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Chewbacca

07-25-2003 09:50 PM

How could 3 Nuns stop a nuclear missle?

Story

Quote:

DENVER, July 25 — Calling them “dangerously irresponsible,” a federal judge sentenced three nuns to at least 2½ years in prison Friday for vandalizing a nuclear missile silo during an antiwar protest last fall.

DESPITE HIS STRONG WORDS, U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn gave the women less than the six-year minimum term called for under sentencing guidelines. Jackie Hudson was sentenced to 2½ years, Carol Gilbert was sentenced to 2 years, 9 months, and Ardeth Platte was sentenced to 3 years, 5 months.
“We’re satisfied,” prosecutor Robert Brown said.

Hudson, 68, Gilbert, 55, and Platte, 66, were convicted in April of obstructing the national defense and damaging government property.
The Roman Catholic nuns cut a fence and walked onto a Minuteman III silo site in October, pounding the silo with hammers and painting a cross on it with their blood. Officials said they caused at least $1,000 in damage.
The nuns had until Aug. 25 to report to prison, but they chose to go immediately.

Some peace activists have said the felony convictions were harsh and intended to have a chilling effect on other protesters, but Brown said the nuns were repeat offenders who deserved prison. He said Platte had been arrested at least 10 times at anti-war protests, while Hudson had been arrested five times and Gilbert had been arrested at least 13 times.
“These ladies could not be deterred for the last 20 years. They will be deterred for the time the court sentences them,” Brown said.

The defense asked the judge for leniency Friday, saying even prosecution witnesses agreed that the nuns did not harm the national defense.
Beforehand, the nuns defiantly told a crowd of 150 supporters outside the courthouse that they were not afraid of prison.
“Whatever sentence I receive today will be joyfully accepted as an offering for peace, and with God’s help it will not injure my spirit,” a choked-up Platte said.

As for vandalizing the silo, Hudson said: “When someone holds a gun to your head or someone else’s head, do you not have a right and a duty to enter that arena and stop that crime?”
Many of those outside court waved antiwar banners, including one that read: “No Blood for Oil.”

The Roman Catholic nuns are longtime antiwar activists. Platte and Gilbert lived in a Baltimore activist community founded by the late peace activist Philip Berrigan. Hudson lived in a similar community in Poulsbo, Wash.
After their arrest, the women chose to stay in jail, refusing the government’s offer to release them on their own recognizance.
Hudson’s lawyer, Walter Gerash, insisted during the trial that the nuns did nothing to prevent the missile from “doing its demonic damage.” He compared the women to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and the American colonists who dumped tea into Boston Harbor.

[ 07-26-2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

Larry_OHF

07-26-2003 12:19 AM

My opinion is that they are doing this for the publicity and the dramatic effect it is having on the public. Trying to show the world that if we stoop so low as to lock away a few old nuns, then we are truly evil. I hope the 2-3 years will wake them up to their real calling as Nuns of the Church. I do not like it when people use their religious position in the community and play on the faith of those people to advance their own private agendas. If these nuns were truelly faithful to God, I would assume that they would realize the power of prayer. Not radical sneaky attempts at destruction and grafitti. 

[ 07-26-2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Chewbacca

07-26-2003 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
My opinion is that they are doing this for the publicity and the dramatic effect it is having on the public. Trying to show the world that if we stoop so low as to lock away a few old nuns, then we are truly evil. I hope the 2-3 years will wake them up to their real calling as Nuns of the Church. I do not like it when people use their religious position in the community and play on the faith of those people to advance their own private agendas. If these nuns were truelly faithful to God, I would assume that they would realize the power of prayer. Not radical sneaky attempts at destruction and grafitti.

Well Larry, I do agree that the Nuns were looking for publicity, but my opinion is they were trying to show the world how evil war and specifically nuclear weapons are. Considering they are long time anti-nuke activists I doubt prison will break their faith, if anything they will have plenty of time to pray and strenghten thier resolve.

I wonder if you would see the civil disobiedience of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and many other civil rights church leaders as "using their religious position in the community andplaying on the the faith of people to advance their own private agenda"? Perhaps they should have just stayed in church prayed for desegregation, voting rights, and equal protection under the law? I willing to bet we would not be living in the same world we do today if that were the case.

Besides, since when is calling for nuclear disarmament and the end of war a private agenda? The church is one of the modern eras biggest public proponents of peace we have, the Pope being very vocal in his opposition to the recent Iraq war. Should the Pope just have stayyed in the Vatican and prayed?

Anyway, just how do three elderly nuns get close enough to a missle silo to do these things anyway. Aren't nuclear weapons supposed to be heavily gaurded? What if it were three terorists with bombs instead of three nuns with a sledgehammer?

[ 07-26-2003, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

John D Harris

07-26-2003 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
Anyway, just how do three elderly nuns get close enough to a missle silo to do these things anyway. Aren't nuclear weapons supposed to be heavily gaurded? What if it were three terorists with bombs instead of three nuns with a sledgehammer?

The bomb would have blown up harmlessly out side the reinforced concrete and steel Missle silo, there's a world of differance between a homemade bomb and a military shaped explosive designed to penetrate reinforce concrete and steel. Most missle silos are just fenced off in the middle of "No Damn where" spread out over a wide area, so that many nukes are would be needed to take them out virtualy a one to one ratio.

Skunk

07-26-2003 09:52 AM

However you cut it, it *was* criminal damage - and for that they should be punished. There *are* other ways of demonstrating your opinions without resorting to such tactics. For example, in the UK a peace-camp was set up right outside the (then US) Greenham Common Cruise missile base - they stayed there for 19 years! - and eventually won.

Larry_OHF

07-26-2003 11:26 AM

Chewbacca, you have mentioned very good points and I also think I used the wrong term when I said "private agenda". I was trying to relate it to something else but the true meaning got lost in context of another. Yet I feel that they should not be compared to other historical moments. This was mere vandalism and did not help anything or aid in any meaningful project.

Maybe the whole thing is no more complex than simple perception.
Which side it is being viewed from matters.

Chewbacca

07-26-2003 01:46 PM

I totally agree the tactics they used were futile and of course criminal. Comparing them to MLK isn't really fair, for as I recall the passive resistance practiced during the civil rights movement never involved vandalism or trespassing on military installations. Dare I say these nuns were kinda dumb? I could think of a dozen ways to protest nukes and war without violating federal law. Many ways without even a misdemeanor, beginning with writing letters to my representatives and encouraging others to do the same.

But (always a but), I think the charge of obstructing national defense is a bit trumped up and a 2-3 year prison sentence is just about ludacris for an act of civil disobedience that harmed no one, except maybe the pride of the missle silo's gaurds. The thought of these nuns occupying jail space better left for "real" criminals bugs me.

Chewbacca

07-26-2003 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
Chewbacca, you have mentioned very good points and I also think I used the wrong term when I said "private agenda". I was trying to relate it to something else but the true meaning got lost in context of another. Yet I feel that they should not be compared to other historical moments. This was mere vandalism and did not help anything or aid in any meaningful project.

Maybe the whole thing is no more complex than simple perception.
Which side it is being viewed from matters.

No worries Larry! [img]smile.gif[/img] It's definitly a personal agenda and did little or nothing to further the anti-nuke cause in a purposeful way I would agree.

Skunk

07-26-2003 06:18 PM

Quote:

But (always a but), I think the charge of obstructing national defense is a bit trumped up and a 2-3 year prison sentence is just about ludacris

I agree - I think that they should have been ordered to pay damagess, plus costs and ordered to do 100 hours community service (for example).

Chewbacca

07-27-2003 02:39 PM

Hundreds carry on the protest! Perhaps the nuns aren't as dumb as I supposed and aren't serving prison in vain. Makes me wish I still lived in Denver.

My favorite is the plane flying overhead with the banner -
"We found the weapons of mass destruction here in Colorado."

Story

Quote:

MISSILE SITE M-11, Colo. July 26 —
Hundreds of demonstrators Saturday fanned out across parts of Colorado and Nebraska to carry on the work of pacifist nuns sentenced to prison for their anti-war protest at a missile silo.

Religious and political activists targeted the Minuteman III site, known as M-11, about 140 miles northeast of Denver one of 49 silo sites in Colorado to pray, sing, dance, beat drums and hang an eviction notice. Officials said protesters also gathered at three missile sites in southwestern Nebraska.

Jackie Hudson, 68, Ardeth Platte, 66, and Carol Gilbert, 55, were convicted in April of obstructing the national defense and damaging government property for cutting a fence and walking onto a Minuteman III silo site, swinging hammers and using their blood to paint a cross on the structure.

A federal judge Friday sentenced Hudson to 2 1/2 years, Platte to almost 3 1/2 years and Gilbert to two years and nine months. All three were given three years of supervised probation. Prosecutors said they hoped the sentences would deter others from similar protests.

"I don't think I ever would have thought of coming out here if it wouldn't have been for the nuns," said M-11 demonstrator Roseann McCullough of Denver.

One of the protest organizers, Bill Sulzman, said the Colorado demonstration showed the peace movement remained alive. Unlike the nuns, protesters Saturday did not try to break through the 6-foot-tall fence surrounding M-11, in the Pawnee National Grasslands.

"The three sisters stirred up a lot more interest," Sulzman said. "We've put the silos on the map as never before."

Cmdr. Hank Rusch said the protesters had informed Weld County sheriff's deputies of plans for the Colorado protest, and there were no incidents.

Colorado protesters arrived at the missile site in cars with signs proclaiming "Citizen Weapons Inspector." A plane flew overhead with a banner stating: "We found the weapons of mass destruction here in Colorado."

khazadman

07-27-2003 02:54 PM

But these three have 28 arrests between them Chewbacca, so it's not like this was their first time in court.

Sir Taliesin

07-28-2003 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by khazadman:
But these three have 28 arrests between them Chewbacca, so it's not like this was their first time in court.

Chewbacca

07-28-2003 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by khazadman:
But these three have 28 arrests between them Chewbacca, so it's not like this was their first time in court.

khazadman

07-28-2003 10:09 PM

I am of the opinion that they should prosecute ALL of these idiot protesters that keep tresspassing on federal property and damaging government property. A few years ago some of these idiots rode into the naval base in Norfolk and tried to climb onto a nuclear sub tied up by one of the piers. Of course the peaceniks didn't care that there were divers in the waters. But I'm quite sure they realised the sheer stupidity of what they did when they were greeted by armed Marines ready to shoot them.

Sir Taliesin

07-29-2003 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by khazadman:
But these three have 28 arrests between them Chewbacca, so it's not like this was their first time in court.

My guess is this is what got them jail time. Now the court time can be used for other more serious crimes and the nuns get the chance to convert some potential new followers to Christianity. EVERYONE WINS!!! [/QUOTE]So you believe these nun's actions actually obstructed national defense? If so how exactly?

Oh and as far a freeing up the federal courts...They would have been free in the first place if these stupid charges were never prosecuted.

Oh and nuns typically aren't in the business of conversion, at least the ones I have met have never tried to convert me to anything. [/QUOTE]You need to go back and read the first line of the story you posted. So you don't have to here is the quote. "Calling them “dangerously irresponsible,” a federal judge sentenced three nuns to at least 2½ years in prison Friday for vandalizing a nuclear missile silo during an antiwar protest last fall." They didn't go to jail over National Defense issues, they went to jail for VANDALIZING. People are prosecuted for that all the time though usually on a local level. In this case the local authorities probably didn't have any jurisdiction, since they were stupid enough to vandalize FEDERAL Property, which is a FEDERAL offense. FEDERAL offenses usually carry a much stiffer sentence than state or local charges. I'm sure the Judge in this case looked at their previous arrest records and probably threw the book at them, hoping they MIGHT learn a lesson.

As far as Nun's converting others, not being a Catholic, I really don't have a clue what Nuns do, but I would have to assume that since they belong to a order in the Church, that converting others to Catholism/Christainity was one of the primary missions. I know they do other things, but in Catholoc Schools aren't they the ones that teach? Isn't that what Jesus, Preists, Reverends, Pastors, Monks, Ministers or leaders of any church or religious organization does?

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