Note:- This is a military not political thread ;)

For the coalition forces to be fighting in the area of Baghdad airport within 2 weeks of the start of the war has surely been the results of brilliant military tactics and flexibility. Capturing every bridge they needed from Kuwait to the outskirts of Baghdad. Isolating the Iraqi army by destroying their fighting capabilities (tanks and trucks ect) and leaving them pinned down while the main thrust continues. Is any one else as pleasantly stunned by the progress of the coalition as I am?

My only concern is that because of incredible (uncredible) media pressure for instant results they may be biting off more than the can chew regards Baghdad

Quote from the BBC "Despite the government denial of coalition forces being near Baghdad, Iraqi officials reportedly told Reuters they had captured five US tanks and downed a helicopter during fighting near the airport, and promised to broadcast video on TV shortly."

Slow down guys time is on our side, lets not blow it now
Lets hear it for the armed forces [img]graemlins/jumpclap.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] I am!

[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

What worries me is that this is the end-game and that they are going to be facing the most desperate defenders in the dark. The lights are out in Baghdad and the pentagon says we didn't target their electricity...speculation is that the switch was thrown by Iraqi government officials and that this is where it gets really ugly. It is completely beyond me how any Iraqi with a weapon would go up against coalition forces after what they've seen them do in such a short period of time. Let's hope for the best.

Turning out the lights is not going to help. I mean for all purposes we can see in the dark.

I hope it goes as easily as possible

oh and they have done a VERY VERY good job, this has been the most un war like war ever thanks to superior training and weaponry

[ 04-03-2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Mordenheim ]

I don't believe that night vision goggles and gas masks can be worn at the same time. This puts the coalition forces at a disadvantage during the night-time hours but its not as if the sun will never rise over Baghdad again. ;)

Iraqi officials have been using loudspeakers throughout Baghdad, telling their citizens to leave their homes and to head in the direction of the Saddam International Airport. Whatever success they gain by having a human wave in between them and the coalition forces moving in is going to be short-lived and says a lot about what they think of the lives of their people. It isn't known how many, if any, of Baghdad's citizens are following their government's directions.

It HAS been a very un-war like war...as much as I opposed starting it, I can not say that I am not impressed. It has made me more secure knowing that our military is perfectly capable of protecting us on our own soil, if it should ever come to that in my lifetime...something I could not say with honest confidence prior to these past two weeks.

Yep! So far the standards set in TRYING to minimilise damage to Iraq and to try and keep civilian deaths to a minimum has not got the coverage or credit I think it deserves. With the press trying to sensationalise every minor thing that has gone wrong without stepping back and looking at the overall situation.

Though General Tommy Franks has not become the media darling like "stormin" Norman @1991. I think time will, if the war continues the same way, see Franks name be mentioned in the same breath as Patton, Wellington, Monty ECT.

Is that right? I would be suprised if there was not some combo but you might be right. Having said you are right but also the use of flares and other unknown toys I am sure could be used.

War like WWII etc are pretty much over. I mean with the power of sophisticated bombs and the scary threat of a nuke it really makes a world war different. Something like normandy will never be repeated. On a smaller scale like the Iraqi conflict it is really overwhelming. The hardest part is still to come and no war is without tragedy. It could have been MUCH worse. More have died in accidents of faulty equipment then by the enemy. With them trying to get us to massacre their own people they can only hold up a handful of cases. We have bombed day and night and people are still riding around because the weapon strikes are that on target. It has been very impressive. I am sure others have taken notice.

It just may come to that in our lifetime but if it does I would rather be no other place.

Nice cats btw , I got three myself.

I don't believe that night vision goggles and gas masks can be worn at the same time. This puts the coalition forces at a disadvantage during the night-time hours but its not as if the sun will never rise over Baghdad again. ;)

Iraqi officials have been using loudspeakers throughout Baghdad, telling their citizens to leave their homes and to head in the direction of the Saddam International Airport. Whatever success they gain by having a human wave in between them and the coalition forces moving in is going to be short-lived and says a lot about what they think of the lives of their people. It isn't known how many, if any, of Baghdad's citizens are following their government's directions.

It HAS been a very un-war like war...as much as I opposed starting it, I can not say that I am not impressed. It has made me more secure knowing that our military is perfectly capable of protecting us on our own soil, if it should ever come to that in my lifetime...something I could not say with honest confidence prior to these past two weeks.</font>[/QUOTE]Miss Lil Lil Ma'am,
Welcome to the darkside ;) [img]graemlins/starwars.gif[/img]

Same Same [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] One only has to think back to president Carter's well intentioned but embarrassing attempt to free hostages in Iran :rolleyes: The U.S. military has come a long way [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-03-2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: wellard ]

*curtseys*
Why Thank you, Suh!
[img]graemlins/starwars.gif[/img]
;)

Same Same [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] One only has to think back to president Carter's well intentioned but embarrassing attempt to free hostages in Iran :rolleyes: The U.S. military has come a long way [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]That had more to do with Carter then the American military lol [img]smile.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Yeah, that and the fact that I lived on Oahu in 1980-1981 and was friends with/related to a lot of people in the service then...alcoholics, pot-heads, drug addicts, dead-beats...I came home frightened for our safety and remained that way until now. :D

The (many) young people I know now or have met in the past four years who are enlisted are impressive and intelligent, dedicated and confident, something that was not so apparent way back when...I thank God and the military themselves for the changes in our society and in our enlisted personnel's training and treatment.

From what I understand from my room mate (honorably discharged 4 years ago) yes, but that doesn't mean that I am right, as there could be some combination as you suggest either produced or in the making.

There are a lot of flares over Baghdad tonight. :D

I can't comprehend a total world war until we, as the human race, have expired all of our resources and end up fighting over food and fertile land. Of course I can't speak for the Chinese or North Korean perspective of the U.S. and whatever power we are seen to have by the rest of the world, but like you, there's no other place I'd rather be. :D

Three cats! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Cool. :D Want another one? [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img] ;)

Thanks for the offer [img]smile.gif[/img]

I am one cat away from losing my sanity. The buggers follow me around as it is. They are more spoiled then most children.

Fighting over food and land. Now that is a scary possibility. I think by that time people will have no choice but to eat biofood. It can be grown very quick. As much as I may not like the idea it might not be a choice.

I am sure we will both be long gone though before most of these problems begin to manifest. It is a very interesting time none-the-less. Sometimes it goes so fast all we can do is hold on

I understand. [img]smile.gif[/img] We are ten over my personal preference as well...they are like kids....spoiled toddlers who follow you around, tugging on your leg and whining for attention...I thank goodness that no two of ours ever do it at the same time and that they rarely all do it on the same day or I would surely lose my mind. :D

Biofood and soy products...I read a book (can't remember the title) by Salem Kirban when I was in High School (late seventies) that seems to have been a look into our future...it scared the crap outta me lol. I'll see if I can find the title and edit it into this post. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I am hoping to be long gone by then...I keep saying that if I live to be sixty I am going to be pissed but I am nowhere near ready to let go of the life that I live and enjoy so much.

What is to come beyond the days of this present conflict intrigues greatly me for some reason...its like I feel something big coming...maybe I am just looking or hoping for some major changes in mankind that truly do give hope to everyone. [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: It had to have been 666/1000 or Countdown to Rapture...our mom bought a lot of books that she made us read when she used to make us go to church....Jesus' propaganda machine lol...she did good. ;)

books by Salem Kirban

[ 04-03-2003, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Lil Lil ]

Lil Lil you need a cat scan :rolleyes: :D

Back on topic though [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I've just seen the footage of the U.S. marine commander who outside the Ali mosque was confronted by an angry crowd gathered to protect their most holy of places. What a call to hold his gun upside down and to order his troops to smile and kneel. This is the sort of leader you need in hot tense situations. I foresee a medal and promotion for him in the not so distant future. Thinks of Somalia and realises that the military is learning fast. Shudders to think what a "hothead" would have done, and the carnage that could have resulted.

Actually it was the coalition, they wanted to clear the building of civilians to assist their attack.
--BBC

The power was lost during a US/UK raid. The Iraqi's have never cut power before during the daily raids - it would be strange for them to suddenly do it now. More likely the coaliton did it to give themselves the 'night vision' advantage.

Shame about the people in Bagdad's hospitals though...

Shame on any hospital without backup power generation capability. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color=orange>Skunk, me thinks you've had no kind words for the coalition forces at all.

That said. I think it's been a phenomenal sucess thus far! Hates off to the American, British, Australian and Kurdish forces in and around Iraq!
[img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img] </font>

Almost no hospital in Iraq has a generator (thanks to sanctions) but just about every hospital in Iraq has a supply of car batteries to serve as backup in power cuts - but they don't last long. :(

Almost no hospital in Iraq has a generator (thanks to sanctions) but just about every hospital in Iraq has a supply of car batteries to serve as backup in power cuts - but they don't last long. :( </font>[/QUOTE]Because most of their power has been wasted torturing people...yeah its a shame about the people in Bagdad's hospitals...

Coalition forces did not cut the power nor did they tell the citizens to go leave their homes and move toward the airport. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

As it is the Fedayeen has moved themselves into these people's homes to place themselves in protected areas closer to the airport.

I need a cat scan LOL! You know, I think I do!

Almost no hospital in Iraq has a generator (thanks to sanctions) but just about every hospital in Iraq has a supply of car batteries to serve as backup in power cuts - but they don't last long. :( </font>[/QUOTE]Well if the Saddam regime had spent what money it had since 91 on health and it's people instead of arms we would not be here having this argument ;)

But I was hoping that this thread could be saved the political debate as 95% of the other threads cover that quite adequately. This is a thread about the discussion of military tactics.

<font color= "cyan">How is Baghdad going to be taken and more importantly controlled? My sister spent a few years in the army (British [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) based in Northern Ireland during the late seventies at the height of the troubles and the few stories she has told me about that time are quite harrowing. Tho' the coalition may take control of a suburb and do a detailed search of each house, without doubt rifles, grenades and mortars would have been well hidden. Any patrol walking the streets will be an open target. The British forces have real life experience of this, but what about the U.S. troops? Will they be able to handle the pressure and the tactics? </font>

Well, U.S. troops have gone through extensive training in Israel, studying/learning the tactics that the Israelis use when doing house to house searches...going through walls rather than be seen walking down the streets, etc. Our higher ups seem to think that they have learned many useful tactics there and show a feeling of confidence in the men who have been trained.

I think the big question our military is facing right now is whether to isolate or infiltrate Baghdad...infiltration is necessary but if they isolate the city first and then infiltrate it through covert ops, they have a better chance of making progress and at the same time insuring the safety of the troops and civilians...the drawback is that it will take longer than just bursting in with guns blazing and I think we all know where that would lead...greater hatred on a world-wide scale toward this nation for trying to do something better for the Iraqis since the government officials of Baghdad are bound to (and expected to) sacrifice their citizens before they ever stand up and fight for themselves.