Guys, in future please refrain from using sarcasm or other forms of emotional language when discussing/debating an issue. Sarcasm can sometimes make one person look good at another's expense (even if this was not the intention). This is where seeds of resentment starts, and the other person feels they've lost face and need to "get one back".

We have been accused of a lack of impartiality since this forum opened, especially with respect to Yorick. Yorick and others (from both sides) were reprimanded for their actions on this forum, especially with the Brits thread. Would you like us to publicly lash Yorick? Is a public lynching and humiliation of another poster what people want? I am getting REALLY annoyed at this constant BS about double-standard. I have had ONE PERSON contact me and complain about how this forum has been moderated. I think I'm a pretty fair person, I think Ziroc's a pretty fair person, and all this BS about double-standard is quite insulting to us, to be honest. We have had ONE banning in this forum since its inception and I think as admins we have bent over backwards to accomodate everyone's views.

From now on, please err on the side of caution when debating an issue, to ensure that you don't hurt someone else's feelings. If you think that it emasculates the forum or makes it lose some of its *bite*, then so be it. This is a gaming forum first and foremost, not a forum for intense political activism (from either side). Surely we can be more like Ronn_Bman or Ryanamur (not in views but in attitude and way they treats others here irrespective of their views). I think that the way they carry themselves in this forum is outstanding and they are respected even if their views are disagreed with.

I will be recommending to Ziroc that we evaluate the long-term viability of this forum soon, as we have had more problems with it than with any other forum here at Ironworks. Personally I'd like to see it survive as it gives people an opportunity to debate more serious issues in a spirit of understanding and mutual respect. But whether it survives or not is up to all of you.


EDIT: Okay, I've changed the title of this post as maybe people misunderstood what I meant.

Thanks for the roses Mem [img]smile.gif[/img]

I totally agree with you, people should be more careful when they post on the forum. I've not been around as much as I used too (started working again... I was studying at home before) so I've missed most discussions.

When it comes to the public "spanking" of Yorick, I don't see why it should come to that. Yorick is a very intelligent man and I hope that the warnings will prove sufficient for him to change is style and not get to emotiannally involved when he posts. (no punt intended Yorick, if you feel offended, just PM me).

I, too, would like to see this forum modified so we can discussed issues broader than just terrorism. To that extent, we have already seen a few of those treads popping up (about the UN, Palestine and Genetic engeniering). That's great.

As far as the moderation goes, it's been great since the unfortunate banning of Dio (BTW, I hope that Ziroc and Dio will talk again and that he can eventually return to the forum... but that's really in their respective hands and I will respect the decision of both these individuals without pushing the issue any further). You (the Mods) have been pretty accomodating and tried to resolve disputes in a civil way.

Well, it's time to strole to work. See you guys again later tonight.

Phil

Good points Memnoch, I sometimes wish people would just not post instead of post something that's insulting, and remember, please, even if something is just mildly or not at all insulting to you, it MIGHT be MORE insulting to others, by the way, is Ziroc in a bad mood lately? I seem to be seeing more suspensions than usual.....

Putting me in the same company as Ryanamur is quite a compliment (absolutely no sarcasm in this) [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Ryanamur, I will say that I've never seen you post anything improper! I have found your posts infuriating because you disagree with me and at times make sense doing it, but never improper..lol. :D

I have gotten mad and posted things that I look back on and think, maybe that was too much". We're all human, but let's try to keep ourselves, not our opinions, in check. We can do it.

Thanks Memnoch!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
Putting me in the same company as Ryanamur is quite a compliment (absolutely no sarcasm in this) [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Ryanamur, I will say that I've never seen you post anything improper! I have found your posts infuriating because you disagree with me and at times make sense doing it, but never improper..lol. :D

I have gotten mad and posted things that I look back on and think, maybe that was too much". We're all human, but let's try to keep ourselves, not our opinions, in check. We can do it.

Thanks Memnoch!<hr></blockquote>


No, it's using us as exemple that's a very nice compliment. I must admit that I'm not perfect and that I've gotten into a "few" screaming matches (Yorick can attest [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

I don't have any problem with people attacking me (I can brush it off quite easilly [img]smile.gif[/img] ). However, I cannot stand watching others attacking their on-line friends (let's face it, if you post here it's because you like the people that make IW what it is). If I witness this, I become a "mod" and try to patchs things without the real "mods" getting involved. My philosophy is that since "mods" are not on-line 24/7 this give us the opportunity to clean up our act without them having to get involved.

We're all mature and we can avoid the consequences of a "bad posts" if we all work together! [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW: Thanks for thinking that it's a compliment to be included in the same category as I... I actually took it as a compliment to be included in the same category as you. :D (no sarcasm what-so-ever [img]smile.gif[/img] )

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Naked Wild Man:
Sarcasm is not an acceptable form of debate? Jonathan Swift must be rolling in his grave.

Emotion is not part of issues like war? LOL.

Okay, I had thought to participate in this forum, but forget it. I was participating in the thread in question, and Silver Cheetah's sarcastic comment was nothing that should bother anyone except the extremely oversensitive.
<hr></blockquote>

Of course it is, but not when it's personal, and some do take sarcasm personally. There have been problems with personal attacks here before, and that is the cause for concern.

Think twice about participating. I didn't think your posts were sarcastic. I didn't like them, but they weren't sarcastic.

Check your PM's!

Regarding sarcasm and personal attacks, I think the supreme authority for christians should be god, yes? Well, get a load of this:

from Job chapters 38, 39 (And remember Job was very ill, and down-and-out at the time)

And YHVH (god, Jehovah) proceeded to answer Job out of the windstorm and say:
"Who is this that is obscuring counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up your loins, please, like an able-bodied man, and let me question you and you inform me.
"Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you do know understanding...... (vss 1-4)
"Was it from your days onward that you commanded the morning? Did you cause the dawn to know its place?...... (vs 12)
"Have the gates of death been uncovered to you....? (vs 17)
"Have you intelligently considered the broad spaces of the earth? Tell, if you have come to know it all....... (vs 18)
Have you come to know because at that time you were being born and because in number your day are many? (vs21)
"Have you come to know the statutes of the heavens, or could you put its authority in the earth? (vs 33)
"Can you send forth lightnings so that they may go and say to you 'here we are!'? (vs 35)
"Is it owing to your understanding that the falcon soars up.....? Or is it at your order that an eagle flies upwards.....? (ch 39, vss 26, 27)

I could have quoted lots more, but I think the above makes the point. God himself is berating Job in terms of undiluted and highly effective sarcasm. At the end of it Job said "..I have become of little account.... I put my hand over my mouth..."

<H5>Anyway, if you are going to ban all sarcasm, you would be obliged to ban your god as well!</H5>

Hm. People might miss this in here. I'm gonna put it in its own thread as well.

Apparently sarcasm isn't only in God's providence:

"Sarcasm I now see to be, in general, the language of the Devil; for which reason I have long since as good renounced it," Thomas Carlyle

;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Argus:
Apparently sarcasm isn't only in God's providence:

"Sarcasm I now see to be, in general, the language of the Devil; for which reason I have long since as good renounced it," Thomas Carlyle

;) <hr></blockquote>

Well, if the two major actors in the universe can use sarcasm.....! [img]graemlins/evilhaha.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ryanamur:

I, too, would like to see this forum modified so we can discussed issues broader than just terrorism. To that extent, we have already seen a few of those treads popping up (about the UN, Palestine and Genetic engeniering). That's great.
<hr></blockquote>

I'll tell you what - the track record hasn't been good so far.

I appreciate that people have some very strong opinions about serious issues and that's fine. Please realize however that Ironworks is is not really a place for political activism - prowar or otherwise. Ironworks is really a gaming forum. The War forum was opened as a courtesy to GD visitors who were unhappy about the strong opinions and language posts about the war in the GD forum, so we moved it to the War forum. Sadly, the War forum is now starting to cause general resentments and deep-seated hostility between people - this never existed before the war forum was opened.

Personally, I'd like to see the War forum keep going and maybe develop into a Serious Discussion forum eventually - but it will come down to a time-cost-benefit issue at the end of the day. WE are the guys who have to pick up the pieces, try to put them back together, keep everyone happy and do all the work purely for the love of it so that ALL of you can post in a comfortable environment. I'm not interested in moderating a forum where I constantly have to settle the peace between people who can't see eye to eye. This is NOT what I signed up at Ironworks for. I hope you all realize that.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


Well, if the two major actors in the universe can use sarcasm.....! [img]graemlins/evilhaha.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Is this supposed to be funny, F? I don't find it funny at all. Obviously you don't agree with what I said. Why not say so directly, like SC did at least? What does your post above have to do with my point of not using sarcasm as it can demean others? Please explain to me the part that's meant to be funny or relevant to what I originally said, which I thought was quite valid.

Memnoch, please don't think that we are not appreciative of the amount of work that goes into moderating a forum in general, and a war/serious discussions forum in particular. I hope that the new PM feature will cut down on some of the "sparring" and move your job back to moderator from "referee".

Anyway, thanks for keeping the forum in place, I find it both enjoyable and informative...

Several times I've caught myself thinking, "Good point Ronn!" followed by reading a response and thinking, "Good counterpoint Ryanamur!" or "I didn't know that, thanks SC!" I like the critical thinking that goes on here...healthy debates are far more interesting than non-interactive forms of entertainment.

Just my 2 cents

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Memnoch:


Is this supposed to be funny, F? I don't find it funny at all. Obviously you don't agree with what I said. Why not say so directly, like SC did at least? What does your post above have to do with my point of not using sarcasm as it can demean others? Please explain to me the part that's meant to be funny or relevant to what I originally said, which I thought was quite valid.<hr></blockquote>

Ye gods, Memnoch! That was in response to a post by someone else! HE was trying to be funny (I think!) and so I responed in kind!
What's got into you? You don't normally pick up up on every triviality in the book!
I'll send you a PM

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


Ye gods, Memnoch! That was in response to a post by someone else! HE was trying to be funny (I think!) and so I responed in kind!
What's got into you? You don't normally pick up up on every triviality in the book!
I'll send you a PM<hr></blockquote>

F, you guys have the luxury of just posting. I'm the one who gets my inbox and PM box filled with emails complaining about one thing or another in here. I'm the one who has to keep everyone happy and check every thread for content, which I don't have to do with any other forum. Try and look at this situation from my eyes.

If you didn't plan to do this intentionally, then it's a pretty damn tactless time AND thread to do it in. You should exercise better judgment. What you did is like posting a "100 Great Things About Trolls" list in a warning thread that I've just posted to a troll. You know what I mean?

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, so this will be my final words. I trust the message has come through loud and clear. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You know, I don't get this double standards stuff at all.

I've been reprimanded in the past. If some of the guys are friends with me is that a crime? I actually listen more to a subtler rebuke from a friend.

Rebukes are all relative.

The most stinging word I ever got was from Absynthe. :( Bummer that.

Could I perhaps ask in as gentle a tone as possible, that people get off my case?????

Do we have so few hours in the day that we have to scan every moderators post to ascertain whether enough moderatorship has been applied to someone we disagree with? There is such a thing as emails!! Not every communication is public.

I thought this forum was a place of enjoyment and communication, not poison laced arguments. If I wanted constant criticisms I'd get a wife. ;) (Aussie wives are the most argumentative in the world according to a Singaporean paper I read yesterday... :D :D :D )

Anyhow, I've been posting in the I.W. BG forums of late - not here in ASB.

Getting back to why I came here in the first place. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:

Anyhow, I've been posting in the I.W. BG forums of late - not here in ASB.

Getting back to why I came here in the first place. [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Me too, actually..... but having long religious debates with you was MUCH more fun, lol! ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


Me too, actually..... but having long religious debates with you was MUCH more fun, lol! ;) <hr></blockquote>


Maybe for you. My relationship with God is more to me than just points to be scored or debated.

You were only ever looking at things from one angle, and I could never convice you otherwise. :(

All logos and no rhema for Fljotsdale....

Also certain people started ridiculing and insulting me and Christian beliefs, and I don't enjoy that at all. In the middle of yours and my "intelligent debate" threads too.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Zbyszek:


OOC: Whats wrong with trolls? According to Pratchett and new version of Middle Earth history they are great and peacefull (maybe little slow in brain - Pratchett) persons [img]smile.gif[/img]
I would say: hands off trolls!!! :eek: <hr></blockquote>

Zbys, a Troll is internetese for a rude, abusive, lewd poster.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:



Maybe for you. My relationship with God is more to me than just points to be scored or debated.

You were only ever looking at things from one angle, and I could never convice you otherwise. :(

All logos and no rhema for Fljotsdale....

Also certain people started ridiculing and insulting me and Christian beliefs, and I don't enjoy that at all. In the middle of yours and my "intelligent debate" threads too.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, that was a pity. People who have a genuine belief, and put that belief into operation in their lives by showing love for their fellow humans (and ALL life on earth) do not deserve mockery, but respect.
I disagree with some beliefs, as you know, but I have always maintained that Jesus was a great and remarkable man, and people who try their utmost to follow his example and teachings are among the best people on the face of the earth. Sadly, not all who claim christianity are practicers of Jesus teachings, which is one reason people mock believers. Another reason is that they are actually lacking in real knowledge of what Jesus taught.
I like watching/listening to quiz programmes and I am horrified by how often a simple question about a bible subject is met by a blank stare. I find it unbelieveable that this country can have gone from everyone knowing basic bible teachings/personalities to almost total ignorance during my lifetime. Its no wonder morals and standards and respect have virtually vanished.
Gosh! I sound just like my grandmother! ;)

I liked your post there F, but seeing that you are an athiest, must wonder... ?? You believe Jesus was a great man? Does not match up with being an athiest. Please I hope you weren't posting a spiteful sarcastic jab at Yorick. I'm figuring I'm misunderstanding you most likely, so just maybe rephrase what you meant so I can understand more clearly?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
people who try their utmost to follow his example and teachings are among the best people on the face of the earth. Sadly, not all who claim christianity are practicers of Jesus teachings, which is one reason people mock believers. Another reason is that they are actually lacking in real knowledge of what Jesus taught.<hr></blockquote>

In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
I like watching/listening to quiz programmes and I am horrified by how often a simple question about a bible subject is met by a blank stare. I find it unbelieveable that this country can have gone from everyone knowing basic bible teachings/personalities to almost total ignorance during my lifetime. Its no wonder morals and standards and respect have virtually vanished.
Gosh! I sound just like my grandmother! ;) <hr></blockquote>

Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different. ;) Most bible students I know, know a great deal...

....about logos AND rhema ;) The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony.

It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:
You know, I don't get this double standards stuff at all.

I've been reprimanded in the past. If some of the guys are friends with me is that a crime? I actually listen more to a subtler rebuke from a friend.

Rebukes are all relative.

The most stinging word I ever got was from Absynthe. :( Bummer that.

Could I perhaps ask in as gentle a tone as possible, that people get off my case?????

Do we have so few hours in the day that we have to scan every moderators post to ascertain whether enough moderatorship has been applied to someone we disagree with? There is such a thing as emails!! Not every communication is public.

I thought this forum was a place of enjoyment and communication, not poison laced arguments. If I wanted constant criticisms I'd get a wife. ;) (Aussie wives are the most argumentative in the world according to a Singaporean paper I read yesterday... :D :D :D )

Anyhow, I've been posting in the I.W. BG forums of late - not here in ASB.

Getting back to why I came here in the first place. [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends :D

thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick

Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KHaN:
Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ.<hr></blockquote>

Thanks, mate, it's good to be thanked once in a while. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 250:


Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends :D

thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick<hr></blockquote>


Sorry you're not feeling well, 250. Suggest you get yourself a sickbag, - very handy when one is feeling nauseous. I'd lend you mine - unfortunately, it's full to overflowing.......

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ladyzekke:
I liked your post there F, but seeing that you are an athiest, must wonder... ?? You believe Jesus was a great man? Does not match up with being an athiest. Please I hope you weren't posting a spiteful sarcastic jab at Yorick. I'm figuring I'm misunderstanding you most likely, so just maybe rephrase what you meant so I can understand more clearly?<hr></blockquote>

Ladyzekke - I meant every word of my post. Yes, I AM atheist, but that does not mean I have to denigrate Jesus! All the evidence indicates that he was a real person and the gospels show him to have been a man of great integrity, passion, and compassion. I admire and like him and try to follow his way of life and teachings to the best of my limited ability. I'm not specially good at it!

But, imo, he was a man. Imo, the bible and Jesus himself, indicate that he was NOT and never will be, GOD. I trust the bible as a reliable RELGIOUS and SOCIAL history of the Jews and early followers of Jesus. I believe that if you accept Jesus as the fulfillment of bible prophecy you have to reject any belief in evolution of the human race and ACCEPT as truth the opening chapters of the bible (Adam & Eve). I am not prepared to do that.

Genuine believers, of whatever faith, who earnestly strive to live by the high standards of their faith are, to my mind, admirable. It takes courage and high morals to be a footstep follower of Jesus, and those who do their utmost to follow his standards are worth a great deal to the human race.

As for making a spiteful or sarcastic jab at Yorick - no. Why should I? I say what I believe, always (well - mostly. I'm far from perfect, lol! I have been known to tell what are called 'white lies', and I am sometimes 'economical' in the amount of a truth I tell).

I will definitely laugh at people who believe any sort of thing without bothering to check on whether it is true (not just religion, anything); and people who have the facts in front of their eyes and don't choose to see it annoy me into jumping rage - but I appreciate that from your side it looks like I am doing the same!. Which is why Yorick and I got so infuriated with each other at times in our religious discussions!

But we did not fall out over religion and I have neither the inclination nor a reason to make fun of him.

Clarified? [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:


Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different. ;) Most bible students I know, know a great deal...

....about logos AND rhema ;) The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony.

It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story.

<hr></blockquote>

Darn! Blasted thing only picked up part of what you wrote.... I think. I'll check in a minute.....

Anyway.... yes, of course it is the country, to a certain extent. More specifically, the education system and the fact that people have stayed away from church in droves since WW2. It wouldn't matter so much if we had still taught our children to have the standards religion preached...... honesty, integrity, sexual morality, respect for fellow humans.... etc.
But also, partly the religion IS to blame.... not the 'the faith' but the churches/priests/pastors/popes/archbishops etc, because it was becoming increasingly clear to people that they themselves did not live according to what they taught. I was brought up as a RC and my ignorance of the bible was stunning, though my knowledge of church 'fairy tales' was vast! I also observed the hypocrisy of nuns and priests at first hand. I was not alone in that. After WW2, people were less inclined to overlook such things, and more inclined to use their own judgement. No bad thing either! But they chucked out the baby with the bathwater, imo.

Here is the other bit of your post[b]:
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:

In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect.

<hr></blockquote>

I thought that was what I said! About the mockers having no knowledge, I mean.
No, no-one is perfect. The christian is just supposed to try harder! When Jesus rebuked his disciples it was clear he expected them to alter the behaviour he rebuked them for. Yes, he forgave may falls on their part, but anyone who has read the whole of the NT, as I know you have, will see that eventually they DID learn to behave in a way acceptable to Jesus.
I always remember what he said to the woman taken in adultery as well.... 'Go your way and sin no more.' A person cannot claim to be christian if they continually commit 'sin' in the expectation that they will be forgiven. For example, in Revelation Jesus shows that liars and adulterers and fornicators will end up in 'the lake of fire'. Yet many who claim to be christian, including clergymen, continually practice those things. It makes me wonder if they truly believe the bible teaching on these things?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Memnoch:
Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can.
I'll tell Moni hi but I don't know if she will hear me we are both so completely addicted to Wiz8 [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] that I'm looking into getting his/hers IV bags...eating dinner takes to long...important minutes that could be spent on gametime!

F, I think you have to accept that both of you fell out over religion - Yorick did, at least. No fault of either of you - it's a very divisive topic to explore in depth, even if done in person. That's why I never talk about religion or politics in depth - because I don't know how the other person is reacting to what I'm saying. :(

I think it would be best if both of you dropped the religion debate. You must both be sick of repeating yourselves by now. Surely you know each others' point of view to the most minute detail and know that no amount of futile debate will cause each of you to change your minds. All you will both do is get on the carousel once again.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KHaN:


Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can.
<hr></blockquote>

But you've managed to do it, and for that I respect you. And I'm not just saying that - I mean that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Memnoch:
F, I think you have to accept that both of you fell out over religion - Yorick did, at least. No fault of either of you - it's a very divisive topic to explore in depth, even if done in person. That's why I never talk about religion or politics in depth - because I don't know how the other person is reacting to what I'm saying. :(

I think it would be best if both of you dropped the religion debate. You must both be sick of repeating yourselves by now. Surely you know each others' point of view to the most minute detail and know that no amount of futile debate will cause each of you to change your minds. All you will both do is get on the carousel once again.<hr></blockquote>

Mem, my post was in reply to a question of Ladyzekke's. I was not trying to raise the issue again, merely replying to her question.
As for falling out with Yorick over religion... no, that was not so, at least not on my part. It was an entire other issue, which doesn't need airing here! [img]smile.gif[/img]

In my last post to Yorick in this thread I was only responding to a comment of his, and there was no animosity or any attempt to lock horns - any more than there was on Yoricks part.
I'm PMing you.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


Mem, my post was in reply to a question of Ladyzekke's. I was not trying to raise the issue again, merely replying to her question.
As for falling out with Yorick over religion... no, that was not so, at least not on my part. It was an entire other issue, which doesn't need airing here! [img]smile.gif[/img]

In my last post to Yorick in this thread I was only responding to a comment of his, and there was no animosity or any attempt to lock horns - any more than there was on Yoricks part.
I'm PMing you.<hr></blockquote>

I've replied. [img]smile.gif[/img] You've misunderstood my point. I don't care who was responsible for the falling out. That's all ancient history now. I am trying to avoid Yorick posting on this thread to reply to you, as he inevitably will - and you replying to him - and so on and so on. Neither of you can seem to forego the last word to each other, is all I'm saying. Don't take that as an insult as it isn't meant to be. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Fljotsdale, you have to remember you were arguing points about things you do not believe. For you a mere exploration in literary analysis, rather than things you experience day to day.

As such the beliefs and experiences that sustain and enrich your life were not continually called into question.

As much as I asked, you never in fact posted a "grand unified theory", merely contenting yourself with attempting to pull mine (and others) down.

Considering we can only ever prove we exist as a concious entity it's always going to be easier to poke holes in someones "truth".

This "truth" of mine is the source of so much healing and reason for living. Continually having to defend that - verbally or in writing - can end up quite annoying to say the least. Faith has it's own ebbs and flows. Like love in a relationship.

How annoying would it be for someone to be continually telling you your spouse was a rat fink for example? The relationship is complex enough without the third party grinding away. ;)

The majority of humans who believe the bible to be the inspired word of God, do have an experience of Jesus Christ - Y'shua - as being God himself. Confirmed not only in the written word but in day to day situations.

As you do not have that second frame of reference from which to draw on and analyse, you will never see eye to eye with a believer such as myself.

Hence the futility of further circular discourse.

See what I mean, F? I wasn't having a go at you, I was trying to stop you guys from repeating yourselves all over again. You can still do it, you're not flaming each other after all - but I thought you BOTH might have been tired of this by now. It was just a suggestion!

Now let's all be nice to each other!! :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:
Fljotsdale, you have to remember you were arguing points about things you do not believe. For you a mere exploration in literary analysis, rather than things you experience day to day.

As such the beliefs and experiences that sustain and enrich your life were not continually called into question.

As much as I asked, you never in fact posted a "grand unified theory", merely contenting yourself with attempting to pull mine (and others) down.

Considering we can only ever prove we exist as a concious entity it's always going to be easier to poke holes in someones "truth".

This "truth" of mine is the source of so much healing and reason for living. Continually having to defend that - verbally or in writing - can end up quite annoying to say the least. Faith has it's own ebbs and flows. Like love in a relationship.

How annoying would it be for someone to be continually telling you your spouse was a rat fink for example? The relationship is complex enough without the third party grinding away. ;)

The majority of humans who believe the bible to be the inspired word of God, do have an experience of Jesus Christ - Y'shua - as being God himself. Confirmed not only in the written word but in day to day situations.

As you do not have that second frame of reference from which to draw on and analyse, you will never see eye to eye with a believer such as myself.

Hence the futility of further circular discourse.<hr></blockquote>

LOL! MY spouse WAS a rat fink!

Just one point - I WAS a believer, so I know where you are coming from and I understood on a personal level as one who has experienced it, every single one of your arguments. I was not blind, as you assume, in the spiritual eyes. I can see/have seen both ways.

Now lets do what Memnoch said and drop it, ok? [img]smile.gif[/img]

If you wanna add to this, that's fine, but I shall be Miss Goody-Two-Shoes and keep stum! No matter HOW much I might want to respond, lol! :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Memnoch:
See what I mean, F? I wasn't having a go at you, I was trying to stop you guys from repeating yourselves all over again. You can still do it, you're not flaming each other after all - but I thought you BOTH might have been tired of this by now. It was just a suggestion!

Now let's all be nice to each other!! :D <hr></blockquote>


[img]smile.gif[/img] Sorry dorry [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
Just one point - I WAS a believer, so I know where you are coming from and I understood on a personal level as one who has experienced it, every single one of your arguments. I was not blind, as you assume, in the spiritual eyes. I can see/have seen both ways.
<hr></blockquote>
Mem, I'll abstain in two tics o.k? This is actually new ground.

Fljotsdale, much as you like to say it, you have never held my ideology, so you can't know where I am coming from. Proclaiming knowledge of it highlights this fact. The difference between your old ones and my current ones are as different as yours and mine are now.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:
[QB]
Mem, I'll abstain in two tics o.k? This is actually new ground.

QB]<hr></blockquote>

Hehe...

How's the beer our there in Last Word Saloon?

Well, the way I see it!

*Ducks thrown tomato*

There are entirely too many thin-skins who like to complain to the teacher when another kid sticks their tongue out at them.

I FULLY understand that the mods don't want to muck through a bunch of G.S.W. (Gripe, Snivel, Whine) mail every day! They shouldn't have to. The only thing they should need to get involved with is the obscene, the illegal, and board vandals. I personally think it's too late to save this particular board. The tight regulation it requires is going to squeeze the very life from it. If people are already dogging the mods with complaints of someone being sarcastic, and sarcasm is going to be frowned upon, I hear the death rattle coming.
Killed by drowning in a deluge of complaints.

True, but unless talk of the anything related to September 11th is completely banned from IWs, these things will just happen in GD. These are important current events that both sides want to talk about. Personally, I think it's better to keep them separate.*crosses fingers*

I'd also point out that the topic isn't what is being argued, it's our treatment of one another. I've seen instances today of rudeness in GD (not related to the situation here at all) where a member asked another "why are you even posting here".