|
I am having a problem! In the English language we have 'human being', 'man', and 'woman'. Throughout most of its history we have used the word 'man' to mean both 'human being' and 'adult male', but times are changing and we are starting to become more politically correct in our distinction (i.e. chairman to chairperson, postman to mail carrier). I am curious of two things
1) What are the words for 'human being', 'male or man', and 'female or woman' in your language (or for people like Cloudy who speak a second language what is it in the second or third language you speak)? 2) Do you use the masculine (i.e. man) as we do. Both as a gender neutral term and for only men? If you do, is it becoming a topic of debate and change in your country/language? Thank you for your help! ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than open it and remove all doubt! |
Well I know in French, if you are talking about a group of 1 man and 10 women you would use the masculine forms of words when describing them. (for non French speakers nouns inc people are either masculine or feminine and cause agrement in adjectives and verb endings). Moiraine will be able to explain this better.
------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
In french we do. In the same words or expressions than english.
|
As Sir Tainly said, in French, the word meaning 'man' is the same as the word meaning 'human being'. This is not really a subject of debate - what is more so is the name of some professions, that have only male forms (for example, a woman would be 'le Président', but not 'la Présidente' !).
------------------ http://fc1ddq.free.fr/stan2.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/images/forum/icons/ninja1.gif The world is my oyster ! And now I have the knives to open it ... [This message has been edited by Moiraine (edited 05-09-2001).] |
Just bumping so those of you that don't read any thread that you need an IQ of 50 or more can read this!
------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than open it and remove all doubt! |
Yeah, in Hungarian, the word for "adult male" is the same word as for "human being" but there is also another official word for "adult male" which is used more often now. The other word is rather old and not used as often in the past.
|
Geweldig nu ga ik ook gewoon in het Nederlands schrijven als je een vertaling wil moet je bij melusine zijn maar dat weet je niet want dit kun je niet lezen http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif
hoedan ook "Human Being" is Mens of Menselijk wezen als je het letterlijk vertaalt "Man" is man dus dat is lekker mannelijk "woman" is vrouw masculin is mannelijk en dat word alleen gebruikt bij mannen en ben je er wijzer uit gekomen? ik betwijvel het tenzeerste Alright In German Human Being = Mensch Man = Man Woman = Frau Masculain= Männlich not to sure about that ------------------ http://www.phpshop.net/images/rikard/rikard2.gif The Githyanki Necromancer - High Magician of the Holy Flame |
BTW while you people are at it could you count till ten in your own country and write it down?
(BTW no english, dutch, german, french, chinese I already know that) ------------------ http://www.phpshop.net/images/rikard/rikard2.gif The Githyanki Necromancer - High Magician of the Holy Flame |
Same in Swedish, we are starting with adding -person instead of -man in the end too.
Man kan (Man =man ok, simple?) ie you can, one can So we also have the man-ish thing here in Sweden. ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/name.gif WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES |
As Rikard correctly points out, in Dutch and German, we have different words for "man" as in mankind and "man" as in masculine human.
Dutch: 'human being' or 'mankind' translates as (de) 'mens' 'man' and 'men' translates as 'man' and 'mannen' Yes yes, we may be a small country, but we are very emancipated http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif German: '(a) human being' = 'ein Mensch', 'mankind' = 'der Mensch' or 'Menschheit' man/men = der Mann, die Männer BTW a rough translation of Rikard's ramble: Great now I'm going to write this in Dutch, if you need a translation, ask Melusine but you don't know that as you can't read this http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif Anyway human being is 'mens' or 'menselijk wezen' in a more literal translation (note from Mel: which BTW is often not the best way to translate- literally I mean http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif) man is 'man' so that is easy woman is 'vrouw' masculine is 'mannelijk', only used for males (note from Mel: DOH http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif) and have you been enlightened now? I severely doubt it. Note from Mel: what cheek, eh! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif ------------------ Melusine, Archbabe of the OHF and the LH http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/mel1.gif Your voice is ambrosia |
Great now I'm going to write this in Dutch, if you need a translation, ask Melusine but you don't know that as you can't read this http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif
Anyway human being is 'mens' or 'menselijk wezen' in a more literal translation (note from Mel: which BTW is often not the best way to translate- literally I mean http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif) man is 'man' so that is easy woman is 'vrouw' masculine is 'mannelijk', only used for males (note from Mel: DOH http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif) and have you been enlightened now? I severely doubt it. Note from Mel: what cheek, eh! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif _________________________________ great... Wunderbar ------------------ http://www.phpshop.net/images/rikard/rikard2.gif The Githyanki Necromancer - High Magician of the Holy Flame |
Ok, I have to be alittle more thouruough! hehe
OK Human being= människa Man= man Woman= kvinna I alsoo forgot that we now also in sometimes add different endings like they do in german, like chairman, if that person is a woman it would be chairwoman. This seems to be the best way to deal with it. I IMHO think this. To just use person is so genderless and so.. booring =) I think that both sexes should be able to be proud of their sex and not be questioned about it. Use person if you call for someone unknown to you, that is great. personalcontact though use the right ending. If people read in their own values of a person due to woman or man it is their own shortcomming that is seen not anything else. OK, I wont go babbling here Moridin ! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif hehe.. 2. Well as you might have noticed we have something of a debate and usually you can get away with the masculine term or a neutral term. ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/name.gif WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES |
The Germans seem to use the word for adult male (Mann) for human pretty much the same way as you would in old english.
------------------ - Cayle |
o.k. I'm curious about how other languages treat a very old, emancipated profession Doctors? In English the title gives no indication of gender, in German I've only ever heard it used with males, do other languages have masc and fem words for doctor. If I remember rightly thius words is similar in a lot of European languages.
------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
Good question Sir Tainly ! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
In French we theorically have the word 'docteur' for a man and 'doctoresse' for a woman, but usually the word 'doctor' serves for both. Besides, 'docteur' means both a medecine doctor, and a person who has graduated to a doctorate (for example, my father is a 'docteur ès sciences'). You can use 'doctoresse' for a woman in the former case (medecine) but not the latter (diploma). Thus we have 'Madame le Docteur', 'Madame le Juge', ... ------------------ http://fc1ddq.free.fr/stan2.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/images/forum/icons/ninja1.gif The world is my oyster ! And now I have the knives to open it ... |
Quote:
We use doctor (doktor) for both, as well with professor too. Seems that some jobtitles are now considered to be genderless so to say.. ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/name.gif WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES |
Thanks Moiraine, Wolfie, thats pretty much what I thought, think its interesting though in English though that a lot of profession are without gender,
Lawyer Teacher Surgeon Secretary Librarian Optician etc. Not so many are like Poiliceman v. Policewoman, and normally these are not the proper titles, so the above should be Police Constable / Police Officer ------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
Quote:
As you probably know, in England, surgeons are not addressed as Dr but as Mr or Miss. Even when a female surgeon marries she reatains her maiden name and the title Miss.With the exception of one of the Queen Mother's orthopaedic surgeons Mr William Muirhead-Allwood who underwent a sex change and re-emerged as Miss Sarah Muirhead-Allwood. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif ------------------ http://www.wheatsheaf.freeserve.co.uk/roastspurs.gif Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win! Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas Heading for Cardiff |
Quote:
Oh well such is life. Just a little gripe. It's interesting that the difference between MAN and woMAN (both containing the historically used name of the species) is a wo. Anyone know what the wo came from or means? Nothing to do with womb is it? WOMBMAN????? Same with MALE and feMALE. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! [This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 05-10-2001).] |
Quote:
------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
So basically you are saying that we girlies actually are men with a little something more ! Damn this Freud man trying to have us thinking the opposite ... http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif
I am both a man and a woman - can you say such ? http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif I am a WOW!-man !!! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/noncgi/smiles/485.gif ------------------ http://fc1ddq.free.fr/stan2.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/images/forum/icons/ninja1.gif The world is my oyster ! And now I have the knives to open it ... |
Quote:
------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
Actually, Yorick, I just mad a little etymological research - it seems that 'woman' doesn't come from 'womb' but from an Old English word 'wifmann', mann meaning mankind and wiff meaning female (this word ultimately gave 'wife').
------------------ http://fc1ddq.free.fr/stan2.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/images/forum/icons/ninja1.gif The world is my oyster ! And now I have the knives to open it ... |
Quote:
Maybe thats true, in which case what did the wiff mean as opposed to wiffmann being shortened to wiff. Why was it added in the first place? How many other guys call/called their wives Wiff? I did. Wiffy, Wiff. Seems the language unwittingly did a full circle in my case ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! [This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 05-10-2001).] |
Quote:
When I studied english we had some papers on this subject. Alot of doing with the sefaring around scandinavia and also the english islands. Alot of words were borrowed from each other. There is an old saga called just the seafarer fromaround eh 900 ac something and it´s originated from england and I could understand it without problems because more than half the words sounded like alot of the words used today in many scandinavian languages. I can have alook and see if I can dig out some of my notes about it if anyone is interested (or if my now partying werewolf hasn´t gotten to them first.) ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/name.gif WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES |
Wolfie, just look at the Days of the week in English, some of them are borrowed from the scandinavians and named after their Norse gods
Wednesday = Wodan Thursday = Thor Friday = Freya (sp?) ------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
Quote:
Can you explain why that is? Is it just customary...or is there some sort of reason for not referring to surgeons as "Dr."? Seems to me that is a little bizarre as surgeons are simply specialized doctors. I'm curious... http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/confused.gif Thanks! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif ------------------ http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/MON18.gif Now where did I leave that doughnut?! |
Quote:
Moon day Tue's day (Celtic God of War I believe) Woden's day (Norse King God Odin's day) Thor's day (Norse God of Thunder) Freya's day (Norse Goddess of Love and Beauty I believe) Saturn' day (King of the Titan's - Zeus' father) What gets me about the months of the year is they made perfect sense: OCTober (eight) SEPTember (seventh) NOVember (ninth) and DECember (tenth) until some idiot added July (Julius Caeser) and August (Augustus Caeser) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR!!!! Hello! ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
Quote:
------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
Quote:
Lundi = Monday = Moon day (Moon = Lune) Mardi = Tuesday = Mars day Mercredi = Wednesday = Mercury day Jeudi = Thursday = Jupiter day Vendredi = Friday = Venus day Samedi = Saturday = Saturn day Dimanche = Sunday = ??? (I don't know for this one ...) ------------------ http://fc1ddq.free.fr/stan2.gif http://www.tgeweb.com/images/forum/icons/ninja1.gif The world is my oyster ! And now I have the knives to open it ... |
Quote:
We have similiar once.. Måndag Tisdag onsdag (odens dag) Torsdag (Tors dag, the thundergod and killer of the Fenris wolf) Fredag (could also be Freys dag, good of harvest and something like that..) Lördag (saturday ((don´t know the meaning) Söndag.. The Months are from greek/roman gods. We have more like stol, ship/skepp and so on. Might get your mind rumbling about the tower of babylon eh? hehehe... ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/name.gif WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES |
Quote:
------------------ http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif http://website.lineone.net/~swhite101/sigfile/st.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger |
Quote:
They became proud to be distinguished from surgeons and became proud of the title 'Mr' seeing it as a badge of honour. To this day they can get very shirty if you call them Dr. This convention applies in Britain and Ireland, and to a lesser extent in New Zealand and Australia. [/b][/QUOTE] ------------------ http://www.wheatsheaf.freeserve.co.uk/roastspurs.gif Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win! Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas Heading for Cardiff [This message has been edited by Donut (edited 05-10-2001).] |
Thanks Donut! Good info. It is said that you learn something new every day. Well...I'm done with my learning for today. Had no idea!
It's very interesting to me to see how customs vary from country to country. Especially so between GB and the US as we were originally colonized by Brits. For instance, many barber shops in the US have those red/white poles outside of their shops, but I bet you that not many people understand the significance of them. I think if you called a doctor "Mr." here, he/she would get shitty with you for not calling them "Dr.". ------------------ http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/MON18.gif Now where did I leave that doughnut?! |
Great stuff!
Quote:
In Old (or Olde http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif) English mann or monn was used for a human being. Wif for a female and waep or carl for a male. In combined forms, mann dropped the second n to form wifwan and waepman/carlman. The combined word wifman evolved into woman, while wif narrowed in meaning (from female) to wife. With the transfromation of wif to the narrower meaning, the waep- and carl- were dropped and man became a term for a male. This lead to the confusion between mann and man and eventually lead to man being used to for a human being and a male human being. ------------------ http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than open it and remove all doubt! |
Quote:
------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
Wow, great topic this has turned out to be!
Wolfie, I'm terribly impressed that you read the Seafarer (Hey Yorick, sounds familiar http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif)!! You are very "snottor on mode" (wise of mind) http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/hihi.gif I read it too, but then again, I'm a student of English... http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif BTW Yorick, I think Tuesday comes from Tyr, a Norse/Germanic war god. Wolfie, yes, if you know Norse/Swedish you can understand a lot of Old English, can't you? Did you know that even a sentence such as "they ate their eggs" (I've said it before in a different thread) is entirely derived from Old Norse? http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif ------------------ Melusine, Archbabe of the OHF and the LH http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/mel1.gif Your voice is ambrosia |
Quote:
|
Quote:
[This message has been edited by Vaskez (edited 05-10-2001).] |
Quote:
Monday = Hétfõ - which literally translated means "week-head", ie. start of the week. The word for week = "hét" which is also the word for 7, hehe. Logical. Tuesday = Kedd - no idea where that comes from Wednesday = Szerda -" Thursday = Csütörtök - " Friday = Péntek - " Saturday = Szombat - " Sunday = Vasárnap - "vasár" is an old word for "vásár" which means market. And "nap" means "day". So literally translated - "Market-day" as the village markets used to be held on Sundays. As for counting to ten: egy kettõ három négy õt hat hét nyolc kilenc tíz Happy now? http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved