Ironworks Gaming Forum - France briefed Iraq on US plans

Ironworks Gaming Forum (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/index.php)

- General Discussion (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36)

- - France briefed Iraq on US plans (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78643)

Or so it says in this report on Fox News:

Quote:

By Matthew Campbell (Sunday Times)

BAGHDAD, Iraq — France gave Saddam Hussein's regime regular reports on its dealings with American officials, documents unearthed in the wreckage of the Iraqi foreign ministry have revealed.

The first Iraqi files to emerge documenting French help for the regime show that Paris shared with Baghdad the contents of private transatlantic meetings and diplomatic traffic from Washington.

[On the reported finding, a U.S. government official told Fox News: "We have nothing at this time to substantiate it and have not seen the documents the story reports were found. We are looking forward to taking a look at the documents to see if they provide any useful information. [But] Until the documents are provided to the U.S. government or the British government, they stand as just a single news report."]

The information, said in the files to have come partly from "friends of Iraq" at the French foreign ministry (search), kept Saddam abreast of every development in American planning and may have helped him to prepare for war. One report warned of an American "attempt to involve Iraq with terrorism" as "cover for an attack on Iraq."

Another, dated September 25, 2001, from Naji Sabri, the Iraqi foreign minister, to Saddam's palace, was based on a briefing from the French ambassador in Baghdad and covered talks between presidents Jacques Chirac and George W Bush.

Chirac was said to have been told that America was "100% certain Usama bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks and that the answer of the United States would be decisive."

The report also gave a detailed account of American attitudes towards Saddam amid anxiety in Iraq that the country might soon become a target of American reprisals.

"Information available to the French embassy in Washington suggests that there is no intention on the part of the Americans to attack Iraq, but that matters might change quickly," said the document from folders marked France 2001 found by The Sunday Times.

"According to French information, a discussion about Iraq is going on in Washington between [secretary of state] Colin Powell and the Zionist [Paul] Wolfowitz [the deputy defense secretary]. Powell was against a military attack on Iraq whereas Wolfowitz was in favor of a strong military operation against Iraq."

The report noted that "the Israelis have informed the French ambassador in Washington that they have no evidence of Iraqi involvement in the attacks."

An account of a meeting between Hubert Vedrine, the former Socialist foreign minister of France, and Powell after September 11 also made its way into the Baghdad archives. Powell was said to have disclosed that he would raise with Russia the subject of its "co-operation" with Iraq.

Powell, the report said, "is going to ask the Russian foreign minister how Russia could co-operate with a country that had expressed satisfaction at America being subjected to such attacks. He is going to ask for a new draft resolution from the United Nations security council on Iraq."

Bernard Jenkin, shadow defense secretary, said the briefings went beyond diplomatic courtesies and pointed to French "duplicitousness."

A report last night claimed documents found in the headquarters of the Mukhabarat, the Iraqi security service, showed that a representative of Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network had visited Baghdad in 1998. However, a Western intelligence source said: "There have been contacts between bin Laden's people and Iraq's people in the past, but fleeting contacts and we have never seen that as a strong institutional link. Even if there was a visit it does not amount to an ongoing institutional relationship."

Oh come on.

You know anything that Fox spews forth is pro-american, pro-goverment and skewed so far to the right its not even worth considering as legit! 

[ 04-28-2003, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

I find that also very hard to believe.

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
 Oh come on.

You know anything that Fox spews forth is pro-american, pro-goverment and skewed so far to the right its not even worth considering as legit!

For once I agree with you. ;)

But, seeing the rather offensive, controversial and scandalous nature of the news presented, I suppose I'll wait for more official confirmations of its trustworthiness and actual substantial proof about the case before drawing any conclusions. As should anyone. And that's not just because it's Fox; if I found an article implying there were documents found which would indicate that the US is planning to plant fake evidence of WoMD in Iraq, even if it was from a so called "legit newssource", you'd like to see some more official and believeable newssources of it yourself as well.

[ 04-28-2003, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

Saddam could have watch TV between 9/11 and now, he would have had the same infos. *Shrug*. Not sure he needed France for that.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Quote:

Originally posted by Masklinn:
Saddam could have watch TV between 9/11 and now, he would have had the same infos. *Shrug*. Not sure he needed France for that.

How do you know this? Contrary to popular belief not all governmental planning is aired for the public...sheesh

It should be noted that Fox was carrying an article printed in the (presumably UK) Sunday Times.

C'mon MagiK...

Quote:

One report warned of an American "attempt to involve Iraq with terrorism" as "cover for an attack on Iraq."
[...]
Chirac was said to have been told that America was "100% certain Usama bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks and that the answer of the United States would be decisive."
[...]
The report also gave a detailed account of American attitudes towards Saddam amid anxiety in Iraq that the country might soon become a target of American reprisals.
[...]
"Information available to the French embassy in Washington suggests that there is no intention on the part of the Americans to attack Iraq, but that matters might change quickly," said the document
[...]
"According to French information, a discussion about Iraq is going on in Washington between [secretary of state] Colin Powell and the Zionist [Paul] Wolfowitz [the deputy defense secretary]. Powell was against a military attack on Iraq whereas Wolfowitz was in favor of a strong military operation against Iraq."

We are aware of most of this stuff since 9/12/01...

Who cares if France gave some reports to Iraq? Those reports were the property of the Government of France and they may do with their own reports what they please. This is woefully insufficient to make any sort of claim of "complicity" or even "espionage".

I highly doubt they will find anything useful or important here, but I know that there are some who will not let go of this. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by Azred:
Who cares if France gave some reports to Iraq? Those reports were the property of the Government of France and they may do with their own reports what they please. This is woefully insufficient to make any sort of claim of "complicity" or even "espionage".

I highly doubt they will find anything useful or important here, but I know that there are some who will not let go of this. *sigh* :rolleyes:

So basicly Azred, what you are saying, is that when governments share classified information there is no expectation of keeping things classified? That is soooooo wrong. If you want to say, give us secret info, so we can warn your enemies, you will find that most of your allies will guit giving you information....information you might just need to keep your own people alive and well.

Edit: Honestly I believe France will be embarrased about some things found in Iraq, but even if not, they still have quite few issues facing them over their actions in Africa....but Im not going to harp on them about it.

[ 04-29-2003, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
So basicly Azred, what you are saying, is that when governments share classified information there is no expectation of keeping things classified? That is soooooo wrong. If you want to say, give us secret info, so we can warn your enemies, you will find that most of your allies will guit giving you information....information you might just need to keep your own people alive and well.

Edit: Honestly I believe France will be embarrased about some things found in Iraq, but even if not, they still have quite few issues facing them over their actions in Africa....but Im not going to harp on them about it.

No, I am not suggesting that, because classified means classified. However, if the claim is that France gleaned classified military information from Washington sources and passed that info on to Iraq then France (or at least some agents thereof) is guilty of espionage, a charge I doubt anyone is willing to make.
What I am saying is this: suppose a French diplomat sits in on a strategy session, then later writes notes to himself about that meeting and decides to pass along those personal notes to a friend at the Iraqi Consulate. How is this wrong? At worst, it falls into a gray area that is not necessarily espionage.

Besides, I doubt anyone in Washington was discussing detailed military plans with anyone associated with France, given the French dedication to diplomacy over military action.

This is a molehill, not a mountain. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]