|
I dunno if you all have notest
But America has chosen Bush jr to be their president And i dunno if you have notest this But he's a complete moron Somehow he thinks it's needed to send Spyplanes to China And when one of them crashes to a chinese plane and thus killing the chinees pilot He doesn't seem to know he has actually murdered someone Again A couple of years ago Russia send spyplanes to America America took them out of the air and disabled the planes sending the parts back in small boxes to moskow But if China does this America will try to start the WWIII Any opinions on this one?? ------------------ http://content.communities.msn.co.uk...&ID_Message=66 All Hail the Seventh house Sorcerer Master Magician of Necromancy Prince Rikard T'Aranaxz of Natri'x Clanmaster and Mental Father of the OHF Ramanish of Neathan'Calith High Priest and son of the Eternal Phoenix Shadowlord of the Silver Shield Baron of Yusliks Duke of Gerdran Duke of Tralixz Lord and General of the Army of the West AND!!! Laughing Hyena!!! |
250 i know you are here
And i know you have an opinion about this ------------------ http://content.communities.msn.co.uk...&ID_Message=66 All Hail the Seventh house Sorcerer Master Magician of Necromancy Prince Rikard T'Aranaxz of Natri'x Clanmaster and Mental Father of the OHF Ramanish of Neathan'Calith High Priest and son of the Eternal Phoenix Shadowlord of the Silver Shield Baron of Yusliks Duke of Gerdran Duke of Tralixz Lord and General of the Army of the West AND!!! Laughing Hyena!!! |
I really dont know what to say. to say a president is a moron is like a street talk rather for the sake of amusement than any importance.
what kind opinion you want to hear? I mean, i dont quite understand the post. if it is about Bush as a moron, then it is no importance to me. if it is about Chinese-American relation, then i might post something |
About the chinees American relationship
And the Deep intrust between those 2 countries Is it justified? BTW You Nice Link in your sig. ------------------ http://content.communities.msn.co.uk...&ID_Message=66 All Hail the Seventh house Sorcerer Master Magician of Necromancy Prince Rikard T'Aranaxz of Natri'x Clanmaster and Mental Father of the OHF Ramanish of Neathan'Calith High Priest and son of the Eternal Phoenix Shadowlord of the Silver Shield Baron of Yusliks Duke of Gerdran Duke of Tralixz Lord and General of the Army of the West AND!!! Laughing Hyena!!! |
Rikard,
Not to get too political but I believe, for most Americans, the primary concern is for the US Servicemen currently being held. Both the Chinese pilot (I had not heard he had been killed) and the US crew involved in this "incident" are professionals used to taking calculated risks and well aware of the consequences should something go wrong. That being said, it is understandable that there would be tension and anxiety, not to mention a strain in relations. Were the positions reversed, I am sure the feelings would be the same in China. I would prefer not to get into an idealogical debate. We must remember that there is, in most cases, a significant difference between governments and the *P*E*O*P*L*E* they represent. I hope this situation can be resolved without anyone else being hurt. By the way, in my opinion, you are right about Bush. As 250 said, Bush's intelligence, or lack thereof, is not an issue at this point. Fortunately, both sides have career diplomats who will, hopefully, be able to clean this mess up soon. ------------------ http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...t1lg_opt60.gif - for cut rate prices call 976-BRIS-FOR-LESS {Next time I send some damned fool, I'll go myself...} |
well said idiotrogue!!
they both willing to take calculated risks, then the ones dead died of his own choice, nothing to be excited about. I personally seen so much or so little of america, and american people. I think the "intrust" from both sides are mis-led. After all, american people are people while chinese people are people. they are so many good people in america while they are so many in china. it is just simply two sides of the coin, and both governments tend to display the bad sides historically for the sake of "national gains" should there comes a day when both people of china and people of america understand each other, talk to each other. then both will be benefited |
I never view the actions of any government to be representative of all the people of a country. I would hate anyone to think that everything Tony Blair did was 100% supported by everyone in Britain, so therefore I don't assume that of any other country. - and Rikard, I agree with you about Bush. I hope this situation is resolved peacefully but I wonder if Bush isn't 'spoiling for a fight' by sending spyplanes in the first place - he does not have the most peaceful agenda. Just my opinion.
------------------ http://www.gldb.com/wayno/epona2.gif Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. Epona of The Laughing Hyenas and The Ladies Guild. |
this situtation will DEFINATELY resolve in peace
China cannot afford a fight. in china, numerous nations are potentially hostile. Philipine patrols just shot two chinese fishmen to death last month. Indonisa navy pratice their combats at south china sea, indicating that should china make a move (refers to southern china sea islands) they will not back off. Vianam just invaded one of the chinese pisols and claimed ownership. Japnese right wings cheat the history and disclaimed any crimes the past japanese government had commited. and at last, China and Taiwan are experiencing a great tension. philine has american back up, the later planned to build US army base at the formal's land. India's navy has american supposrt while Taiwan, for sure, sides with america. I am sure Japanese government are LOOKING for war. they cannot start one, but they will benefit a great deal from it. why? Japanese are not allowed to have their own army but small amount of defense after the second world war. the rules still apply to morden japan. should any tiny combat happen in asia, they will use the chance to form a formidable defense... and the rest is unknown to me. China cannot win this fight should it comes to war. the only chance is peace, and speed up its own economy so that it can have a future. I believe chinese government knows about it, since they hadn't answered any of those threat with armies. let us hope for peace http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-07-2001).] |
I agree, 250. Neither side can claim innocence or justification in this matter.
I was in college/university at the time the Iranian "students" siezed the US Embassy in Terheran (sp?). There was an Iranian kid in my dorm who caught hell from just about everyone but me and a few others. This guy was thousands of miles from home and family and scared to death that a bunch of us Americans were going to take him hostage. Anyhow, this poor kid did hate the Shah and with good reason - his father was a newspaper editor who printed some stories which displeased the Shah. The kid's father went to work one day and never came home. He also resented the way in which the American intelligence and military organizations had not only put the Shah in power but helped keep him there for over twenty years. The kid did not, however have anything against the American people, did not agree with the Embassy seizure and was scared to death of what Khomeni and his zealots would do to his country. Poor guy wound up leaving school and going back to Iran to be with his mother. A Syrian girl, who also lived in the dorm, kept in touch with him for a while. She stopped getting replies when war between Iran and Iraq started. Damned shame *P*E*O*P*L*E* can't resolve these disputes instead of governments... ------------------ http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...t1lg_opt60.gif - for cut rate prices call 976-BRIS-FOR-LESS {Next time I send some damned fool, I'll go myself...} |
this is the second time US murdered chinese, the first time was when Clinton bombed chinese ambassy...
man, i can image there must be a big uproar in china right now, people with selfish "national pride" walk on the street holding anit-american slogans, burning american flags, jamming US-ambassy... sigh... while the most thing they should do is to direct their energy at working up the economy so that china man like me can spam the forum while the rest of you tremble in fear http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif |
no but still there are alot of thing that don't sit right. First there was 21 Russian diplomat expeled from the United-States for suposed espionage, the a submarine suddenly docks at a Japan harbor with no warning, Then the armericain pull out of the treaty of kyoto and there is that spyplane buisness ( I may haved missed afew other insident.)
They might be all un-realated insidents. but in realty if insidents like these countinue to happen one country it's gonna triger an insident of some kind. We all know that when there is a treath to the States in usualy means the president will get re-elected. |
I am just saying china cannot win should it come to fight, thats all
|
no but china represents a possible threat... even if the United States has a better army enghou douth exists in the average Joe's mind that China and Communisit are a possible threat.
The united States in a war would win againts China but China could still get in a couple of hard hits on americain targets. In a war againts China it's imperative that the United States get hit first since then iit could call opond it's allies to share the blunt of the blow. If the Americain would strike China first then all threaties are void and countries can do what ever they chose. But this is all a supposition. If it actualy happened who knows what exatly could happen. In this conflict the thing is China caught the Americains with there pants down and they are gonna milk it. (but as it's been mention the States would have done the same, anyone remeber that little rascal Cuban kid nei? I'll avoid telling the name). Now we can all know that diplomacy will prevale but both sides are gonna milk this to there advantage. The Chinesse discovred this Americain plot withing there border and won and the President's P.R team are gonna make it look like Bush swam the pacific and single handedly save those solgiers. so sit back wait utill one side gives and be prepared for a flood of 20/20 (and cheasy talk shows) reports on the threat of communist China and Boom breaking news flash -A dog with a puffy tail has been found craping on the president's lawn, It has been trialed for threason more at 11 pm news-- and there is a new flavor of the month everybody forgets China the world is againt at peace. |
hmmm,
this is only an opinion!! (so dont sue me) i know that China and USA will be the two superpowers country in the future. however i think china will be able to become more powerful than USA (not now but in the future). in the past, China has been abused by foriegn countries for power and wealth. last (i dont know when) century (i think) the multinational countries of the world attacked China because China did not agree with thier kind of treaty. while China had more troops, martial arts defenitly could not win against the force of the gun and other technology therefore China lost against them. this forced China to bend to thier own kinds of treaty and not of China's. while this was in the past, China has suffered multiple abuses from other countries. Now that China has become quite influencial in the modern world, I "THINK" that china would not like history to repeat itself. USA has somewhat become quite arrogant with thier superiority with the other countries. sometimes i think that USA only gives out oneway treaties that benefit only them. USA will certainly do what they want because they can AFFORD to do what they want. a classic example is what mentioned earlier by Strahd Von Zarovich, the usa forced japan to open thier borders by use of force for thier own interest. while US become arrogant they are still quite superior in the world today and other countries follow because they have no choice. in the current problem today i totally agree with 250 simply because they are still to weak to fight back. and if "EVER" there will be a world war 3 then we will all be dead in an instant because of nuclear technology. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/frown.gif as for your discussion with Philippines (my country), the reason for these disputes is because China "claims" territory over some disputed areas when "officially" they are ours. i know that the country claims over 200 mile radious over the water and China still argues since they say its thier land since its historical or something.. as for the current problem with the airplane i find it kinda funny. imagine two planes bumpin each other when there is LOTS OF SPACE IN THE AIR http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif ... and i dont know whose fault it is because US claims that they were flying in international waters or China says that they were flying over chinese waters... still two planes colliding in midair.. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif ... and how come both of them did not detect each other, i mean US said its a spyplane then im sure it has radar or something right?? so how come it didnt see any fighter jet heading straight for it... ------------------ Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath... |
Strahd Von Zarovich dude, i dont understand what you trying to say. threat threat, always threat. it is not about fight or battle or war. china cannot win because war is not an option, therefore it is not going to do it. it is doesnt matter how much army one has, or how many nuclear bombs one can launch. china would be no threat if american government dont stick his nose in east asia.
you just empty talk such as "US would win in a war against china." those assumptions should come with circumstances. without circumstances, just simply assume who is gonna win makes no sense. also, does it matter? is it such a good thing to celebrate that US army destroyed chinese army or chinese army destroyed us army? let us pray there be no war [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-07-2001).] |
Harkoliar, i agree some of your post and disagree some as well.
anyway, just one thing to point out though, do you really think Philipine will shoot and kill two chinese fishmen if they have no authority permission? and who gave those permissions? and who had the guts to do it? if they have no support from a bigger nation, i think they would just swallow and give up the islands the apparent for killing is China trying to claim ownership of disputed islands. but if you look into it, there is more cause than that. [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-07-2001).] |
Moni, welcome to the new forum http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif
oops, i thought you are new, my bad... welcome back, LOL [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-07-2001).] |
I don't normally get into political discussions or religious ones either for that matter as I respect the fact that we all have different opinions and I would rather not lose the acquaintence of someone because they can't accept the fact that I am right http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...miles/wink.gif
I would not say China could not win a war against the US...there are many ways for disabling a country and I say let's not entice them into trying. I agree that "W" is a bit lacking in the intelligence dept. and I am amazed that the public looked the other way while he stole the election but then it just goes to show you how far reaching having power on the inside can be. Not to say that Gore would have been good for our country's security on a world-wide level but...well, that is another discussion entirely. I would hope the US will accept the fact that they got caught spying and accept their military personnel being shipped home ahead of the boxed parts of their plane. Restitution should be paid to China for the loss of their fighter esp since "W" was quoted as saying that the planes merely "bumped" in mid-air before making the emergency landing on Chinese territory. The complete loss of the Chinese fighter plane and its pilot suggest otherwise. The US messed up...just because they are the world's "super-power" does not mean they have to make excuses, look the other way and blame the other guy. The Chinese gov't has the right to interrogate the crew and inspect the plane. The US also has the right to get them all back. Praying that all will be resolved peacefully, Moni [This message has been edited by Moni (edited 04-07-2001).] |
|
well they were "supposidly illegal fisherman" and was destroying the natural environment... but thats what they say.. i dont believe everything what the new says anymore...
ps: but there are illegal fisherman who try to get away therefore prompting the Philippine Navy to shoot at them ... they have been "poaching" and fishing in the disputed area... even IN the PHilippine area.. ------------------ Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath... |
Quote:
|
really?? no that i didnt hear about in the news.. .
------------------ Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath... |
people dont report those things very often you know? this is the art of communcation... or miscommunication, call it anything you want
|
I dont think we owe them a nickel for their airplane. A four engine TURBOPROP aircraft ramming a twin engined JET fighter? One cruises at 350 mph, the other at 600( and capable of mach2)you do the math. If anything they owe us repair money.
|
Quote:
lol, though i think you are drunk, you mathematical common sense is still amazingly convincing http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif |
LoA
I appreciate your opinion but we WERE spying on them! Who is to say that their guy rammed ours or even the other way around? The fact is, their guy died and we got caught spying...all parties invloved should do the best they can to resovle the situation in the most peaceful manner and that means give and take on both sides. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif Moni |
Rikard, I have a couple questions for you, now that you have attacked our President. Did you know that the chinese were caught stealing nuclear secret from the US. Or, that they have purchased weaponry from Russia that has the capability to launch nuclear weapons, that are undetecable, into ours, or your country.
I have also been watching the news about this subjest, apparently this chinese pilot that was involved in the collision has seen Top Gun(the movie) too many times. He thinks he is Maverick or something. There are reports that he has flashed hi E-mail to other pilots in that style. I am going to look for back up for that. Let's be honest here, every body spies, that's why we have the CIA, secret service, and all those other agencies. I'm sure sure that every coubtry has their own agencies. This was an accident, and needs to be treated as such. For the chinese to demamnd an apology is a little outrageous. I'm not saying that we should not apologize, but to demand it, when they are just as guilty, is a bit much. The way the Chinese were dealt with in the past, by a former president in my opinion was wrong. Once they developed nuclear capability they need to be treated as a competitor, rather than a "buddy". And once they purchased those weapons to fire undetectable nuclear weapons they definitly earn that right to be watched carefully. Look, my friend, nothing personal but this is an issue that I am passionate about. I look forward to discussing the issue. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/wildleprechaun/merlin.gif Feel My Power Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done" |
Quote:
of course, a country with power deserve the right to do everything to other countries. and if other countries have the power, then they are no longer "slaves" now they are competitors you go ahead and believe what the news say. think about it, how did they know exactly what the chinese pilot wrote in his email? and by what right do they have to judge him as "Top Gun" thing? of course you spy and watch other countries', as those are often required for a people's survival. but you cannot justify the wrong by using the past flases as excuse. then you are saying Japanese should launch two nuclear bombs at US? in this matter, US is clearly wrong. then again, no one is out of guilty. however that doesn't mean a nation who commited such an act can walk away freely. |
Quote:
I didn't say that he emailed them I said he showed them his email address ala top gun picture taking......There are also Chinese reports that had him listed as a loose cannon.... One other question, is it easier to maneuver a figher or a large spy plane. ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/bilder/merlingray.gif Feel My Power Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done" |
about plane thing, i have to say i know very little. but my sense is telling me, a spyplane should be small and fast, you tell me?
|
I haven't read all the posts on this, but I think the American Govt. is just so INCREDIBLY ham-fisted in its Foreign Policy (erm... does it even have one...?). And Bush seems to be even more - what's the word? - more... Hell! Whats the word that means 'sticking your head up your rear end'?
If the incident had happened with a Chinese plane off the American coast there would ALREADY BE a WWIII! Why is the American administration such an a$$hole? I do not mean to Insult American here - just the stunningly anal American Govt. Yes, I'm bitching. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...miles/wink.gif ------------------ Smile! Life is too short for bitching! http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...s/EEhearts.gif Fljotsdale |
Quote:
------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/bilder/merlingray.gif Feel My Power Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done" |
Quote:
if what you said is true, then probally it is unlikely a fighter will bump into a spyplane. I really cannot make any assupmtion here, because, not knowing the real circumstances, any guess i make would be worng, no matter how likely they sem to be true. what do you think about the bumping thing? |
Quote:
Truth be told, we probably never will find out what really happened because of top secret security, an d the unfortunate death of the Chinese pilot. ------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/bilder/merlingray.gif Feel My Power Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done" |
Quote:
------------------ http://wolfgir.najk.net/bilder/merlingray.gif Feel My Power Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done" |
Quote:
Rikard, I do not wish to flame you on this , like it or not the U.S.A. is the current top dog. While you are complaining about our elected president remember he is our pres. From your address on the side of your post I see that you are not from the U.S.A. complain all you want it won't make a rat's rear end in how our country acts or reacts. I'm a 39 year old man I've seen my country and pres. put down and reviled by many people around the world over the years, but when something happens they all come running to us for help. Personaly I am PROUD that we can help them, does anyone think the if the U.S.S.R. had won the cold war they would come running to help you. Take the Balkins it is not in our back yard, it has little or no strategic value to our nation, but we are there to help stabilize your continent. I grew up on U.S. military institutions , My father was a fighter pilot,during the cold war. My home was always on or near a prime target for a nuclear strike. There are things worse than death, communism, fascism, slavery, etc. Rikard, I have read on another of your posts where you called President Bush a fascist, I submit that you check out some history books and read about the country to your east, and what happen there in the 30's & 40's. You also might read about either Italy , or Spain during the same time frame. Then compare true fascism to what WE have here in the U.S.A. There is a world of differance between the two. No disrepect to the other nations of the "free world" but without us your whole existance would be differant. [This message has been edited by John D Harris (edited 04-07-2001).] |
While I don't agree with China polices in some areas I also don't agree with the US's and believe that Bush should apologise for the death of the pilot, even though some evidence has shown that the Chinese plane approached the US one from the belly in an attempt to spook it and that it and other Planes had attempted slimmer things to another US spy planes for years. It was accidental that the collided and that the Chinese plane crashed, the pilot still unfound but thought dead. A person was lost their life here (About 5 day in the ocean so I think it fair to say so), while the US pilots are a live and Bush should apologise (Mind you if it wasn't for a few of his actions at the start it would of been resolved by now, a Chinese official has said that an expression of regret over the actions and a polite request to have them back would of settled it at the start but Bush took other actions that angered China, who are still after the apologies in an act not to appear weak to it people.) If Bush would just say the word sorry the matter would be over.
On another note Bush election did not start the spying, it is a standard practise that occurred for years and it is not one sided, a few months ago a Chinese agent 'acquired' the plans for a powerful warhead. All countries are spying on each other, it only when the agent(s) get capture that anyone say anything about it. ------------------ "I need no signature. Put together your own conglomeration of words and stick it onto the tail of your email messages in hopes of coming off as clever or deep. My messages speak volumes enough." - Anonymous [This message has been edited by Gabriel (edited 04-07-2001).] |
Quote:
[This message has been edited by John D Harris (edited 04-07-2001).] |
about the helping thing
who asked US's help? no body. go home |
Grey Mage,
Here, Here I agree completly, but don't tell anyone seeing how you a Yankee and all that. I might get kicked out of the southern redneck clubhttp://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:27 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved