 05-22-2005, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

Well said Shamrock,

I am sure The donations wld come in soon. And i really HOPE they do Bcoz Indonasia is in real Bad state. I've been there , Man ... It's hell. (which is one reason i am a lettle sensitive about the donations.)

I notice you have still not corrected the link length to prevent the screen scrolling horizontally from your first post. ;)

Also you have not adrerssed a previous point raised.

"Do people just expect Australia to hand over a cheque for a Billion dollars straight up? No way! Not with all the corruption that is rife in that country. The money is allocated over a couple of years and targeted where it will do the most good. A sensible decision IMO."

So please answer, do you think that a targeted response over a couple of years of a Billion dollars (aus$) is measly? do you think that we should hand it over without control over how it should be spent?

I also notice that you have corrected your billions to millions *without apology* but is there a chance to posty a link to "The Hindustan Times" that you say the quote comes from. I understand they have an english version of the paper.

<font color = #FFFDDA > Quote</font>
"The $1 billion is in addition to existing Australian aid to Indonesia, taking the total contribution to $1.8 billion.

Mr Yudhoyono ( Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono) was said to be overwhelmed by the gesture from Australia.

"(He said) he would never forget it," Mr Howard said.

The $500 million in grants will be directed towards areas of high priority in Indonesia and used mainly on small-scale reconstruction, while the concessional finance - interest free loans for up to 40 years - will go towards the reconstruction and rehabilitation of major infrastructure."

click here for source

<font color = #FFFDDA > Note that the above does not mention the vast private donation from Australia or the Australian soldiers who gave their lives during the rescue missions

Seems like some people have been reading headlines in newspapers and taking it as gospel without bothering to scratch behind the details of what was actually offered in the first place and insultingly dumping on what is unquestionably a stunning offer of generosity and long term commitment from a nation with problems of its own and only 20 million people to share the load ;)

Your comments on the above are welcome a_decent_1 it will be interesting to see wether you address them in detail or brush them off ;) </font>

[ 05-22-2005, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: wellard ]

Whoa, so you Aussies did pledged 1 billion Aussie dollars? My mistake. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-22-2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

G'day Wellard. I have fixed up A Decent 1's original link, as well as your post where you quoted the link. I would've thought you'd have noticed that when you quoted it, but no worries mate. :D

No worries Stratos [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] It IS a big donation [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]


G'day Wellard. I have fixed up A Decent 1's original link, as well as your post where you quoted the link. I would've thought you'd have noticed that when you quoted it, but no worries mate. :D </font>[/QUOTE]Doh! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] (Homer Simpson moment)

Good to see you around Memnoch, you've been busy I take it :D

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended)

G'day Wellard. I have fixed up A Decent 1's original link, as well as your post where you quoted the link. I would've thought you'd have noticed that when you quoted it, but no worries mate. :D </font>[/QUOTE]Doh! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] (Homer Simpson moment)

Good to see you around Memnoch, you've been busy I take it :D </font>[/QUOTE]Yeh, been busy applying to MBA programs. I will have some news to share with the forum shortly. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img]

More liberals looking for shi'ite to whine about. I don't hear the affected countries bitching.

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Well i have actually been through times when Others have taken my words , or say my thoughts as "Offending" .. So just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding i just quote "no offence intended".

Its actually to make sure that I am talking about the Topic and not the "topic starter" .. If i am angry , thats on the topic and not the Topic starter.

Neways, There are many things that are impossible, Like "Building a bridge along the Pacific Ocean"

Anyways .... how long u been here?

LOL ... always to the point Timber [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

And seeing as the first link is from aljazeera (like fox news for the middle east without the deadpan humour) ;) it smacks of 'west' bashing. I wonder how much money has been given (not pledged) by mid east or Far East countries?

Doing some research I find that many of the donations are of the deferring or cancelling / restructuring of previous loans to the countries involved. This makes great sense because it allows the affected country to free up some money and spend that money on how it sees fit and not have some overseas country telling the affected country what to do. Of course the negative side is that people can make cheap shots and claim that actual cash stumped up by the 'big nations' is minor.

A-decent-1, No problem at the moment, but for future reference, just saying 'no offense intended' in your sig or post won't solve any problems if anyone actually gets offended, so it's still necessary to be careful what you post. [img]smile.gif[/img]


My opinion on this is that the countries in need of help aren't making the complaints about not getting their funding so it's most likely not the issue they're concerned about as others have noted.

Hmm, I don't know, with sufficient recourses and time, something like that would be very possible, just improbable.....
But I understand what you mean, there are many things that are "impossible"

Ok taken,

I'll take care. But jus' to add "If people understand i am talking about a TOPIC and not their Country or Themselves, i wld never need to end a topic with no offence intended"

Anyways ... Wld try to not be offensive .. (am i offensive BTW)

Ok taken,

I'll take care. But jus' to add "If people understand i am talking about a TOPIC and not their Country or Themselves, i wld never need to end a topic with no offence intended"

Anyways ... Wld try to not be offensive .. (am i offensive BTW) </font>[/QUOTE]We are a pretty grown up group of people here and are generally able to argue about a topic not the person who has posted the topic. The people here are pretty thick skinned so you shouldn't have a problem with your topics. Just be prepared for people to argue back with you and understand that they are arguing with you about the topic.

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Well i have actually been through times when Others have taken my words , or say my thoughts as "Offending" .. So just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding i just quote "no offence intended".

Its actually to make sure that I am talking about the Topic and not the "topic starter" .. If i am angry , thats on the topic and not the Topic starter.

Neways, There are many things that are impossible, Like "Building a bridge along the Pacific Ocean"

Anyways .... how long u been here? </font>[/QUOTE]You only need to add "no offence intended" if you believe what you're about to say is gonna offend anyone.

BTW, I've been here since January 2003; it says so at the bottom of this post "Registred: Jan 2003".

yeah,

Nice to know people here are GROWN UPS. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Sounds like a quote from HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy

Vote Beeblebrox

The report appears to be ludicrous.

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Sounds like a quote from HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy

Vote Beeblebrox </font>[/QUOTE]It is? I really don't remember where I got it from, so it might be true.

Man, Just to add one thing ... I am really not sure about ur Signature .. I think there r many things that are impossible.. (no offence intended) </font>[/QUOTE]I have had that signature for years and I've almost forgotten I had it. I don't know where it comes from.

BTW, a_decent_1, you don't need to end all your post with "no offence intended". None is taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Sounds like a quote from HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy

Vote Beeblebrox </font>[/QUOTE]It is? I really don't remember where I got it from, so it might be true. </font>[/QUOTE]ooh look at the pyramid [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It sounds like something from HHGttG, the ship ran on probability, or the lack thereof, if you could figure out the odds of something happening the ship could make it happen.