Here's the link.

[ 12-09-2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]

More with this idiotic violent video game crap! WHO EVEN PLAYED MANHUNT!?! The day I heard about the kid who killed someone and it got linked with Manhunt, I ask people at my school if they played. A majority of them didn't, and those that did said "Dude, that game sucked balls. I wish I'd used my money on something else." All this hype over a crappy video game.. and then they get fined for selling these to children? What about the parents? If the parents give consent on it will they get fined? It's stupid. I play violent video games all the time, still haven't been urged to kill someone with a shotgun/freeze gun because I did it in Painkiller. Idiots.

[ 12-08-2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

I agree with your view, but I wouldn't have such an arrogant attitude towards it. Yes it is unfair to lay the blame of deaths on video games. However, that argument 'I have played video games. I haven't killed anyone,' isn't a particularly good argument as, clearly, some people will be more succeptible to taking in what they see on a computer screen then others. However, this doesn't excuse them from murdering. If someone murders because of a computer game, you have to believe that it was always going to happen.

<font color=plum>It's also been proven conclusively that children DO "copy" behavior they see on games and TV. That is how young children learn - by copying others.

I saw an experiment done with a kindergarten class a few years ago. One day, the class watched a Barney video. After the video, the kids were given "free time" to play. They "played Barney". They worked together, helped each other, shared toys, etc. The next day they watched a Power Ranger video. During "free time" the kids were "karate fighting" each other and even continued that activity the next morning at the start of class.

I agree that you can't lay the blame entirely on video games and TV shows, but today's generation has grown up on video games with lots of excessive violence in them. And they don't have to go to the arcade and pay a quarter per game like I did. Nope. They have these games on their Playstations and X-box right there at home and can play them as often as they like.

When you are subjected to that much violence on a regular basis, you do become "desensitized" to it. Just look at the newer games if you don't believe me. They have more realistic violence, bigger guns and explosions, etc.

Again, this isn't the sole factor contributing to violence in teens and young adults today, but it can't be denied that it is a contributing factor.</font>

What's the difference between todays games and watching TV ? Watch the news for a few minutes and you'll see more violence than in all games together. Games are merely a reflection of our modern day society.

But how many kids, johnny, ever watch the news?

That there's violence everywhere I don't deny. I only wonder if it can (or should) be limited in those vectors most likely to affect children ...

You'll be surprised how many kids watch the news. But it's not just the news, just turn on your TV and there's misery on every channel, not to mention all the violence brought in movies, or even cartoons.

This subject is a fascinating one as it has roots in both objective fact and popular hysteria.
There is ample proof that we are affected by what we see and hear via music, television and games. Advertising agencies make billions of dollars because of this, and if there wasn't a hard correlation between the advertising and the revenue generated from it, this wouldn't be such a lucrative business. Burn patients at Harborview Burn center here in Seattle use virtual reality for pain management during burn treatments, and it's showing a significant reduction in the amount of pain they experience during the ablation procedures.
There is no question that we are affected by our experiences, but there is a lot of question as to the magnitude of the effects, and what the correlation is...
A significant amount of noise is generated by people who have a high level of concern coupled with a low level of understanding, and these are most often the people that get the press. There are disturbed people who play video games and commit crimes. These same people watch television, listen to the radio, read the paper, and have myriad other interactions that have an effect on their state of mind.
It would be refreshing to see an in-depth study of the cause and effect associated with this particular media, especially on those who are previously unbalanced.

This reminds me of the old arguement agianst D&D, about how playing the game would make people go into the dark side. We had one player, in our old college D&D group (back in the stoneage) that would get personally upset if something happened to his character. He was the same type of person that would get upset if anything happened playing Gin, or any other game. It's not the game it's the person. Lots of people look to outside forces to give them happiness/contentment/meaning in their lives, when each of us has that power within ourselves. It's Our lives, we are in control.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20041201l.jpg

There are more important things in the world that people need to fix, rather than the silly little matter of video game violence.

It's been the scapegoat for far too long as it is, how about parents actually do their "jobs" and raise their kids right, hmm?

Bah! Stupid other people have mixed their Causes and Reasons again. Violence in video games doen't create violence in the real world. It's the other way round.

Sigmar, If parents were to do that, it would mean take'n responsability, and Delicate Psycies would be warped across this planet. ;)

<font color=plum>Well, <font color=white>Mr. Harris</font>, I'm afraid I actually have to disagree with you for once.

I agree that this does remind me of the arguments against AD*D and some of the bands of our time (KISS, AC/DC, Ozzy Osbourne, Alice Cooper, etc), but I believe the argument DOES have a bit more validity these days for a couple of reasons.

First of all, the violence in the games you and I grew up playing was much LESS realistic than what they have in games today. We didn't have 3D technology available back then (the first major exception was the game <font color=red>Dragon's Lair</font>). Also, the availability of these more graphic and violent games is much higher for today's kids than it was for us. We didn't have X-Box and Playstation where we could play these games over and over in the privacy of our own bedroom. We had to go to the arcade, probably wait in line to play our favorite games, and we had to keep feeding quarters into the machine when we lost all of our lives. ALL of these factors meant that you and I played a LOT LESS video games than our kids do - and the games we did play didn't have anywhere NEAR the realistic violence contained in games today.

When kids play these games so much, it is only natural for at least some of that violence (or violent reactions) to carry over into real life situations. This doesn't mean they are going to go out and kill somebody, but it does mean they have a tendency to react more violently more often to the situations they face - especially when these situations are coupled with the normal teen angst each child has to face to begin with.

As for the music, NONE of the artists I mentioned sang ANY songs about going out and killing the police or anybody else that just pi$$ed you off. The only one that came close was Ozzy with his much maligned "Suicide Solution". And while it was NOT written to endorse or promote suicide (it was actually written after the death of Bon Scott to "cry out" against the fact so many musicians seem to lose their lives by self-induced means), Ozzy should have realized that at least some teens would take it that way. After all, when teen is going through the usual self-esteem issues they all face and they listen to a song that says "suicide is the only solution", the artist should be aware of the effect that is going to have on those kids.

Now I'm not saying that Ozzy is responsible for teen suicides any more than I am saying video games turn kids into rabid killers. What I am saying is that the critics of these arguments can NOT deny that these songs and games do serve as contributing factor to the behavior of those that listen to them or play them.

I remember watching the movie "XXX" (starring Vin Diesel) a couple of years ago. Towards the end of the movie, he and the "good guys" have the "bad guy" cornered. While the authorities are trying to either wound the guy or capture him, Vin Diesel gets tired of thier ■■■■■-footing around and says "Think 'Playstation' - blow S*** up!"

That's fine and dandy for a virtual game where real property and lives aren't being destroyed, but suppose the police DID adopt this "Playstation" mentality and just decided to "blow s*** up" when a suspect barricaded himself inside a house? Granted this is an extreme example, but it goes back to the whole "mentality" these kind of games impart. If somebody screws with you, beat'em up, shoot'em up or blow'em up. When kids get that message over and over, there is no way you can say it has absolutely no effect on them or their behavior.</font>

Only the morons will be affected by it, the ones who were gonna crack sooner or later regardless. Same goes for the ones who kill themselves over some lyrics written by some retarded rockstar. They were probably not going to end well in the first place. People will commit suicide over just about anything, a relationship that went bad, money, over the way they look, over a lost footballmatch, and the list goes on and on and on. It's not Ozzies fault some lunatics take their own lifes after listening to a song he wrote. If Ozzy would announce his retirement because he feels bad that something like that happened, others will take their own lifes because of that. The morons in this world are countless.

Video games are a contributing factor for child violence. Never thought you would hear me say that did you?

However, there are a lot of other contributing factors. Violent films, violent news, violent articles, violent websites etc. Then there's the thing which aren't violent, but contribute to the cracking of a young person. Increased workloads, peer pressure, drugs etc.
Why don't we work on banning any of these things? Why does our hobby have to be attacked?

VIDEO GAMES DON"T F^#%# MAKE ME VIOLENT! YOU ARE A %$##HEAD! YOU BLAME VIDEO GAMES FOR YOUR BAD PARENTING YOUR FU*&% TARD!

j/k [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

But seriously I agree with johnny. Those who have lack of self control go mimic what they see in games, media etc. People who lack self control are those we should be worried about.