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Let me speak a little irritation I'm having as I read posts on the current situation. I'm starting to associate pacifist with idealist lately. I keep hearing that we'll be killing babies and innocent citizens. We should just be able to seive out the militants easy as pie and leave the locals untouched. Let me tell you a little cold hard fact. The militants hide in a bunch of innocent citizens on purpose. It makes for indecisive and cautious attacks on them and good propaganda when "innocent" citizens die. A good number of those innocents will become militants in the time it takes to hand them a gun and an attitude. A good number of those innocents will have no problem and probably feel honored to hide their folk hero (Bin Laden) and his troops. Hell, they're buying "Bin Laden" T-shirts faster than they are being made and probably had a big party when the trade center went down! War is war. You can't spend years trying to sort out the bad guys if the population doesn't support you. The WWII bombing of Japan was horrific. It was severe overkill and not our finest hour. The sad fact of the matter is that it was effective. The enemy was severely crippled in every way possible and quickly surrendered. That's the way war is. If you don't hurt the enemy, the'll hurt you, and they won't quit just because you show mercy! They'll take the opportunity to strike again! It's a shame non-combatants have to die in combat. Think of it this way, we've already given in the non-combatant department, we've lost thousands of non-combatants. How high do you want the number to go before taking effective action? These are OUR people dying!!! You want THEM to be safe at the cost of US?! If they want to protect their people, they'll do what they can to avoid this and stop supporting and harboring the terrorist network. They'll quit playing dumb and sniping us when we're not looking. They're counting on our moral code to protect them and keep them going. Hardly an honorable thing. I don't think they'll ever give up Bin Laden, even if they had him right now. Face it, they LIKE him. They BELIEVE in him! They WANT him! They LIKE what he does! They DANCE on the graves of our dead! SO BE IT! It's time to take it to THEM now, instead of waiting for the next bullet in the dark!!!!!
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We are already killing innocents by starvation. 2 million more are on the brink of starvation and no relief-aid can get to them because the Afgan borders are closed, thanks to the military build up. 7000 HUMANS (humans from many countries) already dead, 2 million+ more on the way in return. One can easily figure out why military intelligence is sometimes considered an oxymoron by doing the math.
The pain we have felt lately concerning senseless loss of HUMAN life, is just the tip of the iceberg. |
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We haven't closed any borders. Their neighbors [Iran] have closed their borders of their own volition. Incidentaly, Iran isn't in cooperation with the US whatsoever either. Please don't feel that I am stating any opinion one way or the other on the original post. I wouldn't touch that with at ten foot pole. I do however disagree with the idea that the U.S is responsable for the Taliban's and Russia's starving of Afghanistan. ------------------ "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." -General George Patton (1885-1945) http://www.asnsoup.com/americansig.jpg Member of CLAN HADB |
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Be Realistic and Look at FACTS
first of all An American live is worth no more then the live of any other world citizen Second America got the Taliban to power America got Sadam to power And this to stop the "Red Danger" a danger created by the americans themselfs by not being far to Russia after the WOII Honestly i can see where Osama bin laden is coming from I DO <u>NOT</u> AGREE WITH IT but i think we should look at the underlying reasons before we go confict people Fact is that America is always helping the Jew in Isreal and that can be quite frustrating Second America does not respect the way that the islamic countries live Third Terrorism was thought by the Americans themselfs WHEN WILL YOU LEARN? this way of bombing countries doesn't work it didn;t work in Iraq It didn;t work in Kosovo It won;t work in Afganistan because all you do is hurt the innocent And the real badguys enjoy that as they will hate the americans even more Militairy ain;t always the solution Stop creating you own problems ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif [This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 09-26-2001).] |
If Bin laden put that effort and money of his into helping the population have peace and get an economic footing instead of attacking others through elaborite suicide plans, perhaps starvation wouldn't be as big of an issue. Trouble is, I don't think he cares about the general populace. He's an upper caste Saudi with lots of money. The peasants are expendable and lower than worm s#!t in his book. Believe me, I've been to Saudi and experienced the "freindly" upper caste. Talk about superiority complexes!
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------------------ http://www.asnsoup.com/silvercheetahfinal.jpg Ascended Mistress of Illumination |
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that's the way their sociaty works I know a lot of strange stuff western people do like throwing pigs into far to small cages and feeding them till they can;t even hold their own weight. Making arguments with their Family putting your parents in a nursing home when they get old instead of taking them into your house Different Cultures Accept it ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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Discrimination Edit - Now who is having a superiority complex? you treat the rest of the world as cattle now ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif [This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 09-26-2001).] |
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------------------ http://faceweb-004.facelink.com/edit...72/4711972.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif Kazara Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe Guardian of the Temple of Aerie (specialized in GenCon and BG) |
Honestly i can see where Osama bin laden is coming from
I DO <u>NOT</u> AGREE WITH IT but i think we should look at the underlying reasons before we go confict people Fact is that America is always helping the Jew in Isreal and that can be quite frustrating Second America does not respect the way that the islamic countries live Third Terrorism was thought by the Americans themselfs WHEN WILL YOU LEARN? this way of bombing countries doesn't work it didn;t work in Iraq It didn;t work in Kosovo It won;t work in Afganistan because all you do is hurt the innocent And the real badguys enjoy that as they will hate the americans even more Militairy ain;t always the solution Stop creating you own problems [/B][/QUOTE] YOU Sir, have offended me!!!! The only thing you and I agree on is that we shouldn't have brought those two to power. We should have let nature take it's course and let them slaughter each other and ignored the underdogs that cried for help! It's those very dogs that are biting our hands today! You say you see where Bin Laden is coming from?! Maybe you should join him where he is going then! You know what I see in him? A classic petty dictator that likes being a big fish in a small pond. A murdering power monger trying to make himself out as a savior! By the way, the military action in Kuwait worked just fine. I was there, they tucked their tails and RAN!!! They ran like hell! [This message has been edited by Sir Kenyth (edited 09-26-2001).] |
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How can the life of one human being be worth more than that of another? American lives, Saudi lives, Chinese lives, Russian lives - we're all human beings, we're all people! Please think what you are saying! ------------------ http://www.asnsoup.com/silvercheetahfinal.jpg Ascended Mistress of Illumination |
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Placing differing value on human life based on their nationality is the same mentality that the terrorists use to justify to such evil acts. Looks like you have more in common with your enemy than you know. You arrogant Americans, oops wait, I am one! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/biglaugh.gif [This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-26-2001).] |
well said, G'har and rikard. sir kenyth, you are a twit. (no offence)(ish)
we've all had a some indepth discussions on this topic and i believe that your view has been expressed by others'. you may have been in the military, but you have very little idea about the background of the current situation and about human nature and the causes of conflict. america's attitude to the rest of the world (not the individuals per se,) ie; american interest, that craps on fragile economies in the name of 'free trade and 'free market'. what did the world trade centre and the pentagon stand for? global military and economic landmarks that symbolise a huge and unbalanced stature in the world. the american government desires and has consistently worked towards a situation of 'full spectrum dominance' hardly a situation that the rest of the world feels comfortable with. you can find some in-depth considerations of the violence done by the west in other threads. i suggest you read them. |
I do NOT agree that americans are worth more than others, but I DO agree that americans(And most other people for that matter) are worth more than Osama Bin Laden and his heartless terrorists, a person's worth is determined by their ACTIONS, not their nationality, those who support Osama Bin Laden may or may not be innocent, for many of them have been brainwashed from birth to see the Western World as Evil and Osama Bin Laden as a "heroic freedom fighter", you can't really blame them for supporting him if they've been told stuff like that from birth, can you?
As I see it, there are three ways to get kill/capture Osama Bin Laden: A) Bomb Afghanistan back to the Stone Age, Osama Bin Laden will either be killed by this, the people will hand him over to America to end the bombing or it will clear the way for solution B). B) An attack with small elite units of soldiers who will locate, and then capture or assasinate him and his closes lieutenants. C) Bribe Afghanistan, offer them money, removal of sanctions and trade embargos and possibly and alliance in exchange for them handing over Osama Bin Laden. ------------------ Worshipper of Tiax. Wielder of the ancient Lawyer spells. Member of the HADB clan. http://www.dabros.net/images/tcampbell/hadb5.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif Ally of the Fluffy Queen and the Dreaded Red Fluffy General of the highest class and Leader of the Legal Department and Jumprope Compound in the IW Peacekeeping Force. I've also got a pretty long sig. |
G'kar, i'm becoming very fond of you. you naughty american, you!
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Calmed down a *bit*
I must first say I'm deeply hurt by your words as I an a Chinese living in the Netherlands And I think my live is worth as much as the live of every other individual in the world God created us all equal as the bothe Bible as the C'ran (Koran) say If you say you as the USA are the greater good you do exactly the same as Bin Laden does but only with another group of people Narrowmindedness leads to great wars It happend in 1914 when Franz Ferdinand was killed It happend in 1933 when Hitler came to power It happend in 1917 when Lenin took over control please think about what you say ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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A will lead to Bin Laden being a Martyr B will lead to Bin Laden Being a Martyr C will lead to Bin Laden being a martyr But also to a better life for the Afgani who will stop having reasons to hate the western world an option D will be even better if the Muslim high priests would decite Bin Laden shopuld be handed over thus giving a clear message "THIS IS NOT THE WAY THE ISLAM WAS MEANT TO BE READ" ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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Rikard! I completely agree with ya on this issue. very well said
Sir Kenyth, calm down. An american life does not worth more than anyone else. If that offend you, then (Edit: eliminated 2 words, 7 letters) "All life are created equal" says whom? |
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now just admid i'm the maturest and we can be good buddies http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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I am the MATREZT!!!! I reapt: <font size = '10'>I aM Da mATReZt!!!!</font> http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/blitz1.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/blitz1.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/blitz1.gif |
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exeeding pride is one hella source of foolishness
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So all we need to do is finding fearies Well i think we could send the SAS, FBI, GIGN or even the new KGB (dunno the official name) to find them and will peace will be obvious http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif On a Serious note There's a small change the Priests will do it though the change of Bin Laden being caught even by them is real small They have had a meeting about this before and i hope the Priests will see that the Islam was not meant this way and that the Jihad is a bad thing ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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Get well soon. ------------------ http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...Site/2/17e.jpg |
Ahhh, the posts are coming in faster than I respond. I will clarify what may have been misunderstood. I don't mean the rest of the world is worthless. I mean that I'm not going to be all love and understanding to someone who attacks and kills my people. As a matter of fact, anyone associated with him is now suspect! If you don't want the gun pointed your way, then don't shoot first! By the way, which Limey called me a twit? http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif
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Take of that White Cap and think about the worth of a human live When people commit crimes they deserve to be punished and THEY not others at are associated with them should be the ones to suffer If you think a country is respondsible of what the goverment does then you say that if the Serbs would have crashed into the WTC it would have been justified And these kinda stuff ARE NEVER justified ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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------------------ http://www.asnsoup.com/silvercheetahfinal.jpg Ascended Mistress of Illumination |
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the 4 most elemental forms of Manipulations are 1) Leaving stuff out 2) play with the time frame 3) Exagerate the stuff that pleads for you 4) looking from one side ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-26-2001).] |
Naah, the word discrimination has just been misunderstood. A discriminating buyer is one who chooses with knowledge. It's the factors used in discriminating that count. Do I discriminate against people that are known to hate us? Yes. Do I discriminate against someone for being Muslim? No. Like I said before, would you trade your child for the lives of three others? Would you be able to? In the equation that all lives are equal in your eyes, the three lives are worth more than the one. We all discriminate in one fashion or another, For one reason or another, in everything we do. It's not a racial thing. It's knowing who your enemy is and not giving them a second chance to kill us.
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And I am the enemy when i want to know what drives these people to do such stuff instead of forcing them to be exactly like me? ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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them guys are being so severely herrased by their own supperiors that no enemy can frighten them anymore They are more hardy then the CIA and FBI whether they have the tactical knowlegde i doubt ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
Okay I sick of seeing people posting that the Taliban won't give Bin Laden, they offered to surrender him like the middle of last week but only if they can see the evidence what Bush has linking it to him but guess what Bush said, that right NO!.
I also sick of people saying that everyone in the Afgainstan is the Taliban, aid workers and reporters and the Nothern Anilace(?) all say that the majority of the normal people do not, I repeat done not hate westers, even Americans. The soldiers of the Taliban are just planning on defending their country from attack as you just would for yours. ------------------ http://www.webspawner.com/users/shad...kicker/sig.jpg Hodge-podge Sliver Cleric of the ALSB You don't need pants for the victory dance becuase I am better then Weasels!! |
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