15 000 deaths ! :(

Not from terrorism. Not in a war. Not in a faraway country. Not during Middle Age. It happened here and now, in France, this summer : 15 000 old people died from the heat wave that spread over Europe this summer. :(

Worse is, I tried to find an article in English to quote here,but I couldn't find any. Well, I found small articles saying how bad the heat wave has been and that some old people died, but not a single one saying how dreadful the number of deaths has been ! :(

They were all old people. Are they less 'people' ? The 9/11 event resulted in half that number of deaths, and yet it is considered a major historical event. What is it that makes these deaths less dreadful ?

This didn't happen everywhere in Europe. All European countries have suffered from the heat wave, and most of them registred a few hundred extra deaths, but France has got the appalling record. :(

Significantly, France also has the record of the fewer rate of people working on the care for old persons. One wonders why so many people are unemployed and yet when the heat wave struck there was a huge shortage of people taking care of our elders. One wonders in what kind of society we choose to live, where you are let out as son as you are no longer 'profitable'. :(

Our President and our Prime Minister didn't bother come back from their summer vacation when many hospital doctors raised the alarm. Our Government waited several days after they were aware of the dangers, to finally launch an emergency plan. Then after the disater happened, they tried to say they had not been told (! Not been told ! What is 'responsibility' all about ? :( ), and then they tried to hide the figures. And they proficiently accused the people of selfishness, for not having been attentive to their old neighbours. And as a logical consequence, since people are constantly told to run after more efficiency, more profitability, and can not spare time for simple human cares ... they plan to remove a national holiday so the profits or this additional day will be given to old people care. Makes a lot of sense - since the race for profit doesn't leave us enough free time to care about our neighbours, let's run some more. :(

I am ashamed of my country. I am ashamed of the society we choose to live in. :(

What do you think about it ? Did you learn about it in the news ? What do you suggest we do about it ?

I'm suprised you couldn't find s link Moiraine it was widely reported.

Yes, it was all over the news here as well. Quite a few old people would have died of the heat anyway, after all it happens every year, but these numbers were very disturbing.

Shows how much Chirac, or any other politician, cares about the people they rule. :rolleyes:

Moiraine that is indeed, shocking and horrible! That so many died and that so many tried to ignore the devestating numbers! I grieve with you. :( The age of the victims shouldn't matter, what SHOULD matter is that they were in need and nobody could or would give them the aid they required!

I heard about it on the television news and I realized that the heat must be pretty bad, but I couldn't believe the numbers they were saying at the time! It just didn't seem possible. I know we lose many older people to cold in winter or heat in summer, but I've never heard of any losses so huge any place else. :(

[ 09-19-2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

The last figure I'd heard on the news a week or so ago was 10,000. It was in the news here, Moiraine. The misbehavior of your government had not been reported, though -- at least that I heard.

I'd like to know what an average number is for summer in France, to get an idea of how many of the deaths were additional. Maybe I'm making this up, but I thought I heard the number 3,000 somewhere.

Since the heat wave you experienced is normal Summer weather where I live; I can really understand the health danger, especially for the very young and the elderly. Maybe it is because we are used to such weather that everyone makes a special effort to drink enough water, check on the sick and elderly, etc. What really shocked me were reports that it was so bad because people just went on long vacations without providing for elderly family members.

The number of deaths is just to shocking. Why didn't people do more, especially for their own family members? What was the government doing? How could so many die? I know that we all are struggling with these qeustions. I just pray that nothing like this happens again.

What difference would it have really made? Its not like they could wave their hands and make the temperature go down.

What difference would it have really made? Its not like they could wave their hands and make the temperature go down. </font>[/QUOTE]Sure but such act is inpropraite especially for a President or Prime Minister.

<font color = lightgreen>We did hear about your nation's tragedy here, Moiraine. Very, very sad and tragic. The behavior of some politicians is criminally--even inhumanly--negligent. [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

I know we usually have some deaths from heat every summer here in TX, but we have never suffered anything like what France just suffered.

Heat waves should be placed in the same category as other natural disasters like tsunami. The fact that a heat wave is slow means that people have time to prepare for it and guard against it.

However, this story is woefully underreported here. </font>

Other than insure that all citizens have access to a clean water supply and shaded workplace/break area there isn't much your government can/could do Moiraine except mourn the people you all have lost. Despite all of our modern technology we all still live at the whim of our world. Sometimes it is kind, and sometimes it is so cruel. I hope you did not lose anyone dear to you, and if you did, you have my condolensces.

I think that your government could have done much more than it did, Moiraine - the heatwave was unprecedented in French history and its very difficult (and costly) to prepare for things which have a low chance of ever happening.

The 'Killer' was the fact that the heat did not reduce substantially at night - so the body of the victims could not recover from the daytime excesses.

Under those circumstances, the weak and elderly became ill very quickly - their condition can be come terminal within as little as 48 hours, and for those around them (for example their neighbours) it is very difficult to see that they are distressed until the final 12 hour period.

Did they make air conditioned shelters available for the ill and elderly? Many cities in my area do that in bad heat waves. They take a senior center or school other major building and make it a public place to go if you are old or ill and need relief.

If needed, a bus or other transportation can be made available. Television, radio and actual PEOPLE can canvas areas of housing and let the public know the shelters are available and how to get to them. Public service messages to check on your neighbors could go out at the same time.

I don't know...I think they could have done more to help those in dire need. Not that everyone will or could have been saved in such cases, just that a whole lot MORE people might have made it through with some help.

'Green' Europe doesn't have that many air-conditioned public buildings and schools are generally not air-conditioned (for example). Many (but by no means all) office blocks have bought in to the idea to improve productivity and many shops have them to boost trade - but again, not all.

And of course, you have to also take into account that many old people are just too proud to ask for help too...

15,000? I doubt that! But even so, there were MANY MANY ways the government could have helped its people.

Moiraine that's an unbelievable tragedy. :(

The News made it to New York though. I'd read about it in the papers here.

Guys, sorry for not having posted sooner, I was on sick leave for a full week with a fever.

The very last figure is 14 802 deaths - and there still may be a few more, since dead old people are still being found in their home, those who had no relatives to inquire about them ...

According to French papers all over the last two months, here is what happened : in July, as the heat wave that had started last spring showed no sign of abating, many doctors warned about the risk for old people. They said that it was urgent to put in motion an emergency plan to cover two problems : the fact that there were not enough beds and people available if the number of sick people was to increase significantly, and the fact that there was no special system to ensure a regular watching of the fragile people in their home (there is such a system for babies, so people were abundantly warned about what to do for children, and thus no children died from the heat). But the people in power (the people on top of the health system and thus the government) didn't heed the doctors warnings.

When you are old, first you don't feel thirst as younger people do, and second, your sweating system doesn't work as well. So you may die from heat very very quickly, if you don't remember or are not reminded to drink and shower regularly, in a matter of hours. So part of what happened was that many people died alone at home because there was no one to check on them regularly. Another part was that, since the hospital were lacking beds and very short-handed, those old people who went to the hospital still faced high risks, since many had to be turned back home after a quick treatment to make room for others, and even inside hospitals, many people died because there were not enough people to take care that they all drank and had showers often enough. And similar problems occured in retirement houses, which were similarly short-handed. Doctors said that since the heat didn't abate even at night, old and fragile people couldn't rest at night, which increased their vulnerability.

So when the heat reached a height in the middle of August, the government, who claims "it hasn't been warned", delayed several days before they realized how dire the problem was and finally put in motion an emergency plan - sadly, too late for thousands of people.

The fact that the government last spring drastically reduced the aid given to old dependant people for external care was a significant factor too - many poor old people had to cut the external help they received, so they were at a higher risk of having no one to check on them often enough.

About the figures in the papers, they kept going higher and higher as time passed. I believe the government made all sorts of delaying actions - they said they didn't get all the decease certificates (!), they said they had to be sure the deaths were due to the heat (!), they said they weren't given all the figures (!!!) ...

So see, if our society had been really willing to take care of its elders, many things could have been done, by the government and the officials and the people, which would have prevented such a dreadful event. What I don't understand, for example, is that there are 2 million unemployed people in France, and yet the hospital and retirement houses were dramatically short-handed. Assigning unemployed people to take care of old people in their neighbourhood would cost nothing, since these people already get unemployment benefits. Why not ?

Or are we all fated to be dumped when we are no longer profitable ? :(

[ 09-26-2003, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

Can you imagine the scale of the riots that such an action would cause? It would make the '68 student protests look like a Ghandi peace demo. The unemployed would scream that unemployment benefits are a right because they paid their taxes for it, immigrant groups in high immigrant areas would call it a racist policy; meanwhile the unions would scream that it was a cynical ploy to undercut the wages/rights of health-care workers (and probably demand a general strike) and so on, and so on.

Being a French politician these days is *not* an enviable job!