From the Sydney Morning Herald.

This is an interesting one, as there have been numerous instances in Australia (and I'm sure in the rest of the world as well) of serious accidents and road fatalities recorded due to police pursuits of offenders who either failed to stop for traffic infringements or because they were driving stolen vehicles, etc. and often the police get put under the pump for trying to do their job if innocent deaths happen to occur during the course of these pursuits.

On one hand you let the offenders get away if the chase gets too hot, thus meaning that the offender (who may be a murderer but could just as easily be a common car thief or a kid who didn't have his license with him) gets away, which would minimise the risk of a serious collision and/or death for bystanders and offender alike...

...or on the other hand do you pursue the offender at all costs with the sole objective of nailing his ass because the role of police is to enforce the law and it's not their fault if deaths occur in the course of them just doing their job? After all, it's the offender's fault for fleeing in the first place.

Comments?

As you say Mem, it's a hard one.

My thoughts are that you can't just let them get away. But there are other ways of dealing with it than driving around like maniacs chasing them. Been a while now, as you know, since I lived in Sydney. But as I remember a lot of the coppers in the Highway Patrol especially, used to be young "gung ho" types. Amazing what a gun on the hip can do to a young blokes demeanor. The police used to be fairly well endowed with choppers, and I expect this is still the case. I can't see the problem with simply taking the cars details and radioing them through to control with a general direction of the vehicle when last seen, then leaving it to the choppers to see where it stops and then send a car aroud to the address. Also just about every major intersection has cameras on them, so the rego could be recorded. In the case of stolen cars, at least the chances of it being recovered in one piece would be greater.

On another topic though Mem, any word about Roamers site?

And what if the criminal on the run has a kidnapped child hidden in the trunk of the car? Or he just killed three people and has their heads in a bag? Not all runners are just scared of getting a speeding ticket.

Well i'd allow chases for a litle while. Not all chases get totally crazy, but when things do i would rely on the police helicopters like skippy mentioned. But they will need more of them.

Secondly I would make it an automatic 6 months in jail for attempting to flee the police. Hardend criminals might not think twice about that but a lot of people would.

How high percentage, roughly, of the offenders are drunk or stoned during the car chase? They are bad drivers regardless of wether you chase them or not, and in those cases perhaps it better to try to stop them instead of just following them with a chopper.

There are limits on "hot pursuits" in most American big cities. Basically, unless the fleeing person poses an immediate danger, hot pursuit should be disengaged.

I think as the "snooper" technology in areas increases (cameras, helicopters, satellite photos, etc.) police chases will not be as needed to catch fleeing criminals.

Hey Memnoch! I just read in the newspaper, they are trying to change the law for those speeding cars because they are only charged (as of now) negligent driving (which is light) and not running away from the police or something. Hopefully the situation in Sydney West will improve. Just been here a couple of months and I heard so many bad things over there already :(

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00"> Yah, it is a little tricky and a judgment call needs to be made. Much of it depends on what the situation is. I happen to agree with timber technology is improving and high speed chases may be a thing of the past. Hell you can't even speed anymore without getting a fine thanks to those cameras that take pictures of license plates as you pass by.</font>

[ 01-19-2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

You know what I think whenever I see one of these chases?
"WHAT THE HELL HAS HE BEEN TAKING?"
Because if there's one thing I've learned from watching police chases it's "They never get away"
It's the most stupid thing you can do, you'll get busted anyway and are in for numerous additional charges (evading the police, numerous traffic transgressions, maybe some property damage or even involuntary manslaughter or even the infamous felony murder).
So I assume if someone DOES engage in a car chase with the police he either
+ is stupid OR
+ got nothing to lose, because he's already in to deep
Either way these people are dangerous and I sure as hell want them to be nailed ASAP before they pose any other threat to the community.
LEt me tell you a story that happened last year in my town:

A man robs a store for discount international phone calls, and due to his bad luck gets away with a mind-buzzling 2$. Another customer chases him (and due to his training as a professional boxer) finally gets him. The culprit takes out a knife and repeatedly stabs the young man in the chest. However he is able to hold him until the police arrives to arrest him and (thank god) suffers no permanent damage.


Now many people (me too at first) would go about and say: "Why did he let himself stab in the chest for 2$ who weren't even his." But the point is that this criminal had to be busted right away, because he was willing to KILL instead of turning himself in and facing charges which would probably lead to no more than a small fine or 1 day in jail.
The same with people in police chases. They are worth chasing because they are engaging in the chase which makes them dangerous (I'm kinda talking in circles here, but it makes sense to me).
-
On the other hand, I'm completely for lightening up the police chases as long as it is ensured, that the culprit gets caught. Helicopters, lowjack-guns,... should assist in that. Just remember, that in the wrong hands a car can be a weapon and you sure wouldn't want an armed criminal on the loose.

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00"> There was a police chase here once were the guy crased through someones basement apartment and his car landed on a bed. [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img] Guess he wanted some sleep.


Anyway noone was hurt except for the criminal.
</font>

[ 01-20-2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

<font color=deepskyblue>You're right about the car being a weapon, <font color=white>Faceman</font>, and that is the central issue to this whole topic. Because the one way to absolutely garauntee that the car will become a "weapon" (whether intentionally or not) is for the police to chase it.

The driver will then speed up to get away. They will swerve in and out of traffic, slide through corners, and charge through intersections. I've even seen video of cars driving up on the sidewalk and almost hitting pedestrians during a police chase.

The bottom line is that the driver of the vehicle will start speeding and attempting manuevers that he/she is not trained to do (unlike the police). They are gonna try some crazy stunt driving at high speeds and the only thing you can count on then is that SOMEBODY is gonna get hurt when the driver inevitably loses control of the vehicle.

I love to watch the show <font color=white>Scariest Police Chases</font>. It amazes me what some people will do when they get behind the wheel of a car. I saw one video where a drunk driver lost control on the highway and swerved into a tractor trailer with enough force to cause it to jackknife. This led to a multi-car collision with numerous injuries of other drivers and passengers (none serious, thankfully). And the driver wasn't going that fast. His estimated speed was less than 70mph at the time.

Of course, the comment about the police being "gung ho" is true also. MANY cities in the U.S. are beginning to review their high-speed pursuit policies also, because of incidents similar to the one posted by <font color=red>Memnoch</font>. On the nightly news a few months ago, officials in Atlanta, GA said they were reviewing their policy after a chase that resembled the infamous O.J. Simpson chase with the white Bronco. Video of the chase showed a single car driving down the highway, but not at an outrageous speed (again, the driver was going around 70-75mph). It was late at night (or early in the morning), so there weren't any other cars on the highway....EXCEPT for the police cars in pursuit. In the video, there were about 20-25 police cars pursuing this one vehicle. Everybody from the State Highway Patrol (who had primary jurisdiction) down to local sheriff and police departments (who did NOT have jurisdiction and couldn't have even made the arrest if they had pulled him over). There were so many cars, that about 3/4 of them couldn't even possibly have gotten near the pursuit vehicle...yet there they were, joining the chase anyway.

It is a very difficult decision for the police to make, and the death of an innocent child adds a lot of extra emotion to the equation. In the end, the police have to decide if it is better to let the perp escape this time (and hope he is NOT a violent or repeat offender), or do they endanger innocent lives in order to stop the crook at all costs.

One thing I can tell you is that, after watching all those police chases on TV, I NEVER go through an intersection without checking both ways first...even if *I* have the <font color=palegreen>green light</font>. I've seen too many accidents on the police videos caused by some idiot barreling right through a <font color=red>red light</font> and hitting cars going the other way. So I always look both ways before pulling out through an intersection.</font>

And the first time a perp they let get away do to a no-chase policy kills someone, the public will cry out for catch em at any cost. Either way they are looking at the possibility of lives lost.

And the first time a perp they let get away do to a no-chase policy kills someone, the public will cry out for catch em at any cost. Either way they are looking at the possibility of lives lost. </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=deepskyblue>You're exactly right, <font color=coral>Rokenn</font>. The police are truly in a "No Win" situation.</font>