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-   -   Anyone else get sent this? Thoughts? (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77911)

Yorick 10-19-2001 05:00 AM

In a message dated 10/18/01 1:30:42 PM, yourmiconn1 writes:

<<
<< > THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!
>
> Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God
>
> Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone
>
> might be offended.
>
>
> Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags
>
> removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons
>
> removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management did
>
> not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag
>
> might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another".
>
>
> Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being displayed on
>
> city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone
>
> in the community.
>
>
> In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at
>
> Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an
>
> American" signs removed so as to not offend international
>
> students.
>
>
> I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called
>
> American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying
>
> about whether or not we are offending some individual or
>
> their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on September 11,
>
> we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of
>
> Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely
>
> settled in New York and Washington D.C. when the "politically
>
> correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that
>
> our patriotism was offending others.
>
>
> I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against
>
> anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. In
>
> fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of
>
> descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things that
>
> those who have recently come to our country, and apparently
>
> some native Americans, need to understand.
>
>
> First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try
>
> not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a
>
> multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our
>
> sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have
>
> our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our
>
> own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been
>
> developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by
>
> millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our
>
> forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker
>
> Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam,
>
>
> We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
>
> Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
>
> become part of our society - learn our language!
>
> "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some
>
> off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it
>
> is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House
>
> of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our
>
> currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and
>
> women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and
>
> this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is
>
> appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our
>
> highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate
>
> to display it on the walls of our schools.
>
>
> God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every
>
> patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His
>
> birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to
>
> Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then
>
> I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new
>
> home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud
>
> to have Him.
>
>
> We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably
>
> defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day,
>
> Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades,
>
> picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As
>
> an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national
>
> anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever
>
> and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or
>
> you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a
>
> move to another part of this planet.
>
>
> The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we
>
> are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no
>
> desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things
>
> where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not, this
>
> is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.
>
>
> Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express
>
> his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we
>
> will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are
>
> done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our
>
> pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly
>
> encourage you take advantage of one other great American
>
> freedom, the right to leave.
>
>
> Barry Loudermilk
>
> If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!


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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/yor.gif http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif

Nachtrafe 10-19-2001 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
In a message dated 10/18/01 1:30:42 PM, yourmiconn1 writes:

<<
<< > THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!
>
> Barry Loudermilk
>
> If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!



*Applauds heartily!!!* Kudos for Barry, whomever/wherever he is!
Hey Yorick, could you send me a copy of this email? nachtrafe@hotmail.com

Ummm...I guess I should ask though...what's your opinion? From the perspective of being a non-American in the US.


EDIT: Was going to quote it, but the thing is WAY too long. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
------------------
"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"
http://nachtrafe.7h.com/images/pledge.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif

[This message has been edited by Nachtrafe (edited 10-19-2001).]

Prime2U 10-19-2001 05:26 AM

Never seen a truer post. We're so worried about pleasing every single person we've forgotten who we are as a nation. I suppose the next thing we'll here is that if we want to post the american flag we must have equal space to post a terrorist banner so that we won't offend any terrorists. Ugh. It makes me sick just thinking about it. Sometimes it makes ME want to find another place on the planet, and I'm sure I'm not the only American who can trace his roots here way back that feels that way.

Prime

Neb 10-19-2001 05:30 AM

I am not an american, but I would seriously get pissed if anything like this was done in Denmark, we're a mainly christian country too and we shouldn't change that just because someone who isn't has decided to come and live with us, it's THEIR job to integrate themselves into the society of the country that they have moved to, not OUR job to change our country to fit their wants and needs.

Nachtrafe 10-19-2001 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neb:
I am not an american, but I would seriously get pissed if anything like this was done in Denmark, we're a mainly christian country too and we shouldn't change that just because someone who isn't has decided to come and live with us, it's THEIR job to integrate themselves into the society of the country that they have moved to, not OUR job to change our country to fit their wants and needs.
Go Neb!! Couldn't have said it better myself! Now, if we could just get some of the 'pundits' in THIS country to listen. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif

And Prime2U...No matter how frustrated you get, remember...there's nowhere you can go that's better than here. Sure, we have our problems, as evinced in the article above, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

------------------
"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"
http://nachtrafe.7h.com/images/pledge.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif

Prime2U 10-19-2001 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nachtrafe:
Go Neb!! Couldn't have said it better myself! Now, if we could just get some of the 'pundits' in THIS country to listen. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif


And Prime2U...No matter how frustrated you get, remember...there's nowhere you can go that's better than here. Sure, we have our problems, as evinced in the article above, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else.



hehe yeah, me too, I just tend to mumble something about the nice clean forests of Canada every now and then when PCness pisses me off in this country (not like Canada isn't even worse about it)

Prime

Garnet 10-19-2001 07:00 AM

Not display the US flag in schools, on fire trucks, libraries,etc.?!?!?!? What kind of bullshit is this!?!?!?

This is *our* country, *our* home!!!!!! Does this mean that in my house I should take down pictures which may depict a scene which might in some manner offend my visitors? I should hide away books or magazines which may in some way be contrary to their personal beliefs? I think *NOT*.

I am not Christian, but I have *absolutely* **no** problem with the "in God we trust" phrase or the religious misc. (holiday figures, pics, whatever). I was a proud member of the United States Navy and took an oath to protect this country and her people--under God. This is what makes us so 'great'--the fact that we are so many different peoples come together into a huge mixing bowl, resulting in the most sublimely wonderful blend!

There is a point beyond which these officials must stop worrying about whose ass they're going to kiss next and go about doing their jobs!

I'm going off this thread now before I implode with impotent fury!!!!!!

Garnet

(but thanks for posting it, Yorick)

Ramon de Ramon y Ramon 10-19-2001 05:13 PM

No, filth like this really is not worth that I comment it - other than that: this has nothing to do with defending anything, just with venting self-righteous anger, an invitation to hate and to nurturing resentments ... despicable !

------------------
So long !

R³ aka "The Ramonster"(thanks Sir Tainly) - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks - equally proud to be Moiraine's "permanent advocate" !

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

Ronn_Bman 10-19-2001 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
In a message dated 10/18/01 1:30:42 PM, yourmiconn1 writes:

<<
<< > THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!

>[edit]...................................... once you are
>
> done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our
>
> pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly
>
> encourage you take advantage of one other great American
>
> freedom, the right to leave.
>
>
> Barry Loudermilk
>
> If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!



It's time we stopped worrying about who we make unhappy or offend. I don't mean to go out and intentionally cause problems, but to carry on our lifes worrying about US and not if someone will be offended.




------------------
http://www.usflag.org/animate/flagwave1.gif

"The Martyr" (excerpt)

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

--Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln)

250 10-19-2001 06:02 PM

"the right of american"?
"free to leave"?

what kind attitude is this??? huh???

I am an international student, and I am damn proud for Americans, but I just hate the attitude of "If you dont like us, you can leave."

this is the most unproductive thing one can say. geez

Kaz 10-19-2001 06:09 PM

Well, American Patriotism offends me - heck, any kind of Patriotism offends me. I live with it, I realize that this is one of the side-effects of the German school system - an extreme dislike of patriotism. Or maybe it's just me. But, I mean, it's your country. You are free to display your patriotism as you want, why hide it? In another country would be a different matter. I could probably have phrased this more diplomatically, but I'm too tired, it's midnight.

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Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB
Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe
Guardian of the Temple of Aerie (specialized in GenCon and BG)
Magess of Lady Lioness' Court
Saint of the SoS
Historian of IW
Most Illustrious Arch-Magess of the Illuminati
Lux omnis est
Once Upon A Paper Writer's Forum

Prime2U 10-19-2001 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 250:
"the right of american"?
"free to leave"?


what kind attitude is this??? huh???


I am an international student, and I am damn proud for Americans, but I just hate the attitude of "If you dont like us, you can leave."


this is the most unproductive thing one can say. geez


I think the point is that we worry too much about offending other people and end up being sniveling little whiners that can't take a stand on anything. Does our showing our flag offend you 250? and if our showing our national flag, IN OUR NATION does offend you, then what that man has said is totally true, you should consider leaving, because you obviously don't like our nation (not that I think any of this of you BTW). Meanwhile we have little whining *^$#% telling us we can't say our own Pledge of Allegiance or show our own flag, they are basically telling us that we can't have any pride or love of our nation at all because it might offend someone else. I'll repeat myself, if this country offends someone, then why the hell are they here?

Prime

Neb 10-19-2001 06:55 PM

Well, it sure didn't take long for this thread to get hostile.

Prime2U 10-19-2001 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neb:
Well, it sure didn't take long for this thread to get hostile.

Whoa Ned lol, if you mean me I wasn't trying to be hostile, I noted in the post I didn't mean anything about 250, I was just fleshing out that paragraph of the article a bit so it wasn't misunderstood. i'm not pissed at anyone, I am a lil ticked off at the extremes we go to these days to be PC. If we lose our national identity over it...well that'd be pathetic. And it seems that that is the goal of a small group of people. The US is not the world, the US is the US.

Prime

Ronn_Bman 10-19-2001 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 250:
"the right of american"?
"free to leave"?

what kind attitude is this??? huh???

I am an international student, and I am damn proud for Americans, but I just hate the attitude of "If you dont like us, you can leave."

this is the most unproductive thing one can say. geez

It may be unproductive, but in these cases it's true. (If these cases are true, because I don't know).

If you are proud of, or for, America/American's this isn't aimed at you.

That saying is usually reserved for American's who are complaining about the state of things(Archie Bunker style), but if we've become so afraid that someone IN AMERICA may be offended by the AMERICAN FLAG that we take it down from ANYWHERE at ANYTIME, then that's wrong.

It's wrong no matter what the local, state, national, or global situation. Whether you are an American or a vistor, if the diplay of the American Flag offends you, you shouldn't be here.

The items listed in that email are a prime example of the reason American's think we try to make too many people happy, at our own expense, both at home and abroad.

------------------
http://www.usflag.org/animate/flagwave1.gif

"The Martyr" (excerpt)

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

--Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln)

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-19-2001).]

John D Harris 10-19-2001 07:52 PM

Yorick E-mail me a copy please you should have the address if not you can get it in my profile.

God Bless America!

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the Untied States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands
One nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all.

It amazes me that there are people WHINNING about words, yes I'll repeat that WHINNING about words, when there are 5,000+ dead humans. But these must be sensative, can't we just get along crowd are WHINNING about words. People have had their lives ended they can no longer enjoy the blessings or hardships of this life, THEY ARE DEAD. But we have to listen to people WHINE about words, and worry about offending someone.
Bite me! all of your proceived offensives in the world combined and mulitplied by Pi are not equal to one human life!

------------------
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

Ronn_Bman 10-19-2001 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:
Bite me!
I think that says it all, baby...lol



------------------
http://www.usflag.org/animate/flagwave1.gif

"The Martyr" (excerpt)

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

--Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln)

Ziroc 10-19-2001 08:55 PM

I have also seen this. It's sick. We live in AMERICA, the land of the FREE. Free speech, freedom of EXPRESSION. I would fight them to the end to fly my flag. If you are offended, get the hell out of the country! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif Or deal with it.

Another thing I have been hearing--SOME anal people are offended by the word "GOD" in the National Anthem. OK.... Well, then you better get rid of all your money too.. that should offend ya as well.. Morons... people are saying 'well, just remove the word God'. Well, that's nice and all, but then it isn't the national Anthem damnit. (Sigh)..

Politically Correctness is a pain in the ass sometimes.. goes TOO far sometimes.

------------------
Ziroc™
Ironworks Webmaster
www.tgeweb.com/ironworks

Djinn Raffo 10-19-2001 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:
all of your proceived offensives in the world combined and mulitplied by Pi are not equal to one human life!

Neither is revenge.


[This message has been edited by Djinn Raffo (edited 10-19-2001).]

Archie_Bunker 10-19-2001 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands
One nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all.

dis is de only thing I've seen, so far, that makes good American sense!

------------------

"Those were the days."

http://www.allinthefamilysit.com/images/center_2new.gif

[This message has been edited by Archie_Bunker (edited 10-19-2001).]

J.J. 10-19-2001 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:
Yorick E-mail me a copy please you should have the address if not you can get it in my profile.

God Bless America!

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the Untied States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands
One nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all.

It amazes me that there are people WHINNING about words, yes I'll repeat that WHINNING about words, when there are 5,000+ dead humans. But these must be sensative, can't we just get along crowd are WHINNING about words. People have had their lives ended they can no longer enjoy the blessings or hardships of this life, THEY ARE DEAD. But we have to listen to people WHINE about words, and worry about offending someone.
Bite me! all of your proceived offensives in the world combined and mulitplied by Pi are not equal to one human life!


John D. fer prez fer life! Even if I were not a veteran, even if every single one of my uncles had not been been vets of things like the Korean War, Vietnam, the Berlin Airlift, thank GOD I went thru school when you got a ruler across the knuckles if you did not stand up straight and say the Pledge of Allegiance loud enough to be heard. Sound mean to some? then you still don't get it. But don't worry, the U.S. of A. will still be here to protect the world's freedom from those who wish to claim it as their own. So enjoy your right to protest, WHINE and complain. Just don't do it within arm's reach of me, or I WILL give you something to whine and complain about.noj/k http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gifissed:
now, please, gee whiz, let's all KISS, did i OFFend anyone's tender sensibilities.http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/smiles/ak.gif
t


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Amanda's Dad-Best Damn Job, Period.
http://angelfire.com/rpg2/mirac/images/mummy.gif
Official Pin-Up Girl Massager of the O.L.D. C.O.O.T.S. Clan
To Err is Human To Forgive Divine, However Neither is U.S. Marine Corps Policy.

[This message has been edited by J.J. (edited 10-19-2001).]

Ladyzekke 10-19-2001 09:19 PM

Well here in the D.C. metropolitan area, nobody is discouraging flags I can say that for sure LOL. At least 1/2 of the cars in traffic have either a flag bumper sticker, or a flag sticker in one of the windows, or one flying (like mine) on the radio antennas on cars, some are attached to windows, and many have large flags flying in front of their front door of their houses. Large flags are hanging from bridge overpasses above many highways, are in store windows, being sold in many stores, etc. This was never like this before Sept. 11th. To me, this means that we Americans are being calm, and strong. The terrorists will NOT take away what America stands for, we will never turn into the barbaric mentality that the Taliban has. If they think their attacks on us are going to cause internal chaos, as seems to happen a lot in their country, they are sadly mistaken. We will not start throwing rocks at eachtother, we will not stampede eachother in a panic, we will not put ourselves first in an emergency over the weaker people, we will stand together and care for eachother, as family. I really believe this, especially now after seeing how people have come together since Sept. 11th all over the U.S. We only grow stronger when threatened, this I guess, the Taliban will learn in time. God bless America.

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J.J. 10-19-2001 09:22 PM

BTW, Yorick, please email me that letter as well, I can't believe my cadre of stainless steel cynics has not gotten it to me yet, I would like to send it on. yuwkne@hotmail.com thenk yew, veddy muchas

------------------
Amanda's Dad-Best Damn Job, Period.
http://angelfire.com/rpg2/mirac/images/mummy.gif
Official Pin-Up Girl Massager of the O.L.D. C.O.O.T.S. Clan
To Err is Human To Forgive Divine, However Neither is U.S. Marine Corps Policy.

Sir Taliesin 10-19-2001 09:30 PM

<font color=orange>I think I've gotten this email at least five timesthis week!!! It's real popular on the internet!!! BTW Ziroc, GREAT POST!</font>

------------------
Sir Taliesin

http://www.dabros.com/images/sigs/giant.gif

If they take my gun can I still use my Axe?

Prime2U 10-19-2001 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziroc:
I have also seen this. It's sick. We live in AMERICA, the land of the FREE. Free speech, freedom of EXPRESSION. I would fight them to the end to fly my flag. If you are offended, get the hell out of the country! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif Or deal with it.


Another thing I have been hearing--SOME anal people are offended by the word "GOD" in the National Anthem. OK.... Well, then you better get rid of all your money too.. that should offend ya as well.. Morons... people are saying 'well, just remove the word God'. Well, that's nice and all, but then it isn't the national Anthem damnit. (Sigh)..


Politically Correctness is a pain in the ass sometimes.. goes TOO far sometimes.



Aye Ziroc, you and I are seeing eye to eye on this issue. I expect to see France's flag when I go to France, and any other nation's too the same way, and it won't offend me, I'm a visitor. So what *&%@wit PC morons think OUR flag will offend visitors here? And if it does, SO WHAT? Why on earth would they want to visit us if it did? Argh, i just have pet peeves about some things.

Prime

Neb 10-19-2001 10:40 PM

As stated earlier, I fully support the americans who want to keep their flag, even though I am not from America.

250 10-19-2001 10:50 PM

Prime2u...

geesh, there are always people who deserve to be on my list... sigh...

Fljotsdale 10-20-2001 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
In a message dated 10/18/01 1:30:42 PM, yourmiconn1 writes:


> THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God
Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone might be offended.
Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management did not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag
might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another". Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being displayed on city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone in the community.
In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at
Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an American" signs removed so as to not offend international students.

Oh, come ON! I personally hate all the loud, belligerant flag-waving patriotism and God bless America stuff - but that is ridiculous!
Good grief! If you can't express yourselves the way you want to in your own country for fear of offending people who have CHOSEN to go there to live, where the devil CAN you express yourselves!?


------------------
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/hclark50/flojs_14783.gif

Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

G'kar 10-20-2001 12:22 AM

Dont get mad, butI think its an un-American aditude to tell someone to leave if they wish to promote a particular constitutuional point of view like having a seperation of church and state. With regard to censoring patriotic songs and themes, It is only one way to interpret this constitutional passage IMO.
I will elaborate.
Seperation of church and state. The issue of the ten commandments in the court room is cut and dry, its a direct quote from the bible, works one religion in general has claimed. On the otherhand the word God has an equevilant in most every religion, and atheists/agnostics wouldnt exist as a philosophy without something to deny or disbelieve. So as a word it is fairly generic and nonoffensive in relation to patriotic songs and church. Because in and of itself the mention of god isnt placed in a church or in a religious sense. So the interpretation maybe wrong, but its from our own constitution. I defend and respect the rights of Americans to promote a political cause even if its divisive and out of the context of a fair spirit.


I cant be offend by the site of the American flag, and I support the freedom for people to fly them as they please.

Prime2U 10-20-2001 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 250:
Prime2u...


geesh, there are always people who deserve to be on my list... sigh...


Your 'List'?
Honestly, and I stated it clearly in my post, I meant nothing against you. I was mearly trying to clarify the post for your benefit so I used you as an example. I am assuming since you said you were proud of america that you were obviosly not offended by us showing our flag. If for stating that I must be on your 'List' then so be it.

Prime

250 10-20-2001 03:55 AM

lookie, here, ok, I am saying "if you dont like us, then leave." is a very unproductive attitude. and you did nothing but repeating it in your post. what are you trying to prove? by repeatedly saying it over and over so that I will see the good of it? I dont think so

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 10-20-2001).]

250 10-20-2001 03:58 AM

ok, my bad. I see where you come from.

I am speaking that attitude in general, not just this particular thing. sometimes, when one is wrong ( yeah, some ), they like to use that attitude as last defense to their so self-righteously held opinion

sorry about 'my list' thing http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Prime2U 10-20-2001 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 250:
ok, my bad. I see where you come from.

I am speaking that attitude in general, not just this particular thing. sometimes, when one is wrong ( yeah, some ), they like to use that attitude as last defense to their so self-righteously held opinion

sorry about 'my list' thing http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

No worries. I figured that I was a little harsh on that post, which is why I put the parenthesis in so you'd know i didn't mean you. All I meant to say was that if I was in your country I would expect to see flags, etc. showing pride in your country, and if I was offended by that then I would be truly foolish to visit. I always respect the right of any other country to feel however they want about themselves, it's not my place to say they are wrong. And I know you realize it's not your place either from what you have said. The people who irritate me so are the ones that are OF this country but care so little about it that they think our flag might offend visitors and so lobby to have it removed. Honestly, if this was your country wouldn't this tick you off as well?


anyways 250 I wasn't in any way trying to be harsh with you, was only trying to clarify the article for you, so you have my sincere apology if you read it otherwise.


Prime

[This message has been edited by Prime2U (edited 10-20-2001).]

Yorick 10-20-2001 05:57 AM

Guys, I deleted the mail (it was in my junk mail folder....)

Just cut and paste from the thread starting post. That's all I did anyway, that's why those annoying line gaps are there.



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Nachtrafe 10-20-2001 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prime2U:

hehe yeah, me too, I just tend to mumble something about the nice clean forests of Canada every now and then when PCness pisses me off in this country (not like Canada isn't even worse about it)

Prime

LOL...Yeah...I've thought the very same thing. But,. since I cant stand the thought of living anywhere else, I think maybe Alaska. Fortunately, I happen to live in a state that is very conservative. So, even though PCism is a factor, its not as big of one.

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Ziroc 10-21-2001 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G'kar:
Dont get mad, butI think its an un-American aditude to tell someone to leave if they wish to promote a particular constitutuional point of view like having a seperation of church and state. With regard to censoring patriotic songs and themes, It is only one way to interpret this constitutional passage IMO.
I will elaborate.
Seperation of church and state. The issue of the ten commandments in the court room is cut and dry, its a direct quote from the bible, works one religion in general has claimed. On the otherhand the word God has an equevilant in most every religion, and atheists/agnostics wouldnt exist as a philosophy without something to deny or disbelieve. So as a word it is fairly generic and nonoffensive in relation to patriotic songs and church. Because in and of itself the mention of god isnt placed in a church or in a religious sense. So the interpretation maybe wrong, but its from our own constitution. I defend and respect the rights of Americans to promote a political cause even if its divisive and out of the context of a fair spirit.


I cant be offend by the site of the American flag, and I support the freedom for people to fly them as they please.


Well, explain the "In God we trust" on all the U.S. Currency? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

When I said if you don't like it leave, I mean.. well, for instance: If you turn on the TV and see something you hate, do you A.) Keep watching it and get offended or B.) Get over it and keep on moving..

In other words, if you don't like the National Anthem, DON'T SING IT! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif or sing it 'your' way.. thats all I am saying. but passing LAWS changing it is, and never will happen.

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G'kar 10-21-2001 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziroc:

Well, explain the "In God we trust" on all the U.S. Currency? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

When I said if you don't like it leave, I mean.. well, for instance: If you turn on the TV and see something you hate, do you A.) Keep watching it and get offended or B.) Get over it and keep on moving..

In other words, if you don't like the National Anthem, DON'T SING IT! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif or sing it 'your' way.. thats all I am saying. but passing LAWS changing it is, and never will happen.


I totally dig where your coming from! It is easier to let it go or let it pass by.

Unfortunatly some people can get pretty extreme about the "love it or leave it" philosophy. It sucks when one American attacks or disrespects another because they have an alternate point of view. The divisive tone of the aforementioned article reminded me of such extremism, although from what I can tell, that wasnt the spirit it was written it.

I cant explain "In god we trust" on currency, except to postulate the idea that god is more than just a religious or church concept and is therefore exempt from constitutional seperation, but its sticky ground really.

The me the Flag Pledge wouldnt be the same if "one nation,under God" was altered or ommited. Personally, I couldn't take it as being church or religion, its just American.


Ryanamur 10-21-2001 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
In a message dated 10/18/01 1:30:42 PM, yourmiconn1 writes:

<< ><< > THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!
>
> If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!



No Yorick I haven't seen it. But I do support it. It doesn't only adresses Americans concerns but also those supported by many in my country as well.



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