the subject came up in a philosophicle debate...and I know this might surprise you all but I was in the minority position in my thoughts on this.

To me being ethical requires the following.

Honesty
Loyalty
A code of conduct that you live by and believe in
Having a set of values that consist of: treating others as you want to be treated, opposing evil/wrongs when you see them and standing by your convictions even in the face of danger or ridicule.

I think along with all that CONSISTANCY must also be in there....so what are your thoughts Cleaveland????

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

An Inherant respect for them selves, for others, and for their surroundings.

I think having a "set of values" and "code of conduct" pretty much sums it up. The problem defining ethics is that each person can have a different set of values and codes.

My personal code of ethics would be right in line with yours http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/rb.gif http://www.usflag.org/animate/flagwave1.gif

"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

Yes, people do have different codes of ethics and I think the whole term can be considered rather subjective. Im sure if asked the guys who rammed the planes into the Trade Towers would have said they were ethical.

When it comes to subjective definitions then I sort of defer to what is considerd normal by the majority of the society involved...there being no other place but god to divine absolute truth... a sticky wicket all in all

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

I agree with your definition of ethical.

Do tell me that, once sufficient responses have been given to satisfy your curiosity, you will post what the 'majority' thinks ethical is.

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...dragonmage.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif
Alureth...Dragon friend of Breanna, Mage and Advisor in the Court of Lady Lioness

Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Second Historian and Scribe of IW. Mother Hen of IW.
Mage extraordinair, Pin-Up Girl for the OLD-COOTS
Magey-Wagey: performer in the Nekked Dancing Trio of the ORT.

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

Here is an example. Just happened yesterday.

I went to a comicbook shop and bought 3 trade paperbacks.

1)Preacher Book 3: Ancient History $14.95
2)Preacher Book 4: Dixie Fried $14.95
3)Nick Fury Agent of Shield by Jim Steranko $19.95 (All good stuff!)

I didn't pay attention to how much they were at the time. but the bill was something like $36.00.

I was looking them over last night and noted the prices and I saw, without tax, it would be $49.85. I was telling my wife about it and our eyes met and I said, "I have to go back and pay for this!" She wholeheartedly agreed! (That's my Deb!)

You may not know this, but comicbook shops are not very, very profitable. They are a labor of love for the owners, so I knew he could not afford to take any losses, no matter how small.

I called the shop, told him what I thought had happened and he said honest Abe Lincoln was not dead! I told him I'd come by tomorrow to give him the money I owed and I tried to give him my name and phone number. He wouldn't take the info saying he trusts me. I think I shopped at his place maybe 3 times, so I insisted he take the information in case I couldn't make it and then perhaps forget about it. He took my name and number.

Today I drove to his shop, paid what I owed, and then he tried to give me free stuff! I told him, "Honesty requires no reward." I refused the freebees.

Now this may sound like a self serving post, but I felt really great doing what I did and to see the look on his face when I "closed" the deal was more than worth it! I could have used that extra $14.95, but this was the better way to go!

Thanx MagiK, for giving me an opportunity to pat myself on the back on this forum! I give all the credit to my parents - they're the ones who raised me right!



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Still The Most Humbly Prideful (?) Member Of The Illuminati!

Mark

*pats Skywalker on the back, too*

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../xyxthumbs.gif, dude!

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...dragonmage.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif
Alureth...Dragon friend of Breanna, Mage and Advisor in the Court of Lady Lioness

Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Second Historian and Scribe of IW. Mother Hen of IW.
Mage extraordinair, Pin-Up Girl for the OLD-COOTS
Magey-Wagey: performer in the Nekked Dancing Trio of the ORT.

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

In Reply to Dm, from my in person philosophy discussion the "majority" defined ethical as follows.

to be ethical you must:

Recycle
Not judge others no matter what they do
not steal
be nice to all people
be for gun control
against drugs
for more social welfare
Not own SUV's
use economy cars

The lines there that start with capitol letters were points the majority of the group thought were of primary importance.

The group consisted of 15 people who attend the college where I take night classes, age range was mostly between 18 and 25 with one 30 something and me at 40. It can get to be pretty strange being the "old guy" in that group http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 10-26-2001).]

That's a very strange definition of being ethical, esp things like be for gun control. It's only being ethical if that's the code of ethics you believe in. An ethical person is someone who lives by a code of ethics, whatever that may be, IMHO.

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/AJ.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

Goddess of Undress
Co-owner of the Evil Petting Zoo and Sorceress of the HADB
OLD COOTS eye candy and Disrobed Division of the ORT
And her sidekick Pink

Personally (apologies if needed) I think that list is whacked!



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Still The Most Humbly Prideful (?) Member Of The Illuminati!

Mark

To be honest I am not totally sure the people involved
really know what ethics are...my problem is, that much like
ART, I may not know the definition, but I know it when I see it http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 10-26-2001).]

Not own SUVs....Hmmmm. LOL, weird, what did they find unethical exactly with SUVs? Something about emissions maybe?

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../KungFuGal.gif http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/wenzek.gif

Actually by the end of the discussion I think they were starting to confuse ethical with politicaly correct to be honest...



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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

<h5>BUT........</h5>

Never fail to realise, that one ethical factor might be totally unacceptable in another.http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif And that ethical factors are seen differently.

Do you base on:

<ul>[*]Outcomes?[/list]
OR

<ul>[*]Actions?[/list]
E.G: What if your actions were lying <font color=yellow>("breaking honesty")</font> in a an 'act' of good to maintain intergrity (outcome) - thus preserving your <font color=yellow>loyalty?</font>

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif - Think - it's a very interesting subject that: philosophy. I'm very glad that you're studying it.

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http://www.gis.net/~yos/lichwah.gif http://www.btinternet.com/~GWah2/mygreetings01.gif http://www.btinternet.com/~GWah2/myname001.gif http://www.btinternet.com/~GWah2/finalarch.gif

Sure did confuse me LOL! Well, to me, ethics is something of a human nature, mainly based on Honesty and Fairness.

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../KungFuGal.gif http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/wenzek.gif

Sure sounds like it! I wonder if they'd think I'm unethical because I let someone open a door for me today.. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Cloudy



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/bestow2.gif
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/cloudy.gif
Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

Well, as long as you offered someone a piece of gum within the next hour of said door opening, you should be safe. If you didn't though, uh oh! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif


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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../KungFuGal.gif http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/wenzek.gif

Offered Gum? Im confused http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif



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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Wah, only a very cruel and mean person would insist on complete and utter honesty at all times. So an ethical person would/should also know when honesty is not "The Best Policy" No one should ever tell a mother during delivery that she looks like she has been possessed.... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif or admit that your brand new baby looks a little like a lizzard http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif or maybe they should put it back for a couple of weeks to cook some more http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif



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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Just joking around Magik. Used the "gum" thing to basically say if she did another person a good favor, then she would be even. Sorry, again, just a silly nonsense joke, not really made to make sense, which it doesn't, which was my point, doh, nevermind. Hey, it's Friday, no work tomorrow, I'm just feeling in a wacky mood! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../KungFuGal.gif http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/wenzek.gif

Believe it or not, I follow a code too - Bushido. Unusual I know, but I started on it when doing Aikido (one of my styles)

Loyalty
Excellence
Refinement

There are others too, but they're not too relevant here

Honesty is one of the great traits I finally accumulated thanks to the sweet Melusine. Before then, I was pleased how deceptive I could be http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif - me know better now http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif



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