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Psychiatry 24x7
For anyone suffering from clinical depression and to back up the things I was being attacked for saying (by a Psychiatrist nonetheless) about how adjusting our diets to include iron and B vitamins can make the effects of PMS less intense. Specifically, read the second to the last paragraph, last sentence. The whole article backs up what I was saying and should be a great help to anyone suffers it or who has been mislead about just how curable depression is. There are links to symptoms, treatment which includes Phychotherapy, wherein the patient can learn skills to cope with their depression and perhaps develop a more positive outlook on life. It also lists drugs also used and thier side effects. This part of the article also backs up what I saying about how some people end up on drugs for the rest of their life. I told you I wasn't talking out my a$$. My thanks to Rex for sending me this link last night after reading what was posted here at Ironworks. I really do care, Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif [This message has been edited by Moni (edited 06-21-2001).] |
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<font color=aqua>Moni--
Thank you for that link! I tried to keep up with the 'discussion' http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif on the PMS thread but got lost somewhere.....One thing I would like to say about this issue is that the cause of my wife's depression was the 8th paragraph last sentence (don't want to get to personal with her issues). Like I said in the PMS thread, my wife has 'dealt' with her depression by a change in diet and by taking vitamins. These do work (I know not for everyone) but why wouldn't people at least try this approach and save themselves the life-long crutch of meds! ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
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My statements were taken totally out of context and twisted to implysome totally different meaning. If you go back and read the third page of that thread, you will see where I was able to defend what I said from start to finish. Thank you. To add, Why yes, I could be more melodramatic about it but why?! I Really Do Care, Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif [This message has been edited by Moni (edited 06-21-2001).] |
Moridin,
Thank you so much! You are right, if a person can save themselves a lifelong crutch of being on medications, what better solution is there? I know that a simple change in diet may not be the answer for everyone but I can think of none easier (and less expensive) myself and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting in both that thread and this one! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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You weren't "attacked"! Kiwidoc refuted your statements with her evidence. If refuting someones claims is an attack then I should be banned for this, and I should be banned on just about every message board on the planet! This thread, is irrelevent. This post is irrelevent. |
Dear Moni,
Apparently I have missed that thread, but to back you up, I was watching the news just last night and there was information from doctors on there about how changing one's diet can cure many of the symptoms of Incontinence (uncontrollable bladder functions). This tends to be a problem with women more than men, unless men have had prostate problems. As far as prostate goes, it has also been shown that a diet high in tomatoes or tomato products, along with saw palmetto supplements, can significantly reduce prostate gland dysfunctions, along with prostate cancer. My stepfather has had prostate cancer for 5 years. He has received no cancer treatment, with full knowledge from his doctor, and has used the diet above during that time. The cancer is in full remission. Granted, it was caught in the very early stages. He is 78 years old right now, and expects to live to a much older age. Diet CAN help in many cases. Thanks for sharing this. http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif |
ShadowStrider,
This thread backs up what I was stating and I would thank you not to dispute it any further or continue posting here if you think it is so irrelevant. Click on the link and read the information for yourself. I am not going to fight with you about this either, its moronic to try and take someone's attempt to honestly give people helpful advice and make it into something ugly. I Really Do Care, Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif [This message has been edited by Moni (edited 06-21-2001).] |
I cannot find the thread in question (PMS), was it deleted?
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif |
Sazerac,
Thank you for that added information! The Thread has not been deleted. It is titled PMS Tongue in Cheek of Course and is near the bottom of the front page. *HUGS* Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif ------------------ http://www.paulbunyan.net/mnssc/bili.gif Having abandoned my search for Truth, I am now looking for a good fantasy. (Yes, I AM at work now ~ hehe) |
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there is your target. |
Bilqis,
I was repeating what Moridin said and agreeing with it. I don't see you posting anything in response to his saying it to begin with and getting on his case for it! Do your medications have anything to do with depression? If not, your post was totally unnecssary and unfounded toward the content of this thread. ShadowStrider, My posts were attacked and I defended them with fact. I Really Do Care Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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You may be trying to 'defend' Kiwidoc here, but why don't you let her do it herself!! Moni is not <font color=dodgerblue>insulting</font> Kiwidoc. She is <font color=dodgerblue>defending</font> her own position! Do you have anything to add to this thread other than slanderous remarks? If not, then I suggest you find somewhere else to post! ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
Here you go ShadowStrider:
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If you read my words for what they are and in context with the rest of what I say, and in response to what was said to me, you might understand just how carefully my words were chosen. My very first statement in this thread was If I may point this out: With a proper diet and a check on hormone levels, women don't have to suffer as seriously as some do. It is not necessary for women to suffer this in extremes. women don't have to suffer as seriously as some do. It is not necessary for women to suffer this in extremes in extremes...that does not imply that women do not have to suffer at all. The fact that I don't suffer often or severly does not imply that I think all women can live with the same pleasure I do in not having to suffer, merely that as I stated, they don't have to suffer as seriously as some do. I repeat it is not necessary for women to suffer in extremes. That looks fairly clear to me if you read it for what it is and not for what you would want it to imply. I do feel for women who can't (or won't try to) control what their bodies subject them to I did clarify that my sister is one who choses not to...I seriously doubt that she is the only person in the world that doesn't. It is not like I don't have a valid example of that statement being truth. I also stated that some women CAN'T or did you not see that? My honestly helpful solution in lessening the effects have been backed up by Moridin...I don't see you beating his words into the ground for stating the same truth that I did! Now, I just don't see where you can sit and coddle others over things that can be helped (like depression) with proper treatment. You're a professional aren't you? Kiwidoc, I can appreciate that your profession requires people to remain mentally unstable but honestly, if there are no extenuating circumstances (i.e. painful or terminal medical conditions), is it really necessary for people to hold on to all the bad stuff that made them cry to begin with and carry it with them throughout their lives as a reason to remain miserable? This was a mistake made on my part that I will readily admit in that in re-reading posts, I thought it was you and not Reeka who had made a statement " Same thing with depression, some people act like it is your fault." and " You were right to point out that it is serious." My apologies for that misunderstanding but how come you think I would be attacking your profession when I clearly stated I appreciate the job you do unless you didn't want to see that?! There are variables in how people allow themselves to react to emotional situations Its the truth. If you are a studied Psychologist, you would know this. People choose to react on their emotions in many different ways...it is one of the aspects of being able to classify who is paranoid, who is schizophrenic, who is depressed, etc. I understand Psychiatry and Psychology are two different fields but one is closely so related to the other that you should need to understand Psychology before you practice Psychiatry. This statement was also made in defense of what I had tried to say in an effort to help to begin with. If I wanted to attack your profession, I would say that Psychiatry is not even recognized as a medical science. Its truth, but I didn't say it did I? Chemical medications aren't the answer. They may alleviate the symptoms and make everything seem better but they can cause adverse reactions and don't allow a brain to produce the right chemicals naturally. A person with positive effects from the drugs more than likely, will be taking them for the rest of their life. Are you saying that all people on medications for depression should stay on medications all their life and live in a drug induced fantasy world when there are methods to mental health that can make the use of drugs unnecessary? It takes time and practice not to look at things from a negative point of view. I believe enough in people to think that if I can do it, anyone can. Another truth in the first statement. Ask anyone who has applied the will to change and has succeeded. Key words in my second sentence are believe and think...nowhere were the words I know for a fact mentioned. For that to have been implied was wishful thinking on your part, not mine. If someone is going to or has to keep themselves in an environment where there is constant negativity I can see how they could never be cured. Where is this an attack on you? It is fact...in a depressive environment a depressed person can hardly expect to be happy and remain so. With the exception of people who have been conditioned to taking meds for the rest of their lives, I don't think anyone is out of reach of making life better. It takes a personal commitment. People won't fix you for you, you have to want to be fixed Again, a statement of truth....again I ask...where is this an attack on you or your profession? If the steps toward better mental health are going to a Psychiatrist, than all the more power to you for helping them...but how many people that you treat are sentenced to see you and how many come by choice? Those that choose to are making an effort. There is nothing wrong with that is there? And in the end, is it you that heals people or do you help them to understand themselves better so that they can heal themselves? Do you go into their brains and change the chemical production? Do you make a change in their lifestyle? Their diet? You can only suggest these things if you think they are going to make a difference...it is up to your patients to do it for themselves. A psych ward is a pretty far cry from the outside ward where people who can pull themselves together really live. I did not say that everyone could be cured did I? This was made in a response to Bilqis who mentioned the severity of people in psych wards and had nothing to do with you personally. But do please, re-read the last line there: I did not say that everyone could be cured did I? I would beg you to take a step back and see how wrong you have me. I get really tired of having to repeat myself when people can't see that I am not attacking them but defending my views be they from experience or fact. I am sorry you took this all so personally, I'll repeat before I leave, I really do care. Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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Laughable.
Where to begin? Let's start here: Quote:
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I am defending kiwidoc because she is asleep about now. Moni is defending her position by insulting another, read the first paragraph. I am not "slandering" Moni, I am saying she should NOT say kiwidoc attacked her, when, in fact, she did not. I am addig to this thread, I am helping to prevent a one person from insulting another. |
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Spur the charge good sir! Lead me into the front of this battle ;P |
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Let me relate a story of mine....I have been seeing a therapist for 7 months now. When I went to my first therapist, they interviewed me for <font color=dodgerblue>15 minutes</font> and then suggested I go on anti-depressants! The second one didn't even get that far! After <font color=dodgerblue>5 minutes</font> his suggestion was anti-depressants (he went so far as to interrupt me while I was relating why I was there). Finally I found a therapist that was actually interested in treating the cause and not merely trying to cover it up so I could function! I am NOT attacking the profession and I do know that each case is unique, however I do see a growing trend of trying to fix everything with medication first and foremost and not even trying anything else! What is working for me finally, is exercise! It has the same affects as anti-depressant medication and guess what....it is free, I am getting healthier, and I don't have to remember to take a pill everyday! ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
Moni, if you like I will personally disect and breakdown EVERY post in the PMS thread in which Kiwidoc and yourself verbally sparred. Not once did she attack you, and I am very willing to disect that thread.
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The PMS thread turned into quite the debate. I agree with Shadowstrider, you were not being attacked, Kiwidoc only refuted your statements with some of her own. She also stated that if you had not meant them to sound the way they did, then perhaps to think of how you phrase things in the future. That is not an attack. My point was very relevent to this thread in that there are times when medication is necessary to deal with chemical imbalances ~ WHICH DEPRESSION CAN BE! I know because I am on Wellbutrin and likely will be on it the rest of my life because of my family history on BOTH sides of chronic depression. This despite my change in diet, increased exercise, good attitude, study and therapy. I accept that I will need to take it because I feel SO MUCH BETTER on it and am actually able to function. I am finally feeling 'normal' -- without crippling anxiety, immobilizing depression, memory loss, etc. So I know what I'm speaking about from a personal point of view. It is NOT something I reveal easily to people BECAUSE of the stigma and the attitude you purported to have on the PMS thread, and that is unfortunately still so prevelent - that somehow if people only would buck up, change their attitude or circumstances or diet or something else that they maybe could control.. then they'd get better without the need for meds. Time to stop perpetuating that belief, and allow compassion and understanding to reign. I agree with you that those things you mentioned are worth trying, but they won't work for everyone. I am not flaming you Moni.. I respect your opinion,I understand your opinion, I HEAR your opinion. I just don't happen to AGREE with your opinion. And let's leave it at that shall we? Thank you. ------------------ http://www.paulbunyan.net/mnssc/bili.gif Having abandoned my search for Truth, I am now looking for a good fantasy. (Yes, I AM at work now ~ hehe) |
ShadowStrider,
Scroll up...I included every word in the reply of mine to Kiwidoc including quoting her and backed up everything I was being attacked for saying. <H3>I like kiwidoc!</H3> The fact of the matter remains though that the things I said were twisted to imply something totally different than what was actually said. The above post by Bilqis is another fine example of such twisting one's words to mean something else at work if you don't get the concept of people having to defend themselves against serious misunderstandings that people take it upon themselves to reply to when they, in fact, imply that you are saying something else altogether. I Really Do Care Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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Another fine, overblown post. Is it so hard for you to admit that kiwidoc NEVER attacked you? She did say you were wrong and give facts of which she has knowledge of to prove it. Is that somehow attacking YOU?!? I think you need to realise that a statement made TOWARDS you is not a statement ABOUT you. |
Bilqis,
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My posts were attacked by stating that I had implied this or that! It is the truth and all I did here was attempt to back myself and offer help to people on this board who do suffer from depression who got confused by all the back and forth debating between me and kiwidoc yesterday over my statements being refuted and me defending them...right down to our last posts where I was attacked for saying certain things that I clarified as fact and truth. I should not have to sit here and repeat myself over and over again regarding the fact that <H3>I know that not all people are alike or will respond in the same way to different approaches toward healing</H3> I believe I even include in my first post here that the site lists different medications and their side effects! I Really Do Care Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
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Go click on the link and read them Telling me that I implied this or that is an attack and if you would (and I repeat myself again hahaha) go read my reply to her and you can see for yourself where I backed myself up...with truth...with fact. Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
I hope I am not inflaming matters any further, but I have to ask all of you to PLEASE stay civil and not let the heat of the arguement lead you to saying things that you will regret.
I myself have a pretty strong opinion on this subject, as I have enough experience with it to know what works and doesn't work for me, but I will refrain from adding to this discussion anymore, as it is obvious that there is little left that will add something constructive to this thread. Moni and Kiwidoc especially seem to have pretty opposite opinions on this matter, can't you just leave it at that? If you *do* insist on further discussion, please keep it civil and objective, don't see personal attacks where there aren't any! (Moni I have to say I can't see a single post in the PMS thread where Kiwidoc attacks you personally http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif) I apologise if I am being patronising or something, but I'd really hate to see this thread (further) disintegrate the relations between board members http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Thanks!! PS Just wanted to say that I think you are all great people http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/LLkiss.gif, and since our community is grown so large, there will always be people with whom you disagree. This is good, because it only makes discussions more interesting (for example Fljotsdale's and Yorick's debates http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif) but it will only stay fun if you realise that it DOESN'T matter if other people disagree with you, and that you can't always win people over to your side http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif ------------------ Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, & Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/mel1.gif Your voice is ambrosia [This message has been edited by Melusine (edited 06-21-2001).] |
Originally stated by Kiwidoc
--------------------------------- I am very, very sad to say that this is how life is for tens of thousands of people who dont get the help they need because of the stigma of mental illness. Currently medication is the ONLY thing that has been shown to help these people. They genuinely cannot help themsleves. I truly wish we had better treatment, be we do save lives with what we have. Severe Depression is a fatal disorder - it kills people. --------------------------------- Please read the following Antidepressant medications are the most popular treatment for unipolar depression in the United States, although there may be safer alternatives that are equally or more effective. This article reviews a wide range of well-controlled studies comparing psychological and pharmacological treatments for depression. The evidence suggests that the psychological interventions, particularly cognitive–behavioral therapy, are at least as effective as medication in the treatment of depression,<font color=aqua> even if severe </font>. These conclusions hold for both vegetative and social adjustment symptoms, especially when patient-rated measures are used and long-term follow-up is considered. Some aspirational guidelines for the treatment of depression are proposed. If you would like to read this entire study, please click on the link http://www.apa.org/journals/anton.html This is not an attack, this is a rebuttal! ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. [This message has been edited by Moridin (edited 06-21-2001).] |
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------------------ http://www.paulbunyan.net/mnssc/bili.gif Having abandoned my search for Truth, I am now looking for a good fantasy. (Yes, I AM at work now ~ hehe) |
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It was said that I personally stated things that implied this or that...does putting it that way imply that I was not under attack for the help I tried to be to women who suffer from PMS or people who suffer from depression? That is quite an elementary point of view by someone who obviously has more respect for Kiwidoc as a person than they do me...I don't have a problem with that, but lets not twist the truth into being something pretty for one and ugly for another when it is ugly all over. All arguments against valid help for both situations are, in my opinion ugly. I am too intelligent to further debate your opinion with you. Moni ------------------ http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprincess/images/ltp4.gif |
I have read both posts in their entirety, and have come to this conclusion:
Moni and Kiwidoc are perfectly capable of resolving this issue. IMO, it seemed to be resolved in the PMS thread. They are in the middle of a heated discussion, and as a mod, I have no problems with that. If abusive or foul language were being employed by either party, I would step in. That is not the case here. With that, I request that everyone else (including Shadowstrider) back off. You are further inflaming and escalating a situation that does not need to be escalated. Shadowstrider, I appreciate your loyalty to Kiwidoc, but she will offer her rebuttal when she comes back online. She does not need you to "defend" her, as she has shown herself to be an intelligent, resourceful, and highly capable member of our online community. I hope this can be resolved relatively calmly, rationally, and peacefully without resorting to us having to lock down the thread. Please do not escalate this situation further. http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif |
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