Can an unhealthy individual (either mentally, spiritually, sexually) form a healthy relationship with others(friendship, partnership etc)?

NOTE

the result of the vote by no means represent the universal truth. it is just a reflection of BOARD opinions.

also, mind discuss why you vote your choice?

[ 04-09-2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: TheThing ]

Argh! Some one has an opinion different from mine?!? That can't be. ;)

In retrospect my vote was predicated on what I thought was ment by spiritually and sexually unhealthy. I would be interested in what TheThing actually had in mind (i.e. is "sexually unhealthy" reserved only for sex offenders or is it broad, including the sexually frustrated?). ;)

[ 04-09-2002, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: onthepequod ]

First of all, I don't think ANYONE really qualifies as healthy. We all have quirks (or something on a scale of minor to extreme) and even the most balanced of us could have some idiosynchrocy that makes the judgment of "unique".

I think the best we are comes out when we accept people as they are without judgement.

So yes... the healthy part comes out when we care for one another.

I do think "Healthy" can be achieved if both work at it. Sorry but I don't think simply caring for someone does the trick in many cases but if one partner/friend has a problem or issues that need dealing with and BOTH are willing to work on them and in some cases if the problems are serious enough, to seek professional help, then yes, of course it can work!

Now in friendships I don't think we are talking running off to counseling with the 'unhealthy' party necessarily, but supporting them if they need it is good and useful.

In a romance of course, it is more likely both will be involved in such things if the issues/problems are serious. If not, they can and most do, work things out together. I think we all come to relationships with our own agendas and backlog of experiences that effect us. Guess, like OTP, I'd want more detail on what you meant by 'unhealthy'. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I dont think anything can properly be described with more than one person coming to an accordance to it, that's why we have individuality... but if you should develop a relationship with someone who seems to be IDENTICAL to your own individual self, could you then be in what would be considered a "healthy" relationship? Perhaps, then again perhaps not, Opinion leads to nothing, science and fact leads to everything. The point of this poll is to answer questions, rather I think it raises them...

I vote yes on all three. Although some one who is so unhealthy as to behave immorally and inflict harm (sexual or otherwise) upon another does not deserve the rewards of close relationships, until after doing hard time.

Spiritually and sexually, relationships can be one of our greatest teachers and healers of Ourselves. In other-words we can sometimes learn healthy relationship behaviors from our own mistakes in relationships.

As someone who occassionally interacts with a house full of mentally ill people(schitzophrenics) I think its a diservice to them not to be open and friendly. Also a compassionate and tolerant "healthy" person can develop a strong friendship with a schitzophrenic or other mentally ill person. Though an intimate, sexual relationship would be hard to maintain due to emotional detachment, at least from what I understand of that illness in particular.

interesting, the result is totally opposite of what I anti-cipated [img]smile.gif[/img]

anyway, my vote is "yes". the individual healthiness does not determine the healthiness of relationship. however, the intimacy and depth of bond does rely on individual's healthniess.

just my opinion.

But aren’t intimacy and depth integral to the health of a relationship. That is to say the more intimate and the deeper the relationship the healthier it is. For example a resting heart rate below 65 beats per minute is not requisite for being a healthy individual, however, it does make one healthier, ceteris peribus. Therefore, I argue, that the degree a relationship’s health is determined by the degree to which the individuals themselves are healthy people.

I think it is important to keep in mind that the health of a relationship is something measured on a continuum. Relationships are not simply good or bad. Some are better than others (therefore healthier), which most of the time is dictated by aspects such as intimacy and depth. IMHO. ;)

The definition of unhealthy is the antithes of healthy. Therefore, an unhealthy individual cannot form something healthy in the same aspect. A physically unhealthy person could not be physically healthy at the same time. Therefore someone defined as mentally unhealthy could not form healthy mental relationships. A sexually unhealthy person could not form healthy sexual relationships, but may be able to have perfecly healthy relationships with freinds and family because that particular aspect isn't involved. The variable occurs in the fact that everyone has their own opinions of what defines healthy/unhealthy. A physically handicapped person may see a slightly overweight person who wears glasses, smokes, and has hayfever as perfectly healthy. A trained athelete may view the same person as somewhat unhealthy. It's all in the point of view. Many aspects can also "overlap" into others, causing problems in a variety of areas in differing degrees.

[ 04-10-2002, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ]

a physically unhealthy person can still participate in healthy exersize.

you see, if two individuals in a relationship do not try to work towards each other, end of the story. It doesn't matter if both parties are healthy. however, the opposite is true when both are willing to cooperate. so individual healthiness is not a required elemante.

also, another way of looking at it is, we all have "dark sides", an unhealthy individual may have more of dark side, or had not developed a healthy strategy to cop with it. the process of growth is not only to live as a seperate individual, but to live healthily as a CONNECTED individual. by exploring the dark sides, one can find healthy strategy to cop, thus create a healthy bonding.

[ 04-10-2002, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: TheThing ]

yeah, agree. but that doesnt contradict what I am asking ^^

[ 04-10-2002, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: TheThing ]

I think....ummmm never mind [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ok I decided to post after all...After reading Charean's post I just had to put something in here.

There are sincerely UNHEALTHY people out there who are completely incapable of forming any kind of beneficial relationship. There are also a LARGE number of "healthy" people, meaning people who fit within a certain statistical "norm" who can but not WILL have healthy relationships...the problem with the term "Healthy" is that it is a reletive/subjective term and not an absolute.

As for accepting people for who they are without judgement...that is sheer maddness, to accept pedofiles and rapists and psychotic killers into ones society is asking for destruction loss and UNHEALTHY occurrances.

[img]smile.gif[/img] There [img]smile.gif[/img] that being said, I wouldn't condemn Charean if he/she wishes to accept those people as ok, its his/her choice.

[ 04-10-2002, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Agreed. But as you recall my point as applied to this arguement would be the physically unhealthy person is still less heathly than a healthy person. You see, my entire post was solely in response to your statement "The individual healthiness does not determine the healthiness of relationship. however, the intimacy and depth of bond does rely on individual's healthniess."

I also agree with this point. That was why I made my arguement "ceteris peribus" (meaning all other things held constant). Athough I would argue that ones willingnes to work toward another is more than likely reflective of ones emotional health. Consequently, this would be another potential relational hiderance of an emotionally unhealthy person.

I never said that individual health was requisite for a healthly relationship. What I argued was; the healthier the participants, the healthier the relationship (as a general rule of thumb) as opposed to "The individual healthiness does not determine the healthiness of relationship."

Ultimately, my point was this; you state "The individual healthiness does not determine the healthiness of relationship. however, the intimacy and depth of bond does rely on individual's healthniess." I on the other hand am saying you cannot say intimacy and depth of relationship are reliant on the health (emotional etc...)of the individuals in the relationship while the relationship itself is not. This, IMHO, cannot be the case because the health of a relationship is dependant on its depth and intimacy. ;)

[ 04-10-2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: onthepequod ]

yeah, agree. but that doesnt contradict what I am asking ^^</font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't. My response had nothing to do with your initial question and was solely directed at your subsequent statement "The individual healthiness does not determine the healthiness of relationship. however, the intimacy and depth of bond does rely on individual's healthniess." ;)

I found your initial question interesting and am still waiting to hear what you had in mind by the term "healthy" (see my very first post in this thread). ;)

[ 04-10-2002, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: onthepequod ]

ahhhh....deep philosophical debate *rolls up sleeves*

I really don't think we can truly answer this one. Because it all depends on what your definition of a "Healthy Relationship" is. (not to mention what a "Healthy Person" is) If two people are in a relationship where one person is getting physically abused, but their previous relationship they were getting raped and mentally abused, isn't their only physically abusive relationship much more "healthy" for them? Or the couple that has lived together for 25 years of marriage, never fights, respect's each other's work, has 3 beautiful daughters, but hasn't slept in the same room for 8 years and freely admits that they don't "love" each other anymore. Is that a "Healthy" relationship? Each person knows where they stand, what they are going to get out of it, and is happy about it?

Personally, I have a hard time having a relationship with others before I got my relationship with myself and my relationship with myself and my Deity first. Can't love someone else before you can allow yourself to love you...and then the whole God-fearing/loving thing...

It's a very good question that I'm sure if you asked 100 people, you would get 100 view points. Best part is, for them, they are all correct. One can argue the many points that has been put on this board with different angles and you are both going to be correct from your viewpoint. [img]smile.gif[/img]

If it makes you truly happy, good. If you look into the mirror at 4 am and no one is around and you can look into the mirror and are happy with what you see in your relationship, then it really doesn't matter what other's thing. Be happy, for happiness is a truly fleeting commodity.

BK

I think it is possible to have a healthy relationship with an 'ill' person..... but you must watch yourself though. and KOTTONMOUTH KINGS AND ICP AND TWIZTED ROCK!!!!!

As long as both parties are willing to work out a relationship, individual's healthiness or the lack of can be properly dealt with.

there is no standard definition to what is healthy. my measurement is as good as yours, however there are some commen things to be accepted as "healthy". just exercise your commen sense, no need to put it into words. (and I cannot)

my point is already made. a less healthy person can have a healthy relationship. but the first that this less healthy individual must be willing to explore and accept his/her own shadows. to deny that means self destruction as a whole. no relationship is possible until one stops denying.

[ 04-11-2002, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: TheThing ]