Curious in this day and age of terrorists, serial murders, and child abductors the state of Rhode Island can spare 20 state troopers to harrass native americans for selling tobacco. I wonder how many people got away driving dangerously fast while this was going on?

Anyway, should this tribe and others have the right to sell goods free from state tax, as autonomous nations? I say yes indeed.

Smoke Shop Raid

If their a sovereign Nation then why are we paying them welfare and other subsidies?

Because we slaughtered them as part of 'Manifest Destiny'. Then through systematic governmental policies tried to wipe out their culture.

Because we slaughtered them as part of 'Manifest Destiny'. Then through systematic governmental policies tried to wipe out their culture. </font>[/QUOTE]And giving them a tax-exemption makes it alright? Or does it just make everyone feel better?

Because we slaughtered them as part of 'Manifest Destiny'. Then through systematic governmental policies tried to wipe out their culture. </font>[/QUOTE]And giving them a tax-exemption makes it alright? Or does it just make everyone feel better? </font>[/QUOTE]No, nothing can make right taking someone children away from them, punishing them when they spoke their own language and forcing them to covert to christianity. Nothing can make right taking away their fertile land and moving them to desolate wastelands to eek out existence under the goverments watchful eye. Nothing can make right those crimes.

It's a start. If you truly wanted to repay them for atrocities like the Trail of Tears you would kick all the emigrants off their land and give it back to them as a true sovereign nation. Forgoing that the government balances the issues as best they can.

If you want a fuller sampling of the horrors visited on the Native population during the ethnic cleansing of north america try reading Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West and try not to weep.

[ 07-15-2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]

Tax-free Casinos on Indian land were just the beginning. It's nice, IMO, to see the Indians screwing the government for a change. As the tax-free store trend continues, however, I fear the government will come up with a reason why it can tax on Indian land.

I say they should enjoy it while they can -- and rightfully so. If they aren't allowed to scalp arrogant white a-holes, at least they can screw 'em a little bit by denying the gov't a few tax dollars.

We've got the same issues here in Canada.

Natives do not pay tax as long as the goods are purchased on band land. It's their land, let them do as they wish.

As for the subsidies, and social assistance that's a whole different ball game.

Tell me if I'm wrong here Timber, but isn't indian land federal land? And so doesn't that make what the Governor did illegal? Nothing would make me happier than to see the state humiliated in this.

Aaaawww. Why don't you just cry me a handful Rokenn. What happened to the indians in this country is exactly what happened all over the world when primitive people were invaded by a technologically superior people. And crying about the past will never help them. And this coming from someone who had ancesters who walked the Trail of Tears.

Keep your patronizing bullshit to yourself khaz. I was merely pointing out the fact that the VAST mojority of Americans do not know what really happened in the Indian wars. And if you can read the book I linked to without shedding a tear then I am sad for you, as you have no heart and are most likely not even human.

I don't give a damn about the past. constantly harping on the past only leads to what is going on in the middle east, the Balkins, and Ireland, etc. These people are whining about things that happened hundreds of years ago. Give me a break. What should matter to the indians is changing the present. They need to get rid of these corrupt tribal leaders that bring in gambling and treat the reservations like their own little third world countries. They need more than gambling to bring in income. They need manufacturing jobs and such. They need schools and hospitals and basic services. And they have had their culture destroied. Their culture is now something for the tourists. Most indians live like the rest of us (albeit poor) Americans. Hell, many don't even speak their native languages anymore. And with many it's just like a hobby.

Khazadman, the Indian lands, IIRC, are on federal land that is designated Indian country and is governed by the treaties between the USA and the Indian nations. It's more complex than just "federal land." It is truly a set of sovereign nations within the US sovereign nation. Now, I think federal law enforcement officers, including tribal officers, are the only officers having jurisdiction on Indian lands.

Casinos do bring jobs to Indian lands. A casino is a large employer. Monetarily, it benefits the Indian community better than anything else has.

Property tax and sales tax don't apply -- as these are state taxes. So, even if national taxes did apply on Indian lands, the state ones WON'T.

Weird, honoring the ancestors of the past is a staple in many native traditions, that are still practiced today. The Native American Church is a large and vibrant community commited to carrying forward the traditions of many tribes that walked the trail of tears. How can someone say the past should not matter to these people?

There's a reason why there's a saying that "Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it".
Speaking as a Jewish person, I hope no one ever forgets about the Holocoust and the Purges in Stalin's Soviet Union so that it will never happen again. I'm sure that same reasoning is why Native Americans would not want us to forget what was done to their people. It's not about getting revenge or retalliation for what happened, it's about making sure no one else ever has to go through it.

<font color=deepskyblue>Some interesting points on both sides. Since the Indian reservations are considered "sovereign nations", I would say the tobacco store should be tax-exempt. The state agrees with this as long as the sales are made to Native American residents of the reservation, but do not apply if non-residents go there to purchase their tobacco. I say it should be tax-exempt - period. If the whiteys choose to drive to this "sovereign nation" to purchase their tobacco, I don't see that the state of Rhode Island should have much to say about it.

But the point about the federal government subsidizing them with welfare and other federal funding is a good point also. If the reservations want to truly be a "sovereign state", then they should also be willing to stand on their own. Of course, the issue is more complicated than that. The debate over the casino is a perfect example. If the reservation were truly a sovereign nation, the Rhode Island legislature shouldn't be able to say diddly-squat about whether they can or can't build a casino there.

I live close enough to drive to the Cherokee reservation here in western NC. For many years, the residents there lived in severe poverty conditions (for the most part). Alcoholism and teen pregnancies and unemployment were major concerns. Then the reservation opened a Bingo parlor and started generating some good revenue. When the Atlanta Braves finally became a contender in baseball, it proved to be another boon for Cherokee, NC - they were the ones that made all those tomahawks the Atlanta fans waved so feverishly. Finally, Cherokee got a full scale Harrah's casino. The amount of money (and jobs) THAT generated is unbelievable. And it doesn't just benefit the residents of the reservation. Any resident of western NC that can prove a heritage of at least 1/16 Cherokee can be added to the official "role" of Cherokee people. Anyone on that role receives a monthly check from the Cherokee tribe representing their portion of the proceeds generated by these various businesses.</font>

<font color=lime><font color=plum>{OFF TOPIC}</font> - Speaking of the Cherokee and the Trail of Tears, have any of our Native American members ever heard of "Cross Rocks"???

These are rocks that are shaped like a cross (theoretically anyway - in actuality, many of them look more like an "X") and are supposedly found ONLY along the Trail of Tears. Legend has it that these rocks mark the burial spots of those who died along that Trail and were formed from the tears of their loved ones. Those who hunt these rocks verify that they are very "localized". They will find a spot containing several Cross Rocks, then a few feet away, there won't be any at all. They are always very closely grouped.

Another theory is that these were made as crude markers by their surviving loved ones and left to mark the graves. There is only one problem with that theory, the Cherokee weren't Christians...so WHY would they use the holy symbol of their oppressors to mark the graves of those killed by the cruelty being inflicted upon them?

The reason I'm asking is that my wife's coworker brought several of these rocks to work and gave some of them to her. I've seen them for myself, so I know that they DO exist. I was just wondering if anyone could give an explanation of them from a Native American perspective.</font>

Cerek, I am unfamilair with cross rocks, but I do know that variations of the cross is part of native symbology. So many tribes, so many similarities as well as differences. Very interesting. Perhaps it is possible that these stones were laid by sympathetic christian non-natives?

The last 30 years have seen a huge improvement for the standard of life for indigenous Americans as well as a resurgence of their various cultures. I went to a giant NAC gathering in Colorado a while back, as well as visited various pow-wows in the southeast. I think on the whole, We, us and them, are on the right road. Of course there will be bumps, as this R.I. debacle illustrates, but we can work it out. [img]graemlins/hippysmile.gif[/img]