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I got an argument with my English teacher (who i personally don;t trust as IMO My English is about as good as hers and that's not a good sign)
about the word Public it that word plural or ehm not-plural in other words is it the public Don't or the Public doesn't???? ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
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Without looking it up, my gut reaction is "doesn't." "the public don't" just doesn't sound right. |
http://dictionary.cambridge.org
Check it out. It might be one of thoose nasty words that breaks alot of rules.. But I think it should be doesn´t since you refer to alot of people as a unite.. But well, I better leave this to someone who knows for certain. The link above is one I got from Sir Tainly! May the rust never grew to heavy on his armour! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/wolfie.gif Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits... Wolfgirs lair once-upon-a-paper |
So it's the Public Doesn't
I'll show this to my english teacher and demand her to get one her knees and kiss my shoes http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...l_laughter.gif ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
It's the public don't. Your teacher is right I'm afraid. When you talk about a group of people, you speak in singular.
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I have to disagree SA. 'Public' is one of those ugly exceptions to the rule. It is 'the public doesn't'.
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I have to disagree. English is a weird hodgepodge of various languages. Proper usage of certain words like in this example is a matter of much debate and varying usage, even among scholars of the English language. I wager that if you asked scholars of the English language about this example, you would get different answers. So, in such cases, just go with whatever sounds/feels more correct. |
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No this cannot be! I was always the best in English class http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/rolleyes.gif grrrr.... I hate being wrong http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif
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------------------ http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...sSite/2/4a.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c) Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan. Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force Mage extraordinair. Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy Hopeless Romantic *sigh* "Allright! We'll call it a draw." |
<font color="white">I will settle this right now.
I am going to call two different English teachers and ask them. I will report, soon.</font> ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprinc...ges/larry2.gif Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position) Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...ysSite/1/1.jpg Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa --------------------- Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu. |
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------------------ http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...sSite/2/4a.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c) Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan. Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force Mage extraordinair. Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy Hopeless Romantic *sigh* "Allright! We'll call it a draw." |
<font color="white">Public is widley recognized as a singular word.
Thus you get: The public opinion... The public bathroom... The public does not... Does not = doesn't </font> ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprinc...ges/larry2.gif Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position) Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...ysSite/1/1.jpg Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa --------------------- Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu. |
Well, I'm an English major too (if you think what I mean you think by that statement) and as far as I'm concerned, (but then I'm lacksadasical) you can use both, and people frequently do.
However, to be strictly correct, it should be 'the public doesn't' as public is a collective noun, and thus singular. (As is the forum, for example, or the crowd, etc etc. .) ------------------ http://www.asnsoup.com/silvercheetahfinal.jpg Ascended Mistress of Illumination |
I'll weigh in on the side of the public doesn't.
Unless you're rapping. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
Official Grammarian here. Since I am an English teacher and have taught grammar for over 10 years, I figure I better jump in.
The problem isn't with "doesn't" and "don't" the problem (as accurately reported earlier) is with "the public." Subject-Verb agreement rules state that the subject must agree with the verb. Thus the verb form of "to do" must agree with the subject "public." You would use doesn't with a singular (for example: Ryan doesn't agree with his English teacher). You would use don't with a plural (for example: The members of the forum don't agree). Public falls into one of those strange categories called "collective nouns." Collective nouns can be either singular or plural (examples include: audience, team, group, committee, public, . . .). For purposes of subject-verb agreement, collective nouns can be considered either plural or singular -- depending on how the writer thinks of the sentence . Consider the following phrase: 1)The public don't know the real election issues. vs. 2)The public doesn't vote on this until next month. The first sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a collection of individuals -- a situation where each individual within the group happens to fall into fall into a collective group. The second sentence assumes that you are discussing the public as a single group, taking a group action. I figure this was a bit of overkill, but there you have it. In short, it depends on the context in which "public" is used. ------------------ http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/bronze.gif Most Subtle Official Straightman of the Laughing Hyenas -- Grammarian Brigade. "The only medicine for suffering, crime, and all the other woes of mankind, is wisdom." -- Thomas Huxley |
Edited, due to previous post...that was not there when I posted...
Why the hell can I not delete my own post? ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprinc...ges/larry2.gif Member of the OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position) Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...ysSite/1/1.jpg Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa --------------------- Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu. [This message has been edited by Larry_OHF (edited 09-26-2001).] |
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And thank you for further expanding my knowledge of the English language Father Bronze! However, I still hold with using "doesn't" all the time for "public" because, in my neck of the woods, saying "the public don't" makes you sound like a back-woods, uneducated red-neck. (No offense to any educated red-necks at the forum today http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif!) ------------------ http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...sSite/2/4a.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c) Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan. Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force Mage extraordinair. Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy Hopeless Romantic *sigh* "Allright! We'll call it a draw." [This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-26-2001).] |
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At last we agree on something, Yorick. It's strange, I get the feeling about you that we have much in common in our world views, but it seems that we are more often at loggerheads on the forum. |
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okay this is a small piece of the Dutch School Exam of 1997 English a story about interactive Shopping And i quote "Retailers will re-learn an old lesson: consumers prefer shops that do not treat them like cattle. If ____10____ helps wipe out those who ignore that lesson it will be a dream come true." 10 [] -- A -- interactivity -- B -- nostalgia -- C -- Politocs -- D -- The shopping public I answered D and A appeares the answer, I'm ok with that but my teacher no claims "the shopping public helps" is impossible and she did that with a "haha i know stuff better then you do" kinda smile so i love to prove her wrong ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
Well, "public" is ONE large group. You are refering to the group, not the individuals within.
I mean, you do also say "an atom doesn't", even though the atom has several particels within ------------------ We call him Bobby Corwen http://www.finalfantasy.nu/forum/minichoco.gif |
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I don't know if it was a typo, but you don't want "The" capitalized in response D. I found the question very confusing. Is there more? or is that it? I have a difficult time figuring out who is going to be wiped out by whom. I find it hard to believe that "interactivity" is going to wipe someone out. Likewise, I find it just as unbelievable that the shopping public will wipe people out (imagining little shoppers running around with machine guns and such http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif). I feel sorry for you if this is the type of question you have to deal with on a regular basis. Where's the real grammar? ------------------ http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/bronze.gif Most Subtle Official Straightman of the Laughing Hyenas -- Grammarian Brigade. "The only medicine for suffering, crime, and all the other woes of mankind, is wisdom." -- Thomas Huxley |
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I'll give you a summery Interactive shopping is going to be very populair anytime soon as the public wants to see and feel the products normal supermarkets and mall will survive as they provide better service "Those" are all retailers and the real grammer? well we get questions like this to test both our vocabulary as out grammer ------------------ http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
Let the lymie in.
~swaggers in~ the public DON'T sorry - who said our language was consitent was dreaming http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif ------------------ Lord Raptor's Site http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/chickenL.gif Ironworks Dark General BG2 Tavern Keeper King of Pointlessness |
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Here's an example of another ridiculous question: "The opposite of Heaven is:___________________". Now, most people would answer "Hell", naturally. Not so...the makers of the SAT have deemed that the opposite of Heaven is "Earth". Well, that's arguable, but is it any more or less correct? Why should someone be penalized because of an opinion which is NOT a point of logic, if that is indeed what the test is purporting to measure? GRRRR....I think you can tell how I feel about standardized tests! My sympathies are with you, Rikard. ------------------ http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz1.gif I know who you are...I saw what you did! |
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And why is that do you think? ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
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------------------ http://www.ranchoweb.com/images/bg2guy/bitchingcopy.gif http://www.ranchoweb.com/images/bg2guy/fljotsdale.gif [This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-27-2001).] |
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So I'm sorry to say that your teacher had the right answer, for the wrong reasons though. You can't eliminate response D simply by checking the subject-verb agreement. Instead, you need to look at the context of the sentence as it fits into the paragraph. The previous sentence explains that interactive shopping is going to have an effect. The next sentence then goes on to explain what that effect is. ------------------ http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/bronze.gif Most Subtle Official Straightman of the Laughing Hyenas -- Grammarian Brigade. "The only medicine for suffering, crime, and all the other woes of mankind, is wisdom." -- Thomas Huxley |
I don't care the answer is A
i have acccepted that BUT I do not agree that D is impossible because i think it is a possible answer purely based upon grammar ------------------ Behold he who stands before you http://www.phpshop.net/images/rikard/rikard2.gif Almighty (shared) Leader of the OHF Proud member of the Ancients Club The one True Necromancer/Blade of the Laughing Hyena's Last of the Ancient race known as the Red Fluffies Summoner of Bunnies "You can Run, You can Hide, But you can never do both" http://potgrond.netfirms.com/Eyes.jpg I'm Watching you... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/hero.gif |
You know what I like about this after all is said and done?
We are ALL correct! From the more limited PoV, those who said "doesn't" were right in the context in which it was presented. From a more expanded PoV, even "don't" was correct. AND with the whole context revealed, the correct solution was able to be discerned. I like it when we can all be "right"! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif ------------------ http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/02/...sSite/2/4a.jpg http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c) Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan. Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force Honored to be a member of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever! Mage extraordinair. Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy Hopeless Romantic *sigh* "Allright! We'll call it a draw." |
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In the case of this sentence, yes, public would be grammatically correct, but (and I'm sure you've heard this one before) it's not the "best" answer. The "best" answer would be A. ------------------ http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/bronze.gif Most Subtle Official Straightman of the Laughing Hyenas -- Grammarian Brigade. "The only medicine for suffering, crime, and all the other woes of mankind, is wisdom." -- Thomas Huxley |
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