--

I want tosay to anyone who is leaving that you should think of all the friends you have made here and how they will feel, You will be missed and I can't believe you wouldn't miss this great place, Please reconsider...http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif

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http://www.mmedia.is/~johannaa/jorath.gif

Yeah, where did all those old-time members get to?

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http://sylents.homestead.com/files/1.gif "Watch your back"

Since when is cloudy leaving??
I only see people retuning...
Mel, Wolfgir, Demus, Sylent, Wah
or is that just me??

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http://www.phpshop.net/images/rikard/rikard2.gif

It's very upsetting to see valued people and close friends like Cloudy and slackerboy feel like they have to leave here (even for a while) because of upsetting opinions posted in the War on Terrorism forum. People DO have a right to post their opinion, though unfortunately some people take this to mean that they can disrespect or brush off other people's opinions in posting their own. People from ALL sides here have been upset by this. We don't have a rule against that, unfortunately, but I wish that people would show the same consideration for other people and their opinions here as they do in real life.

Also, I really wish people shouldn't take those threads so personally. We all have enough stresses in our lives right now to get stressed about something someone else said about your country, viewpoint or whatever. Just remember that people's opinions are just that - opinions! In many cases these are coloured by their own personal life and geographic experiences, which may be different to your own, so don't take it personally if they disagree with you. I have made myself IMMUNE to the many divergent opinions that people post here on the forum, because I have my own and am confident in my own thought processes. Nothing someone else says will get me down - I won't allow that to happen.

Remember, sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 10-22-2001).]

Yeah, I'm just confused.
Been away from the board for a few days and read 250's post saying Cloudy was leaving.

I'm getting a bit fed up with it all to tell you the truth.
People being hurtful too readily, and people being hurt too easily.

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

I totally agree with you Memnoch, what I don't understand though is that people getting upset, because they get ??flamed?? at the "War on terrorism forum", I mean, you can avoid posting there, that was the intention of the extra forum (right?? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/ponder.gif ), so the stress at GD would get down and that not everybody would be confronted with the latest discussions on war. If you're leaving because you don't agree or have an argument with someone at the war forum, well, I got to say, it's your own fault. Just avoid it. GD is the best place to be, so c'mon and join us here http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/angel2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mirac/...sigs/Done5.gif
Lady Menqel, Protector of IW's, smiter of evil

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mirac
- Priest of Helm
- Fellow Table Dancer of the Jerome's Table dancer group
- Spell formulater of the IW peace-keeping force
- Magical advisor of MiLady Lioness
- Thanks to Sazerac for the great sig picture

Well said Mirac.
I just went and read the thread in question, and saw a lot of upset. But as I recall, the War forum was set up so that people who found it difficult to avoid threads that may upset them wouldn't even see the titles.

It's clear really. If you are going to get upset by those threads, don't go in the forum. Or learn not to take everything personally. It's only a discussion, after all.

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

Considering my well -non-exisisting Lurker status, I would say that I returned sooner because wen Ziroc moved the war threads from the GD area, well it was putting the stove outside the cabbin..

I also realised an old saying I have. (sometimes it pays to listen to wise words, trouble is to find them..)

"Don´t ever talk too much about politics with people you like.."
Easy eh? No. Nonethe less, sorry to see thoose people leave, I hope that they will return ater some time..
(Edit add..) Well forgot to tell that I find that if I can avoid the Politic threads I´m much better off actually. I respect your opinions, but sometimes the way to speak it could be well, more organized and thoughtful. Not directed to any one!! Just that while people have the right to say anything, means also that all people have the right to not listen to everything as well... Thats what I´m trying to by staying here in the games and GD area.. Wolves only wants to hunt wabbits anyway, and the only politiccal debate I will talk about now are issues concerning wolves! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif. (end Edit add)

Memnoch, just have to be a real grumpy wolf today.. none to scritch me behind the ears today! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif but words can hurt more to some than the biggest stick and stone mate! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Just know that when you break something, there all always people that will help you heal!

Back to lurking.. but you guys still make it difficult! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif Hehe hmm, active lurking??

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http://wolfgir.najk.net/wolfie.gif
Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away..
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[This message has been edited by WOLFGIR (edited 10-22-2001).]

I don't want to play "devil's advocate" here but I do understand how easy it is to get your feelings hurt. I've seen many people really put alot of time and effort into their posts. We have different degrees of sensitivity. Therefore, I must disagree with some who say that words won't hurt. Its a totally subjective thing. We don't all have that "immunity" although it would be nice to have that ability to let it slide. I'll just speak for myself. When I enter into a discussion and share my opinion, I care about the responses I receive. I check that thread to see what other people think. If someone disagrees with me, then I understand that they have another view point but it matters very much how that subject is approached. The hot topics of religion, politics, war and lately, the tragedy are some very hot topics. I try to stay away from them because I know that I won't like some of the responses I see.

What am I trying to say? Well, I guess I'm trying to empathize with those who need to distance themselves from the forum for awhile. When they are in the proper frame of mind, they can come back and contriubute again. All in all, I believe that you get what you give.



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"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
-Robert McCloskey
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/hs2.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...lil-ribbon.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Token lackwit of HADB
<LI>Sycophant to the Wolf of Azure Hue
<LI>Long lost brother of DragonMage
<LI>Bearer of a work of art created by Sazerac
<LI>Jeg burde blive gennembanket for min flatulens.[/list]

Mirac and Epona, I think you are certainly right in saying that people who know they will be upset by what they read in the War forum should stay away from it (though Mirac, phrasing it as "it's their own fault" is too accusatory to my tastes - maybe you should try and imagine how it feels when you're in a heated discussion about things that mean the world to you) and I also tend to agree that everybody here reacts more strongly or emotionally than they usually do. However, you shouldn't do away with all of the current problems as easy as that. I think the people who left (including me - I am still not decided on whether it's actually worth the bother...) didn't leave only because their poor ovesensitive little nerves couldn't take it anymore, but because they recognise what's been going on on the fourms lately: in the heat of discussions, people just have lost respect for their opponents in an all-consuming fixation on pushing their point. Just look at the majority of the posts here and compare them to those of a few months ago - people have lost respect for eachother!
Hello everybody!!! This is your wakeup call!!! Moiraine, Bilqis, Slackerboy, Nick, Cloudbringer, me... why the hell do you think we got fed up?? Hell, even Sazerac says he's thought about leaving! I hope you feel proud of yourselves for almost losing one of the best moderators ever!!
I certainly see 250's point in his "what is wrong with leaving" thread (if I may paraphrase, he says that IW isn't built on tradition, so we should not try to frantically hold on to our own idea of how the boards ought to be, but instead embrace the changes that came along with all our new members.) He is definitely right in that, and I think almost all of us HAVE done that. Take the clan-roleplaying for example; none of the old members complained about those, even though they certainly changed the atmosphere on the boards (not for the worse, of course, they just changed the kind of topics we all talk about). Look at how incredibly fast new members like Kaz, Dragonmage, Lioness, Seph, Cheetah became accepted, and in fact became a large part of the new IW (I still can't believe how fast Kaz's post count is going up http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif). I think we all did a damn good job at accepting changes and welcoming new members like old friends.
I don't think THAT's the reason for people's discontent at all. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif The reason is - in almost every single discussion, people get hurt. People offend others, and people ON BOTH sides became much more ruthless. Everybody seems to care less about eachother (may I quote Rikard, who doesn't care about anybody leaving...I hope he's the only one who thinks that, because if you first worship Cloudy like some friggin goddess and then don't care if she leaves, that's just bloody hypocritical) and have become a little less caring in general. I don't find it so hard to believe that this kind of atmosphere makes people decide to take a break, and I certainly don't think that it's "their own fault".

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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/mel1.gif
Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

Thanks, Hiram! Brilliant post - you put into words what I tried to http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif



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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/mel1.gif
Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

they are leaving?? damn... they will be missed.

ONE of the reasons I don't go to that forum because too many folks got hurt by it!

Sorry, esp. to Melusine, since you picked me up on a very valid point!
I don't think I put my last post very well, and it may not have come across as I intended (damn incoherent Mondayitis http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif )

Let me try again!
I can understand why people feel the need to take a break. But because the 'hot topics' are now all in one place, could they not take a break from that one forum, rather than leaving IW entirely? I thought that was the point of having it separate, that's all. I don't like to see people I consider to be friends leaving GD, BGII, Books, Polls, because of a disagreement in the war forum. Just the way I see it.

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

[This message has been edited by Epona (edited 10-22-2001).]

I guess I didn't explain myself clearly yet again. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif What I was trying to say is to TRY not to take things personally here. I realize this is not as easy as it sounds, but if you think about it YOU are in control of your emotions. From my perspective, it's all about self-control and discipline. (This is NOT meant as a criticism of anyone.) http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

With the number of posts I've had to read...the number of arguments I've had to cool down...the number of times I've had to bite my tongue and discipline myself not to react angrily to opinions that I see posted on the forum that may differ from my own...the number of times I've had to remind myself that people have a right to have an opinion that differs from my own...the number of times that I've had to make hard decisions that I know will be unpopular with someone...it's the only way I've managed to keep my sanity and still get up from my PC with a smile at the end of the day. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I won't lie to you, the thought of packing it all in and riding off into the sunset has crossed my mind once or twice in the last month or so. I have a very busy, stressful RL job and don't really need all this sh!te during my leisure time. But I do love you all, I love Ironworks and I am DETERMINED to make this place into the place that we all knew, the place where people could live harmoniously and post their opinions and not be pounded into the ground for it.

Please remember, the world won't end tomorrow if the other person doesn't agree with you or posts something you don't like. YOU are in control of how you feel. If you need to take a break, do so by all means. But don't put yourself through hurt and stress when you don't have to. Life's to short to get upset about little things like someone else's opinion. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

You're right Epona... I've done that

Good on ya, mate! I really appreciated that response.


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"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
-Robert McCloskey
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/hs2.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...lil-ribbon.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Token lackwit of HADB
<LI>Sycophant to the Wolf of Azure Hue
<LI>Long lost brother of DragonMage
<LI>Bearer of a work of art created by Sazerac
<LI>Jeg burde blive gennembanket for min flatulens.[/list]

Trying to aswell, and well Memnoch´s and the other Moderators statement of trying to make this place better.. Well I´m only a howl away now anyway so when I feel the time as ready, I will be back in force or well just stay in touch.

Mostly it feels that since we lost the politics debate, we now have the new vs old members here... And since Wah got back here I say that the newbies are in need of some new heroes (oki, a bad joke but I need to use the muscle to move my mouth upwards, my mom at least thinks I´m cute when I do that.. wabbits find it fearocious! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif )..

To this I can only say one thing.

Cycles dudes, you new guys will be old here one day too! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif
Don´t get to aggitated with us oldies since well´, you will be nagging about it later on as well! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif
Cycles, we have talked about things you ae doing now, we feel that, well did that, and well.. If the oldies try, will you newbies try too? A tough decision right? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif Man, I wake up in the middle of the bed this morning instead of falling out http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

And when she is here, a big wolfiehug to Melusinchen! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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http://wolfgir.najk.net/wolfie.gif
Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away..
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

PLEASE don't think that I'm laying the blame back on people for being too sensitive because I'm NOT. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif If other people are being rude, callous or heartless when posting their opinion (some people seem to take pride in being hard-nosed, unfortunately) and are in posting their opinion are disrespecting other people's right to have an opinion) then people are entitled to get upset. In that case email one of us, that's what we're here for. We WON'T abandon you and I would hate to think that anyone felt that way.


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

<h1>HOOOWWWLLL!!!!!</h1>

Man, that felt good, Wolfie! Releases all that nervous energy like you wouldn't believe! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

I told you man!! Just howl!

<font size="+4">HOOOOOOOOWL!!</font>

Man, I´m an "oldie" and proud of it! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif

I´m also a active lurker hehehe! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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http://wolfgir.najk.net/wolfie.gif
Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away..
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

I actually considered leaving for a while, that was at the point when I noticed how many people had actually left, some of which were really nice people who contributed a lot to IW, I hope that Cloudy and Slackerboy will return soon and that the War discussions might cool down a bit, I think that the War discussions are creating negative feelings throughout the entire board, I just hope this damn War will end soon and everything will become, not as they once were, for that will never happen again, but MORE like they once were.

Hiya, Wolfie!!!! ((((hugs)))) and Mel http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/wavey.gif

I appreciate how readily I've been accepted here. I don't think I've ticked anyone off (yet) and I hope to never do so. If I ever do, though, please tell me, because, believe me - it would never be intentional. I love you all too much to be hurtful on purpose. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

My philosophy on 'touchy' subjects has been to read, think about what I want to post, read some more, think some more, read once more and if I think I can still contribute without causing a ruckus, I'll post (as carefully as possible). http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Notice that I 'think' and 'read' many times before posting. This may be part of the problem on the War Forum. People get emotional about what they read, maybe even misread something if they're already upset about something else; or the other person, speaking another language in r/l is having difficulty expressing themselves in English, therefore inadvertantly causing a misunderstanding. Guys, please - read and re-read posts that irritate you to be as sure as you can be that you are taking what is said in the context it was intended. I frequently have to decipher some posts due to language barriers that would ordinarily have ticked me off, but upon re-reading them, I realize my error. I always 'think twice, but act once'. For those of you getting upset, try that...if you read something you find upsetting, take a step back and re-read the whole thread. Ask for clarification in case the person posting just didn't get his/her point across well. Try asking, in a neutral tone: "Now let me see if I understood you. You are saying....." and restate their post in the way you read it. Give the other person the benefit of the doubt to say, "yes, that's how I meant it" or "no, let me rephrase that for you" before determining that you are being insulted.

That being said - I also implore you all to stop with the sarcasm. I've seen quite a bit lately and it serves no purpose but to inflame people. I, myself, was victim of such. But instead of getting upset about it and leaving that forum, and instead of retaliating with same, I (hope) I confronted the person fairly but firmly and expressed that I would not take that kind of bait. I feel I retained my dignity and self-respect and that person did not come back at me again with any sarcasm. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif It doesn't always work, but it's worth it if it does. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

(((hugs to all))) http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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http://home-3.12move.nl/~se021070/dragon2.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif
Alureth...Dragon friend of Breanna, Mage and Advisor in the Court of Lady Lioness

Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Second Historian and Scribe of IW. Mother Hen of IW.
Mage extraordinair, Pin-Up Girl for the OLD-COOTS
Magey-Wagey: performer in the Nekked Dancing Trio of the ORT.

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

*sigh* Don't worry, Mel, and the rest...I'm not leaving. I'm too much of a dumb S.O.B. to leave here. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/rolleyes.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

That's not to say I'm not contemplating a "break" for a bit. I don't know just yet. I probably won't leave GD, but I'm really thinking of giving the "War" forum a very large berth from hereon out, and sticking to the Gaming forums, where I can do what I do best: helping others with their games. I mean, come on, guys, that's what Ironworks has been since the beginning. A GAMING forum, not a political activism forum! If you want political activism, go find a forum dedicated to that!

The problem, BTW, with so many members leaving (and Yorick is also contemplating leaving as well), is that their religious beliefs are under attack by a select handful of people who seem to think that they have the right to disprove the others' beliefs or force them to prove that their beliefs are false. I agree with Mirac's basic point of "If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen", but when one is under attack (and seeming to come out of nowhere), it gets kind of hard.

Mel's point, and mine, and everyone else's all along has been that if people were being treated with respect, and only the points were being criticized rather than the people, there would be no problems. That's the only reason I actually considered "packing it in"...simply because I have said this over and over and over and over again and it's like talking to a brick wall. One begins to think that one is useless.

But I will keep saying it. It bears repeating, that EVERYONE here, regardless of their political leaning, gaming preference, religious creed, nationality, etc., are worthy of RESPECT!

One of these days it may actually catch on.




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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

I'm also staying FAR away from the War forum from now on, it's getting a bit too "hot" in there for my tastes.

good move...
Ziroc may delete that forum in near future....



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http://imagehosting.bidbay.com/image.php3?imgID=505256

HEY! get away from my homepage!!
The Host of Sigs

That makes two of us. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/uhoh3.gif

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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

IMHO, How Can Everyone Fight Over The War? There Is Only On Way To Look At It: Terrible, There Is No Other Way To See It. People Should Help Others To Get Round It, There Are Enough Problems Around Already!http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../ugone2far.gif

Were having A Forum War Over A real War!http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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The Clan HADB Cleric Of Sephiroth + Nutella
http://angelfire.animfactory.com/ani...mer_md_clr.gif

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/No...les/sister.gif BINKY http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/No...les/sister.gif The Founding Member, Cheif Architect AND Official Chanter Of O.R.T

The Order Of Royal Toads

I know, Beaumanoir. It's a sickening irony, isn't it? And we expect NATIONS to get along. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/rolleyes.gif



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz1.gif
Patience, my BUTT...I'm going to KILL something!!!

Bah if ppl paid more attention to all the jokes I've posted in the last months......they'd all be too busy laughing to argue! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Listen to Uncle Vask, he is wise! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../1orglaugh.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../1grlaugh2.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

That's the truth! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../xyxthumbs.gif



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz1.gif
Patience, my BUTT...I'm going to KILL something!!!

Good to see a new Helen back on the board http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/yor.gif http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif

Good to see Knobhead the Pommie hasn't left, either. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif



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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

No one needs to leave, I don't want to lose any good friends I have met here, PLEASE, email me and let me know what I may be able to do to help fix this. If someone in particular or a FEW someone's are the largest cause of hurt feelings, let me know who, I will take care of it. Totally anonymous.

I have seen a bunch of old reg's come back, and have talked to some that said they were going to leave, but don't really know yet. If we need to start warning users, let me know.

I kinda think it's all stress from what had happened on Sept 11th, and now the War, and these Anthrax attacks.. It makes people scared, and when people get scared, they are more defensive (it's an automatic human response).

Don't worry guys. Remember: This forum is what we make of it, and we have SO many awesome members, we just need to remember to be kind, and treat everyone as you would want to be treated.

If you need to take some time away, I understand. But leaving for good isn't going to help (you'll miss friends, and they, you.) I also plan on adding new forums that will move all Clan talk out of Gen con, and a few others.

PS: The new forum software is out of Beta btw, and I'm VERY near ready to upgrade the forum! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif So you can't leave now.. You will miss all the nifty new options Ironworks has to offer!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Oh yeah... and choc says Mew Metter May Moo! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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Ziroc™
Ironworks Webmaster
www.tgeweb.com/ironworks

[This message has been edited by Ziroc (edited 10-23-2001).]

I will. It's a temp forum, and will be deleted soon. It's sad that it has turned into a shouting match. I am about to make a warning post there btw.



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Ziroc™
Ironworks Webmaster
www.tgeweb.com/ironworks

I think it's great that you allow us to discuss these important RL issues in your place Ziroc.
I for one stay out of the area if I start getting heated up about something, then pop back in when I've calmed down. Although I wasn't in favour of a separate area initially, it has helped me to make more measured responses or not respond at all (in fact I haven't posted in there much, but I do read a lot of the threads) - simply because I back out if I feel my hackles rising.

Shame it has turned into a bunfight, I know a lot of people have been upset - on both sides of all the debates that go on in there. I think if people can learn a bit of give and take it will be better. Give some thought to what you are saying, and how others may percieve it to be hurtful or personal. Give some thought to your response and reaction if you feel hurt - perhaps you were already in 'defense' mode and read something in a way it was not meant. Both hurter and hurtee need to take a step back at that point, take a deep breath, and if necessary apologise, explain in a different way, and be non-aggressive.

After all, you wouldn't punch someone in the face if they disagreed in RL, would you?? I hope not.

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

This is the sanest and most useful thing I've seen regarding that mess! YAY! Epona! I've yet to put my thoughts into coherent form. I'm still a little distressed over this and haven't had time to. But THIS is a pretty good description of the basics going on in my mind at the moment.

Cloudy (Dan I replied to your email)

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/bestow2.gif
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/cloudy.gif
Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

Oh no, I wasn't being sane was I?
That's my crazy reputation down the chute then.... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

Oh dear, so sorry! I did just do away with your insanity defense, didn't? oopsie! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../1orglaugh.gif errr.. you're still funny, does that count?! *giggle*

Cloudy

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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/bestow2.gif
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/cloudy.gif
Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."