A question:

Whats your favorite breed of dog?

A couple of rules first:

1) This inculdes dogs and only dogs.

2)Mixed breeds are alowwed for instance if somone says "I like the Blue Heeler/Border Collie mix" that is perfectly leagal

3) NO CATS. If you dont have somthing to say about dogs dont say anything.

4) NO WOLFS. Though they are cool they are NOT dogs.

My Favorite would be a German Shepard, Labs are cool too. BloodHounds are very cool also, but anoyying "Hoooowwwwlll" hehehe, anooying.

Post away!

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The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way ....

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Currently in service for the Red Wizards

That is a hard decision for me to make since all of the dogs I have owned or had contact with were quality dogs in obedience, attitude, etc.

I'll list three since I can't chose any of of these as being any better than the other. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

1)Alaskan Malamut
2)German Shephard
3)Golden Retriever

P.S. Don't be suprised if this thread gets moved over the the User Created Polls Forum. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I love dogs. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

Well, I've been around many, many different breeds of dogs, and while I like them all to a certain degree, I would have to say that I do have my favorites:

1. Doberman Pincer
2. Golden Retriever
3. Leonberger
4. Rottweiller
5. Great Dane

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Always listen to your heart, for it will never lead you astray.
Good guys CAN get the girl, if they only have a little patience!

Definately the Pit-bull Terrier!

I know this breed has gotten a bad wrap from the media, but before you begin to put it down, PLEASE hear what I have to say!

IT IS BAD OWNERS THAT MAKE BAD DOGS!!!!!!

The dog was never bred to attack humans, but to fight other dogs. A dog which showed aggression towards a human was considered bad breeding. The dogs had to be handled by many people in the course of a fight. (NO I HAVE NEVER FOUGHT DOGS!!!) Simply done my homework into the breed I love.

I have owned several in my lifetime, and I will go to bat for them to say that treated lovingly and intelligently, these are some of the best family dogs out there! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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I will definitely agree with you on that. I've known several Pit-Bulls, and not a single one was ever anything like the media has played them up to be. Honestly, I've seen Black Labs be more agressive than the Pit Bull. It's all in how the owner treats the dog and trains it (or doens't train it).

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Always listen to your heart, for it will never lead you astray.
Good guys CAN get the girl, if they only have a little patience!

The last couple of dogs my folks have had have been black lab's and they have been pretty cool. Basenji and Malmute's are wicked too. And some of those bigger terriers are pretty cool.

Yes!!! Well said!
The love a pet needs is as important as leaving food out for it!!!!
There must be a healthy atmosphere or else strange
things will happen!




[This message has been edited by Djinn Raffo (edited 09-08-2001).]

Golden Retreiver
Jack Russel terrior
Labs

Goldens are best by far though

I've known two pit bulls in my lifetime, both of them obedience trained and both of them seemingly good and mild dogs, owned by good people who readily admitted that they are unpredictable.
One approached me and sat down next to me and gave me a look that I read as "I can tear you to pieces and I'd enjoy every minute of it"
Just as I was cautiously stepping away, her owner (my brother-in-law) warned me that she had an instinctive mean streak and that I needed to keep my distance as long as I was in her territory (his back yard).
The second one I encountered while visiting a friend in his home. It lunged at my son's face for no obvious reason and was stopped a fraction of an inch short of sinking her teeth into him by her owner who had her on a chain and later admitted that as good a dog as she was, she was truly unpredictable, which is why he kept her on a chain whenever he had company.
Not knocking the breed you love, because they are faithful pets to their owners, but if you don't own them, you have reason to be wary of them!



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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

On an added note...I raised a Black Lab/Cocker Spaniel mix from a four week old pup to an adult. He was a great and friendly dog but if he thought he, I, or my son was being threatened in any way, he could look as vicious as any Pit when making his returned threats!
He looked like a mini lab with spaniel hair and was no taller than my knee but my Malamut had taught him how to show ALL his teeth to make a serious point! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../1grlaugh2.gif

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-08-2001).]

Moni, I won't argue with you on that either. Ok, I know it might sound like I'm playing both sides of the fence, but hear me out.

As important as the training, loving and atmosphere the dog is given is to the quality of the dog, so is it's heritage. The reason that Pit Bulls got such a bad rap was the way that they were being bred. So many people were using them as guard dogs, and as pit fighters, that the agressive behavior was bred into them over generations. Now, a new focus by the breeders has finally started to come, and the agressiveness is slowly being bred out of them.

So, by giving them a loving home, and training them appropriately, you can help to eliminate a lot of the behavior that makes people wary of them, but you also have to do some research on the heritage of the dog. Don't allow breeders of aggressive dogs to make the situation worse. Find another breeder that is working to breed out the aggressiveness. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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Always listen to your heart, for it will never lead you astray.
Good guys CAN get the girl, if they only have a little patience!

[This message has been edited by Zeeke75 (edited 09-08-2001).]

I won't deny that they are good dogs to their owners but I would never own one for fear of having someone else hurt by it.
I was thinking my pup was part Pit Bull and I thought it was cool because he looked like a mix with a German Shephard, which I know are good (but potentially aggressive) dogs as well, but as it turns out, he is just some total mutt mix of a Rhodesian Ridgeback, to the point where he has a bunch of extra skin around his neck because he is missing the "ridge" and he also has an extra toe. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif
An extremely intelligent and well-behaved dog, even he has the potential for territorial related violence. We got him neutered this week but have yet to see if it has mellowed him at all in his disdain for our family members who infrequently may go out into our yard through our house. He has not had a lot of contact with Grandpa and does not take it well that grandpa is afraid of him. Grandpa has not been back out there to visit with his own dogs since the pup growled at him for being afraid. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

Personally, I think that all dogs have the potential to be agressive, given the right circumstances and breeding.

Your dog sounds like a really neat mix of breeds, though. All of the ones that you listed are very intelligent, so you must have one really smart dog. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Sorry to hear that Grandpa isn't getting along with him. That can be fixed, but it will definitely take some time. From reading some of your other posts, I definitely get the impression you know how to handle your pets, but if you need/want advice for training your dogs, let me know....I've been training them for a few years now. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Always listen to your heart, for it will never lead you astray.
Good guys CAN get the girl, if they only have a little patience!

I understand your fear, but it seems that the owners in these cases were shown to be responsible. One warned you about the nature of their dog, the other was obviously there and in control enough to keep your son from a bite. These sound like dogs who were not socialized, probably for the reason of protection, which they are very good for if you don't antagonize the dog into being just plain mean. This should not affect you from getting one though, as a puppy turns into the dog that you have made it.

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Thank you very much! That is very kind of you!
He is a great pup and I don't know if Grandpa wants to go back out any more because he moves so slow and the pup is very keen on tuning in to his emotions.
Maybe now that he is neutered it will be easier to make friends of the two of them but Grandpa would still need us in his company when he goes out simply becuase he is so slow and loses his balance easily...if the pup were to stand up on his legs for attention like he does mine, Grandpa would go down.

Liliara,
Yes, these people were aware of their pets potential but in spite of obedience training, they retained that violent and unpredictable streak. That is what frightens me...having a dog that may for no reason attack a friend or family member...if the dog is not constantly exposed to those people the same way it is it's owner, I don't believe it can be trusted not to rely on instinct. I would not want to expose my friends, my family, or my dog to having to deal with it.
Just my opinion. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif



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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

If you want your pup, and later dog, to get along with everyone, then I would suggest the same for this breed as any other... socialize it with everyone. Take it to the park, in your car, around the neighborhood. Let it become aquainted with everyone! This will not however, take away the dogs natural instinct to know intentions. (It's a wonderful thing. We as humans trust many. A dog, only those who are truthful in their intentions.) This seems more so in this breed. TRUST IT!!!

By the way, I believe it is a cocker spaniel, I may be wrong in this, I'll have the stats tomarrow for you, that has the highest rate of bites. The pit on the other hand is even used as a therapy dog because a wheelchair running over it's tail will not cause it to bite out of defense. (the pit doesn't respond to pain as defensively as most breeds)

This also means that a child in the family is much less apt to be bitten by a pit because of a pulled ear.

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I believe you hit the nail on the head, Liliara. You MUST socialize your dog properly (both out in public AND at home) if you want to come as close as possible to ensuring that your dog won't be agressive to others. Also, I've found that YOUR attitude towards other people affect how your dog (pack-mate) sees them. If you go up to a friend and hug them, the dog knows that this person is accepted. If you go to the other side of the street when you see someone while walking your dog, they WILL pick up on that.

Therefore, understanding the nature of ANY dog - pack oriented, territorial, wary of those outside of the pack and, usually, willing to die, if necessary, to protect it's pack members - you can properly train ANY dog to be 99% non-agressive.

But therein lies the major point - you must understand any animal before you make it a pet. You MUST care for it properly, socialize it properly and, yes, show it respect. You must take in its inherent nature (i.e. that of Pit Bulls or German Shepherds) before you get one or you may not raise it properly.

I love all animals. My favorite dog would have to be the Samoyed. I've been bitten by a Spitz with a bad owner and am still a bit leery of them (my bad), but IMHO - better safe than sorry. I DO like Pit Bulls and Mastiffs and Newfoundlands, too. When I lived in Tennessee, one of my neighbors had a Pit Bull female. Sweetest thing! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif She also had a litter that my neighbor distributed around the neighborhood http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Every ONE of those little guys grew up sweet and happy dogs! Because they were all properly obedience trained and properly socialized. Not one person who adopted one of the puppies ever treated it like anything other than a member of the family. I don't think it's right that some people buy a pet just because it's cute. Impulse buys like that lead to negleted and abused animals too frequently.

OK - gotta take my Mom's dog to the vet now! (We have all adopted strays or brought home rescues from the pound. She has one Red Chow/Yellow Lab mix - so he looks like a Red Lab http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif. The one we are taking to the vet today is a black Spitz/mix. Thanks goodness for the "mix" for my peace of mind. Oh! and mine is a 30 pound Cocker Spaniel/Blue Tick mix. She just looks like a minature Blue Tick except for her face. It has a kind of Spaniel look to it.) http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

hmmmm
1) german shepard
2) dashund
3) scottish terrier




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Great Danes Are The Best Dogs Ever, They're So Stupid, But At The Same Time, Really Intelligant. My Great Dane, She Sits On The Chair, But Only Her Bum Goes Down, And Her Front Two Legs Are On The Floor, Just Like A Human Sits, Whearas, She Also Sticks Her Nose In The Fire Till It Gets Burned... Tut Tut


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I Am... The Bad Dude

"IT IS BAD OWNERS THAT MAKE BAD DOGS!!!!!!" That is true, but some breeds have a greater chance of becoming "bad dogs", but let's get back to the topic of this thread, my favorite breeds are:

1) Collie

2) Collie

3) Collie

4) Golden Retriever

I find Collies to be the most perfect dogs, others may disagree but that is my opinion.

Very true. Every dog owner should socialize there dog while owners of large breeds should very seriously consider obedience training. We have trained our German Shepard and have found it extremely helpful. Our favorite commands are heel, sit, stay, attack, kill, maim, dismember, disembowle, lobotomize...... Oops....did I share too much? Hehe...I....um....er.....I'll be going now. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

BTW my favorite bread is the German Shepard. Ours is a real sweetheart and a pleaser. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif


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I would like to know at what age do dogs develop their social attitudes because we brought our pup in as a 3-month old stray and in spite of the fact that he likes Rex and Rex's dad, he does not like men in general. I have to be in Grandpa's company when he goes outside, holding one of his arms to help him support himself. The pup sees me being close with him and the pup should know (if he is keen to my emotions) that I care very much for this man, but Grandpa's fear of the pup made the pup wary of him.
We have taken other male friends out into the back yard and the pup has lowered himself, his hair on end, his teeth showing, and growled. This is not a result of any anti-social behaviour that we have instilled in him!
One of his back feet has very deep scars in it...he was abandoned twice before we got him, once by his original owner and once by the kid who initially took him in but was not allowed to have him and whose mother made him take him back to the tracks where he had found the pup. When this kid approached our fence to tell us about his one-day ownership of him, the pup approached the fence very cautiously, sniffed at him, growled, backed off and barked fiercely at the boy. He hates him and it has nothing to do with the way we have raised him since he has been in our care...we had only had him for two days when this happened.

Here is a pic of our dogs. Hercules is the pup I am talking about. Zip and Code are sisters LOL!
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

http://members.aol.com/punkinhaid/images/thedogs.jpg


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-08-2001).]

Beagles are so cute!!!

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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif

I'm not a very doggie person. I love the independace of cats too much, but:

Basenji. Beautiful, beautiful, elegant little dog. Fell in love with it when I saw Crufts Dog Show this year on TV. (I think it was a Basenji...)

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12 months ago I would have agreed with you Memnoch. But our neighbors bought a Beagle at that time. That's when I found out that Beagles are loud, full of energy, like to run, and like to dig. Our neighbor's Beagle was constantly running down the street with her owners hot on her heels, barely able to hold the explicatives back. That was actaully entertaining. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/smiles/485.gif But when that little devil dug up and chewed through our dogs electric fence I was irritated. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../angryfire.gif Fortuantely it was any easy fix.



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Well right now i have an Akita... Japanese dog who weight more than me. But he's my dad type of dog.
A sharpie is my dog of choice. slow, laid back, sorta mimics his owner http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Dachhunds! Definitely!

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Order of the Holy Flame
Member of Clan HADB
Laughing Hyena

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I've raised and trained MANY dogs (several cats, a rabbit, a rat and - believe it or not - a fish). As far as dogs go, their training begins almost from birth and AT LEAST from their weaning. Since you got your pup at three months old and, not only a stray, but one that had been mistreated and abandoned before, he's already developed emotional issues. He's got fear of abandonment to deal with, he's got a great deal of willfullness (I'd imagine) from being independent and on his own so much and he developed more of the "pack-hunting" instinct than a puppy that was raised in one, loving home would.

The way he reacted to the boy who had taken him in and then abandoned him (in the dog's eyes anyway) is understandable. He didn't trust the child anymore. All the pup knows is "one day the boy was nice, the next he told me to get lost!"

And the way he's reacting to your Grandfather has nothing to do with anything you have done wrong. He CAN be trained out of it. With time, he will come to accept your Grandpa. Mostly, your Grandpa needs to show NO FEAR. I know it's an old saying, but they CAN "smell" fear. If a dog senses someone is afraid, they see that person as a potential threat (when a dog is afraid of another dog, it usually attacks rather than runs). If a dog runs from another dog, it is chased. Either way, fear means fight. He needs to also be slowly brought closer and closer to your Grandpa, but on a restraint or even with a "soft muzzle". If Grandpa is frail, your dog may sense his weakness. The old and weak are often driven out to die in pack society.

The way he reacts to other men is probably due to two things: the first, men have been "bad" to him (and animals do know the difference between the sexes). The second seems to be a tendency for one sex of dog to bond with opposite sex humans. If your pup likes women, he will be protective of them. If he gets along okay with your husband, then you have properly shown him who is "alpha-male" and as long as he knows who is boss (but who also loves him), he will continue to respect that male.

As far as your puppy "knowing how you feel about someone else"...hmm - as much as I feel that our pets are our family and that we should all give them more credit than most do, there are still limits to his understanding of emotion only. They understand tone-of-voice and body language, scents and volume of noise. I don't know if they ALL pick up on "emotion". Fear is an emotion, true, but when you are afraid, you give off a strong scent.

I hope this helps you. Do not be alarmed! I doubt that your pup will hold on to these attitudes once he sees you aren't going to abandon him. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif I've had similar problems with my own rescues and they have all worked out just fine. Also, you could try to gradually get your Grandpa to give him his favorite treat. First have him sit across the room and gently toss a treat. Eventually (over a few visits), have him see if your pup will take it from him. Talk soothing to him and pet him the whole while (the dog, not your Grandpa http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif - unless you think Grandpa needs the gentle encouraging, too). http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

And, sorry for getting off the original topic. Just trying to help make the world a better place. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif (Can't we all just get along?)

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Yeah I agree with you there. He definitely did not like that kid anymore and he is a deeply sensitive little dog. Seeing him lost across the street, I could see the emotion in his eyes, the confusion, the lonliness. That is the only reason I went and got him, because of the depth of feeling his eyes showed.

I agree with this too. he knows he is loved and safe here and i have learned from past experiences with dogs about showing them fear and how they may or may not react depending on how "wild" they are.



I agree with you here too...the kid that owned him abandoning him and the scars on his hind foot have me thinking that his owner prior to the kid was more than likely a man.

Maybe I give animals more credit than most people but I do believe they can sense our emotions on all levels. I even consider most wilder animals to even be a bit telepathic if not in a manner that has them knowing what we are literally thinking, then at least one in which they know what we are feeling or what our intentions toward them are. I have handled a lot of wild birds for example that were stressed until I let them know I was there to help them escape (my cats). A few of them were even content to remain sitting in my hand after I opened it up to allow them their freedom once I got them outside...one (a cactus wren) even came back to my bird feeder with his mate everyday and would set his food down in front of me (if I was outside) and then "nod" at me before taking it and leaving with her...sort of a "thank you" as I understood it to be.
I also used to hand-feed the wild squirrels that lived under the shed in my backyard. A couple of the females were content to sit down right next to me and stay there for a while, but as soon as I even thought of petting them or touching them, they would get up and move away, beyond arms reach and they'd keep a close eye on me before settling back down to just chill out in my yard with me. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif



Your post was quite a bit of help to me! I will be sure to follow your advise with grandpa (even the not petting grandpa part http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/biglaugh.gif ) and I thank you for taking all the time you did to talk to me about it! We have had him for four months now so he is very well adjusted to me and Rex. It is just grandpa misses his own dogs and he is so frail that I have feared the pup reacting violently to grandpa's fear of him, as has grandpa.

Again, Thank you! Your help is much appreciated!

I'll end my post with Rex's vote for a favorite breed of canine:
"If I knew what Hercules was I'd say his breed LOL but since we can't figure him out I'll say Old English Bulldog" http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!


[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-08-2001).]

I think that those Canadian Huskies are beautiful dogs!
In Mexicali, Mex., those are one of the few dogs that do not die from the severe heat.

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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth
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Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

I love my poodle http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I own a Maltese and it rates pretty high on my list of cute things http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

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Resident Lurker Guy

I love dogs. I currently own a Great Pyrenees who is wonderful, but my soon-to-be-ex-husband will get "custody" of her --- she goes with the house as it has a huge fenced in yard.

But my favorite breed of dog is, by far, the Great Dane. Can't top them for personality, temperament or looks.

That being said, I just got myself 2 kittens to start my new life with me -- a calico & a tabby. What a couple of sweeties! heh.
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/smiles/cat.gif

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Having abandoned my
search for truth, I am
now looking for a good
fantasy.

For R³ in thanks:
Sometimes I think I
understand everything,
then I regain consciousness.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier.....a pedigree is a truly awesome mutt... the mutts nuts in fact.

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Aaahh.... Fur Cough.

http://i10.yimg.com/10/5bc25258/g/d125f571.jpg


Black Cocker Spaniels, preferably named Molly with superpowers! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Mark

(If the pic is too big for load time, I'll get rid of it.)


[This message has been edited by skywalker (edited 09-09-2001).]

Another one of my favorites is the Greyhound. I'd love to adopt all those lovely ex-racers. They're such couch potatoes! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

I also like Great Danes, very cool dogs. So dignified, so Solemn, very cool dogs. But they dont beat the German Shepard. There is just somthing about GS that is striking to me.

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So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

The ranger looked at the place out side of the elven town near the river, he looked near the rocks, then they showed the way ....

Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas
Currently in service for the Red Wizards

golden retrievers. Luv em to death.

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All your base are belong to us! How Are you gentlemen?

The Spaminyte Emperor
Fish?
***********************
Welcome to your doom!!!
***********************
Official villain/demon of IW!

I like huskies and semoyeds (sp?). Collies I've had several of, are VERY gentle dogs. Jack Russell Terriers are cute, but they are full of SOOO much energy! Aiyeeee! Always thought Welsh Corgis were cuties, never had one. But I guess, I'd have to say my favorite dog would just be a light brown/tan hound dog, believe it or not http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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Had many Old English Sheepdogs growing up...very lovable but boy were they dumb http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no.../drooling1.gif

Then had a Norweigan Elkhound for about 6 years, but as soon as I moved out of my parents house to attend Uni. they gave her away http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/mad111.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/mad111.gif

I still have not forgiven my parents for that...they didn't even tell me....I came home one weekend and she wasn't there and I of course thought the worse, but then they told me they gave her away....I am not sure wish was worse for me to deal with!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!