Earlier today I was over in a pagan forum (geesh, now there's a surprise!) and I was reading a thread in which they were discussing 'false witches' vs 'true witches'. Now, the debate was as expected...everyone's personal definitions and experiences with both practitioners and wanna-bes. But what caught my eye was one person's telling of how he had known a person who actually purported to worship a D&D god (or more, not specified)!

Has anyone else heard of this or had a related experience? It was too weird to read--and with the exception of one other person, I seemed to be the only one who actually was into rpgs so that I knew what they were talking about.

[img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

I suggest that person seriously needs to get a life! [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] That's the kind of thing that gives regular gamers like us a bad name among the religious lunatic fringe.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
Earlier today I was over in a pagan forum (geesh, now there's a surprise!) and I was reading a thread in which they were discussing 'false witches' vs 'true witches'. Now, the debate was as expected...everyone's personal definitions and experiences with both practitioners and wanna-bes. But what caught my eye was one person's telling of how he had known a person who actually purported to worship a D&D god (or more, not specified)!

Has anyone else heard of this or had a related experience? It was too weird to read--and with the exception of one other person, I seemed to be the only one who actually was into rpgs so that I knew what they were talking about.<hr></blockquote>

No different than making a carving from wood, and worshiping it as your god I suppose.

Very loopy though I must say.

Hey we could start something! Let's invent a diety!

Y'Ma Har Tsanoya - god of Idiotism. He should be worshipped by banging ones head against a brick wall (physically or mentally) and believing as fact every single thing one reads. :D

<font color=skyblue>
Er...is it just as bad to be studying Tolkien's Elvish Language?

I know people who are quite fluent in it, and I have studied it a bit.

That is not totally the same, but close enough...

Yet, I have never heard of anyone actually worshipping a D&D God, unless they are so into their D&D character, that they start to think themselves into the fantasy world...</font>

Hi Garnet, long-time no chat, eh!

Considering Jung's theory of the Archtypes of the collective unconscious in relation to shaman practices of trance to access ones inner-selves it is potentially concievable for an individuals inner guides to take the "form" or "personea" of something that is strongly relevant to that person's individual psyche and social conditioning. A long time d&d player's unconsious may be drawn toward the mythic and symbolic imagery that is afforded by the fantasy setting.

Also I believe the consciuos finding of meaning in "imaginary dieties" to be no different in finding meaning in dietic archtypes typical to the egyptian, greek, norse, celtic, and other "real" mythos that are prevalent to modern shamanic/pagan practices. One may find for themselves, as an individual, a connection to the divine, and I say let them.

anyway just one way of looking at such an interesting topic. As a long time d&d player and trance practioner, I have yet to have any d&d god visions, besides abstract dreams. But I do identify with my characters on many levels and have learned alot about myself by playing the different roles d&d affords. Most of all I learned that the imagination is well worth proliferating! [img]smile.gif[/img]

G'kar! My long lost love! How ya been?

Wellll.....I've worked with trance, too and can understand what you're saying. And I would agree with the notion that a serious gamer gets 'into' his or her character as an extension of personality, but it seems to me that this might be a case of someone going a little....loopy. The poster mentioned that what really weirded him out about the person was the fact that he quite seriously insisted that he was some 2000 years old as well as other 'facts'. And since this was on a pagan forum, it's not like anyone was knocking him for believing in as aspect other than the socially recognized 'god'. [img]smile.gif[/img]

'Course, this d&d follower was being severely ridiculed about believing in a game so strongly. ::shakes head:: Now *that* upset me!

Larry, in high school I studied the hobbit language to the point that my bf and I wrote all our letters/notes in hobbit! Don't remember it now, of course, but surely was fun then.

Yorick, I know some devout followers of Y'Ma Har Tsanoya! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

And finally, Saz. While I could be on the religious fringe, though perhaps not the lunatic, I do agree that such reflect badly on the rest of us.

And I will save everyone the trouble and finish with---I may be a lunatic, but I'm a happy loon! :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
I may be a lunatic, but I'm a happy loon! :D <hr></blockquote>
But are you in my head? Or on the grass? Got to keep the loonies off the grass!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:

But are you in my head? Or on the grass? Got to keep the loonies off the grass!<hr></blockquote>

Why, let them on the grass, take aim and lots of organic fertilizer. Just need some sort of chemicals to remove the smell.

<font color="cyan">Whoh, this thread has just f**ked my head.

Do you ever get something, where the chances of it happening are 0.00001%?

I say this, as today, I went to a General Studies lesson. And it was on Religion. (I have to say, I was a shining star in the class, I didnt know a thing). Ok, so my religion knowledge sucks. I only know things about Christianity, and we were talking about Buddhism, Islam, all of them.

Then the teacher said :" someone asked me the other day, if it was possible to start their own religion, and the answer is yes".

Now, my thoughts drifted at this part, once again, away from the lesson.

This was established as being stupid, as no1 wud follow it. Then I thought to myself: wait, people could worship the gods of D&D. The God of Tymora, and so on and so forth.

It was just a passing thought, but the chances of seeing a thread on it tonight has messed my head up nice and good...

But I dnt think its that freaky, I suppose it is the same as worshipping any God ..i.e Shiva, Vishnu, Christ. They all started from stories did they not?? No1 can actually prove their existence can they? And they follow a similar suite to Father Xmas...story...

Please, no1 take offence. </font>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
G'kar! My long lost love! How ya been?
And finally, Saz. While I could be on the religious fringe, though perhaps not the lunatic, I do agree that such reflect badly on the rest of us.

And I will save everyone the trouble and finish with---I may be a lunatic, but I'm a happy loon! :D <hr></blockquote>

Aaak!! Garnet, wasn't referring to you in any way, dear...I was thinking of Jack Chick and Pat Pulling and their ilk who go around spreading things like playing D&D will lead to devil worship and the like. All we need is some fruit loop on a forum claiming that s/he worships Bane or Cyric or something like that to add more fuel to their fires.

Actually, I shouldn't pick on poor Jack Chick that much. He is a bloomin' banana, but his psycho-religious comic book tracts are an absolute scream! Among other things, they're likely partly responsible for several trends in Goth fashion. ;) :D

Cheers,

Sazerac, I agree with you. All we need in RPG'ing is another media firestorm about something that 99% of us don't give a hoot about, anyway. In my roleplaying, I always use Helm as a Christ-figure, so I don't feel guilty when I invoke Him.

<font color = red> Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game?

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: andora20 ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by andora20:
[QB Wasn't there a Babylonian god called Bhaal? Sometimes the RPG's could be based on gods of ancient religions, and unless the guy said he was worshiping a god from DnD world, maybe he was unaware that the god he believed in was also from a game?[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Andora, could you change your color scheme? Black on dark brown is a pain in the rump to see! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Actually, the name of the god was B'aal, which was the Phoenecian god of agriculture. B'aal was demonized when the Hebrews returned to Israel and began to convert the Philistines and other races in the region to the worship of Yahweh. Some of the best stories in the Old Testament (Samson & Delilah, Ahab & Jezebel, Elijah, etc.) concern the old B'aal worship. B'aal, from what I can tell, originally wasn't an evil god like Moloch, to whom the indigent tribes sacrificed their children. (Notice that Moloch is the name of a type of Demon in AD&D as well, sort of like a Balor).

It's ok, Sazerac. I took no offense at all (seldom do around here--we're all loons to some degree about something).

Evidently this guy was very definitive when he claimed to worship D & D god(s). :rolleyes: Who knows. But I agree that this would just about be all we need to send the fanatic fringe into spasms over rpging!

Lavi, haven't you learned yet there is no such thing as coincidence? <cue Twilight Zone music>

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]</p>

You don't have to feel guilty to role play in a game a bit. It's just imaginary adventures. It's just like reading an interactive book. Have fun! The problem is when people blur the boundary between fantasy and reality. It happens a lot, and not just to RPG players. As a matter of fact, I would say the world of porn and deviant sex has a lot more crazies than RPGs could ever have. The problem occurs when someone sees their reality as so burdensome, that the fantasy world becomes the real one to them. They want it to be real so badly that they convince themselves that it is so.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
<font color=skyblue>
Er...is it just as bad to be studying Tolkien's Elvish Language?

I know people who are quite fluent in it, and I have studied it a bit.

That is not totally the same, but close enough...

Yet, I have never heard of anyone actually worshipping a D&D God, unless they are so into their D&D character, that they start to think themselves into the fantasy world...</font><hr></blockquote>

larry, i dont think its quite the same. i mean, tolkiens languages are based upon deep cultural significance and based on real languages, and have nothing to do with religion. plus the books that give them background are not rpgs, they are real books with meaningful stories. tolkiens languages (there are many, not only elvish) are so complicated, and so well thought out, many experts single them out as a perfect example of a creation of a language from ground zero, from one person. even those that are less developed by tolkien due to lack of time (well, he died) are amazingly complex. take adunaic, for example. he managed to create an entire language set with distinct rules with just a couple of words and phrases. simply genius.

regarding the people that study these languages, the main difference with the person worshipping ad&d gods, is that they dont worship tolkien, nor the languages, nor the gods in lotr. they are just scholars or tolkien fans who took it upon them to study a language that they liked. btw, anyone who wants to know more about this subject, go to this page. its the most complete and serious work on tolkiens invented languages.

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf

Just out of curiousity, <font color="plum">Garnet</font>, which D&D god(s) did this person claim to worship?

Since "Lady Luck" is a commonly accepted concept in American society, I can see how someone might blur that with worshipping Tymora (I think she's the goddes of thieves and luck).

<font color="cyan">Larry</font>, learning Tolkien elvish is no different than a "Trekkie" learning the Klingon or Romulan language. As <font color="plum">Garnet</font> pointed out, it's a great way to "talk in code" with someone else who understands the language. (BTW, <font color="plum">Garnet</font>, I think the idea of you and your HS boyfriend writing to each other in Hobbit is just tooooo cool).

<font color="yellow">Saz</font>, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is.

I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo.

It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
<font color="yellow">Saz</font>, I knew immediately who you were referring to as the "religious lunatic fringe". I was soooooo tempted to begin this thread with a "tongue-in-cheek" response from a "mad-as-hell, Bible-thumping Southern Baptist"....but that would triviliaze how truly unfortunate this entire situation is.

I'm saddened for the person in question because of his apparantly delusional state of mind...and I'm saddened for gamers because - as you pointed out - it is EXACTLY this type of occurrance that "fans the flames" of AD&D being labeled a social taboo.

It's ironic that...when Gygax first came out with the game...it was considered a revolutionary product and several schools actually incorporated it into their Advanced Curriculums because of the creativeness and imagination it inspired.<hr></blockquote>

I actually know as many religious people who like AD&D as those who don't; many who are regular players. The struggle for good vs. evil has long been a theme in religion, and AD&D lets people play that out. I've seen Baptist lay and youth ministers and Catholic priests play the game, and are fine with it. Like I said, it's the lunatic fringe you have to watch out for. The 1/2 of a percent of the population out there that yells at the top of their lungs so you think that it's a lot more than what it is.

They're also the same ones who ban (or burn) books and records because it doesn't "jive" with their blinkered world view. :rolleyes:

Ah well...

Sorry, Cerek, he didn't say exactly which one(s) as this was not important to the thread in question, merely an illustration of sorts. Too bad. One thing I've learned and constantly amazes me--actually commented to Budha this morn on it as I was relating the info--was that if it had been a discussion bere, it would have not only digressed but been a great deal more in-depth and thought through!

Yep, it was cool to correspond in hobbit. Recently I dled dwarven runes just for a goof (well, they're handy for story writing, too, as background info) and was telling the kids how I used to actually use a 'made-up' language in rl. They all thought that was just too weird and mom had obviously lost her last marble. :D

Heck, I *love* to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:

Heck, I *love* to use the phrase "what in the nine hell do you think you're doing?" and watch people try to figure it out [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Heh heh, weirdness must be very widespread, I say that often to my friends and other people, and the look of confusion when they hear it's so funny.
But then, I'm like that, I often start talking in slightly archaic English.