China must me pretty pissed at the way North Korea has been acting lately.. the nuclear 'brinkmanship' an all.. I'm sure plenty of Chinese weapons and materials come into North Korea.. and the PRC seems to have undertaken a 'twenty year plan' to quadruple it's economic growth by 2020 ..which pretty much has to mean... capitalists..

They are going to need the west's stern help in the face of such little brother tantrums from the likes of North Korea imo! Step up China!

I agree. I think the North Koreans did this when the World is looking at Iraq at the moment.. First Iraq, now N.K, and even Iran too! This 'Axes of Evil' is really making some noise..... It looks REALLY bad..

A fight with Iraq is an easy win, BUT... North Korea is a totally different ball of wax. they got a VERY large army. and are not afraid of us. scary stuff going on... :(

This is China's water chestnut to crack.

Interessting how different reactions have been towards Irag and North Korea (and Iran).

USA is treatening to go to war with Iraq over it's alleged development of WoMD while doing very little towards NK - cutting their supply of oil, which ofcourse is forcing NK to rely of nuclear energy - with it's 'waste' of plutonium, which in turn can be enriched to weapon-grade.

Cutting their oil supply will be pretty major. That's a long term solution that doesn't seem to have much short term gain. ;) It'll hurt them.

Reaction around the world has been pretty complacent towards North Korea imo. "Oh.. we could beat em but.. it wouldn't be pretty..let's just hope they decide not to persue a course that could lead to nuclear armageddon..." kind of attitude.

Put the pressure on the PRC to step up. They want investors.. the West doesn't want Nuclear Missiles.

As far as I know, China has failed to get NK to disarm... tensions between the two nations are currently rising. Especially after the Chinese cancelled an official visit of the North Korean President..

<font color="#ffccff">Cutting NK's oil will prevent them from doing much of the processing they would have to do to enrich the plutonium or uranium. You might be surprised at just how essential oil is to the processes of modern day life and weapon manufacture. You also have to see that NK has many issues to over come if it decides to start a war...first they have no real navy, second, there are several million land mines between them and south Korea, third, there are tactical nuclear missiles already aimed at them and fourth there is a rather dense concentration of anti-missile systems in place to use against tactical missiles that they may fire. </font>

How old is the lunatic running North Korea? He seems to have been "about to die" for years now.

<font color="#ffccff">I was thinking this very thing...why is it that evil despotic rulers always seem to live to be soo friggin old? Is is being a despot really the fountain of youth?</font>

I agree. I think the North Koreans did this when the World is looking at Iraq at the moment.. First Iraq, now N.K, and even Iran too! This 'Axes of Evil' is really making some noise..... It looks REALLY bad..

A fight with Iraq is an easy win, BUT... North Korea is a totally different ball of wax. they got a VERY large army. and are not afraid of us. scary stuff going on... :( </font>[/QUOTE]Ziroc, NK is a piece of cake also, unless China jumps in on NK's side. The only Card NK has is the threat of nukes. (The Alabama National Guard can take NK out) They'll make a lot of noise hoping Japan and SK will push the USA into doing nothing. Large armies don't mean much anymore when there is such a large tech. differnce between the warring parties. Until the Gulf War the conventual wisdom was any attack must be made with 3to1 odds (or greater) in the favor of the attacker. The odds in the Gulf War were about 2to3 infavor of the defenders, I don't believe ever in history has a smaller armed force attacked a larger force and walked away with such loopsided victory. NK knows this and are fully aware of the destruction of their country and any power they hold. The NK leaders were doing one of two things: Trying to get a better deal for their country, by claiming to have nukes, and oh by the way we'll get rid of them for more money, food, etc. Or they are trying to distract their people from the starvation.

I believe NK was bluffing, that is why they kicked the UN nuke inspectors out. They bluffed and we called them on it. Now they have to save face so they better come up with some nukes quick. They stepped into it why over their heads and now they're eating the fecal matter.

'The old Lunatic' (Kim Il-Sung a.k.a. 'The Great Leader') died some years back - 'The new Lunatic' is his son (Kim Jong-Il a.k.a 'The Dear Leader)

P.S. How nice - and communist 'monarchy' :rolleyes: [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Isn`t China allies with N Korea?

Won`t China take steps to support N Korea in order to prevent a larger western presence in east asia?

China doesn`t want a nuclear war on their doorstep. If they show their support for N Korea...then america would back off from any war.

<font color="#ffccff">In your dreams...and North Korea's dreams too. China is in NO position to back NK on this issue. They are doing their damndest to become an economic power in the world, they have even scrapped conventional communism recently to become a more capitalistic nation. It would be a political nightmare for them to intercede on NK's behalf on the nuke issue. This isn't the 1950's and this won't be a rerun of the Korean war. </font>

The Problem (as seen from NK) is the US retoric about the 'Axis of Evil'. They can see what is happening in Iraq right now, and maybe they are afraid that once that conflict is over, the US will turn their attention to the Korean Peninsula. To them nuclear deterrent is the only may to keep the US off their back. Don't fordet that tecnicly NK and SK is still at war.

Also they have offered to give up their weapons program in efor a treaty in which Washington recognize NK borders and right to exsitance - The US rejected this proposal, which only increases the North Korean paranoia.

I`m glad you said that, you "changed my opinion by debate" as it should be [img]tongue.gif[/img]