I had something longer typed up, covering my bases so I don't get flamed by any console fAnBoIz, but considering IW has entire forums dedicated to games consolers only wish they knew about, I get the feeling they're a minority here. I'll get to the point.

I haven't researched the game a lot (it's ES4. I'm buying it. Period.), but I do know it's being released on Xbox360 also. Should I be worried?

Is the entire game design going to be dumbed down so it can be played on console (i don't mean just graphically of course, I mean the engine and other aspects of the game)? Or, will only the unfortunate souls getting it on Xbox be the only ones missing out?

Seems fairly obvious that with what they're trying to do with this game, the devs wouldn't limit themselves to what the Xbox can do, but I just want to be sure.


thanks

Didn't they have Morrowind on Xbox too though? And at the time they were trying to do alot also. I wouldn't worry so much as be wary. Maybe wait when it releases and then look for Xbox reviews.

Yeah, Morrowind was on Xbox, but I'm pretty sure MW was a fairly old game by the time Xbox was even concieved (I could be wrong; I wasn't introduced to MW until a couple years ago, but had that impression it was and old, but great, game at that time). Porting a game that was years old onto a next gen console isn't much of a problem (I would bet Xbox is probably as powerful, if not more powerful than a lot of the PCs that were around when Morrowind was a new game).

It's just that I haven't seen or heard anything (including the small amount or research I've recently done myself) suggesting what the devs are going either way, I was just hoping someone else has. I'd hate to see what could be the arguably the greatest game of all time fall short of what it could be, because it has to be console compatible.

In some cases I'd be worried, but from what I've read, it seems like the efforts the devs made to compromise* will make the game more fun. For example, the combat will be based on your character statistics, but the timing of your swings and shield block counts, as does the type of attack per damage (as usual). If you swing when the skeleton has its shield up, you're wasting a swing and opening yourself up.

As for Xbox morrowind, it was released about the same time I think (the PC dev cycle started way before Xbox came out, but they started the XBox project before the pc version was released for sure). It was identical to the PC version, only it ran better unless you had a much better than average PC at the time. What it didn't have were mods - and that's why I want Oblivion for the PC, even if it's a new PC. The Xbox version was also re-released with one or both expansions. In any case, it was kinda fun navigating the world and fighting with the throttle sticks.

I had (access to) Morrowind for both at various times, with the Xbox first.

*Edit: and by compromise, I mean just taking care of things that were alien to the console gamers, like swinging and having it totally rely on numbers instead of your coordination. I really don't foresee any dumbing down. The changes look awesome from what I've seen. I'm really looking foward to the new stealth and backstab style of play that rogues will have available - more like Thief than morrowind.

[ 11-03-2005, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Lucern ]

Yeah it was around the same age as Xbox IIRC. I gathered you meant UI and controls when you talked about being dumbed down rather than graphics or anything (it wasn't on both counts, either way).

I'd also go for the PC version for patches and mods myself. I rarely play RPG's on a console.

yeah, that's what I meant. Perhaps they didn't backtrack on anything they'd done so it would work on console, but I'd imagine they at least considered console a 'limitation' on what they could do?

I'm getting it for PC regardless, there's no doubt about that (better graphics, prefer mouse/keyboard over controller, and of course, mods).


Lucern, I've heard that's how the combat works, but didn't know it was a result of the console limitations?

[ 11-03-2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: cav_again ]

I don't think it's console limitations per se, but rather what console gamers are used to when it comes to combat.

That could be true, but still, limiting what could be done with the game, for the sake of being able to sell it on console to just doesn't sit well with me. =/

I mean, I know Money > all, but with some of the revolutionary things they're trying to do with the game (i.e. the Radiant A.I. and whatnot), you'd think the devs themselves would want to focus on the PC version of the game, and maybe tone down the console port if need be.

[ 11-03-2005, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: cav_again ]

The real dumbing down in the conversion from PC to console is the aspect we used to expect from the Elder Scrolls: pixelated nude people :D

ES 1: Check.
ES 2: Check and double check. The temple of Dibella is creepy.
ES 3: Nope. Though there was one truly disturbing bar with dancing mannequins hehe.
ES 4: Doubt it.

No big loss hehe. In ES 2 that was the creepiest thing because they were 2D and so were always looking at you.

And yeah, one of the devs was saying that they noticed a lot of console players being confused that they couldn't operate the shield in MW. It's all about expectations rather than limitations.

That could be true, but still, limiting what could be done with the game, for the sake of being able to sell it on console to just doesn't sit well with me. =/

I mean, I know Money > all, but with some of the revolutionary things they're trying to do with the game (i.e. the Radiant A.I. and whatnot), you'd think the devs themselves would want to focus on the PC version of the game, and maybe tone down the console port if need be. </font>[/QUOTE]The console market is a pretty big market.

[ 11-04-2005, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

Don't you worry, the next six months afer Oblivions release will be filled with Modders making nude mods...

LOL...whew. Close one Kyrvias!

What Stratos said I think will affect a lot of the games we'll enjoy (or not) in the coming years. The console market is HUGE. So much bigger than the PC market. On the plus side, consoles are becoming more and more like PC's...at some point I'm sure they'll just ask you whether or not you want MS Office with your xbox 5 ;)

The devs have stated over and over again that there is no difference between the PC version and Xbox 360 version. However what the 360 has to offer for Oblivion is a game that can be run at maxed out settings. Some people can't afford $1000+ for a new gaming computer. They want their fanbase to truly enjoy the game, and that is what the 360 allows for.

So I don't think there should be a problem between PC and 360. And last time I checked, the Xbox version of Morrowind sold more copies than the PC.

Yes, the 360 is more available for the casual gamer. For those who don't want to pay 1000+ for a pc, its right there for the taking. or cheaper taking.

I personally, anm going to get it on the 360, because I don't have enough for a PC quite frankly... ;)

The devs have stated over and over again that there is no difference between the PC version and Xbox 360 version.

So I don't think there should be a problem between PC and 360. And last time I checked, the Xbox version of Morrowind sold more copies than the PC. </font>[/QUOTE]<font color = mediumspringgreen>I would agree with the sentiments that most have expressed; about the PC version not suffering because of the XBox, for various reasons. But something that I haven't seen brought up is the likely POSITIVE impact of the economics of X-Box on ES4 quality. With that hugh console market out there, the developers can afford to spend the money to make the game BETTER than it would be for the CPU-only market. Now, I am not saying that the extra market actually resulted in a better game for ES4; but I would expect that as console and PC capabilities look more and more alike, the economics are there to allow a general trend towards a better product for both: Everybody wins.
</font>

Good points Noble Nick about the positives. It's good to see there's an actual market for deep nonlinear RPGs for consoles.

I am worried that some kinds of games simply don't appeal to console markets to benefit though. With less of a share of the market, these could, in theory, even become fewer and of less quality with such greater rewards in console markets. Now, I could easily be wrong as I rarely pay attention, but have the consoles had a decent strategy game? Turn based strategy or tactics? Tactical shooters (not counting half-hearted (heh) attempts at porting Rainbow Six games)? Simulation (as in IL-2 Sturmovik or Silent Hunter series)? The console-playing population is changing and diversifying though, so I can only hope. And yes, I do like the relatively unpopular genres lol, aside from the least popular and accessible genre yet conceived: war.

...Now, I could easily be wrong as I rarely pay attention, but have the consoles had a decent strategy game? <font color = mediumspringgreen> I don't pay attention either. Virtually all of the games out there have no appeal for me; but I zero in on strategy games. And are they out there? Not that I've seen. I have a "Feudal Japan Military" strategy; for which I had high hopes, but it's not that good. And I don't play chess on my X-box.</font>

Turn based strategy or tactics? <font color = mediumspringgreen>Good ones: Like Alpha Centuari? Nope. </font>

Tactical shooters? <font color = mediumspringgreen> Lots of awesome FPS; but I take it you mean squad-level tactics. Don't know: Not my type of game.</font>

Simulation (as in IL-2 Sturmovik or Silent Hunter series)? <font color = mediumspringgreen>Can't think of any.

Heh, heh, heh, I think you've made your point. </font>

I think the designers would prefer you play it on Xbox 360. It is far more advanced than most top of the line computers.

The devs would only prefer you play Oblivion on 360 if you cannot afford to buy a new, teched out gaming rig. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people won't be willing to shell out $1000+ for one game when they can spend $300+ game cost. And I wouldn't say its far more advanced than most top of line computers, since its technology is pretty much the same with what computers have now.

BTW, two new graphics cards came out which top the 360's card (GeForce7800GTX I believe). The Radeon X1800XT and GeForce 7800GTX 512 are true beasts, both being 512mb video RAM. Of course, the Radeon is nearly $550 while the GTX 512 is around $700...

The devs would only prefer you play Oblivion on 360 if you cannot afford to buy a new, teched out gaming rig. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people won't be willing to shell out $1000+ for one game when they can spend $300+ game cost. And I wouldn't say its far more advanced than most top of line computers, since its technology is pretty much the same with what computers have now.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color = mediumspringgreen>But I thought I heard that Bethesda was trying hard to make sure you didn't need bleeding edge technology to have an excellent gameplay experience.

Regardless, time and technology march on. I agree with Secret Master's statement that the Xbox 360 is not THAT far ahead of PCs. And graphics cards that were considered bleeding edge consumer technology at the START of ES4 Alpha testing should (unfortunately) be affordable by the time the game releases. I think a $200 investment in graphics hardware would be all that would be needed to upgrade a Pentium- or Athlon-based gaming computer that is 4 years old or younger.

I am hoping (and expecting) that my ATI 9800Pro will handle the load. If not, I think that most who are awaiting Oblivion are likewise screwed. In that case, I'll be playing my newfound Morrowind for another 6 months, until the ES4 hysteria cools a bit and hardware (and SW?) prices drop.</font>

[ 12-12-2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

The devs would only prefer you play Oblivion on 360 if you cannot afford to buy a new, teched out gaming rig. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people won't be willing to shell out $1000+ for one game when they can spend $300+ game cost. And I wouldn't say its far more advanced than most top of line computers, since its technology is pretty much the same with what computers have now.</font>[/QUOTE]<font color = mediumspringgreen>But I thought I heard that Bethesda was trying hard to make sure you didn't need bleeding edge technology to have an excellent gameplay experience.

Regardless, time and technology march on. I agree with Secret Master's statement that the Xbox 360 is not THAT far ahead of PCs. And graphics cards that were considered bleeding edge consumer technology at the START of ES4 Alpha testing should (unfortunately) be affordable by the time the game releases. I think a $200 investment in graphics hardware would be all that would be needed to upgrade a Pentium- or Athlon-based gaming computer that is 4 years old or younger.

I am hoping (and expecting) that my ATI 9800Pro will handle the load. If not, I think that most who are awaiting Oblivion are likewise screwed. In that case, I'll be playing my newfound Morrowind for another 6 months, until the ES4 hysteria cools a bit and hardware (and SW?) prices drop.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Your graphics card will more than handle the load. Its a mid-range card. You'll get plenty of graphic goodness. Steve Meister, lead programmer for Bethesda, has a 9800pro to test Oblivion on his comp.

And yes, Bethesda is designing the game with the intent of that you don't need an uber computer to play the game. But when I said that, I was talking about in reference to playing the game at maximum capacity. The devs have stated that they want everyone to experience the game in "all its glory". That means every setting maxed out for an amazing performance. The game itself has great compatability with older gaming rigs, but chances are they can't have every setting maxed out with an insane resolution.

My system specs are
AMD Athlon XP 2600+
2.09ghz
1gb RAM
Radeon 9700

This alone I think, will run the game at medium settings, some maybe set to low. I can play games like Call of Duty II and Doom III just fine. My graphics card is a bit weak, but it will get the job done.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Mid-range!?!? [/i]~sigh~[/i] Time and technology march on, indeed.</font>

[ 12-13-2005, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

I saw a 9800Pro on Ebay for about £60 yesterday. I was gonna buy it, but I think I'm gonna get a 6600 instead.

Also another way to look at things. One of the animators for Oblivion, along with a few others, have said that the comp they used to play Bloodmoon on is the same one that they use to test/run Oblivion.

Also, couple this with the fact that Bethesda now has nearly 3 months devoted purely to optimizing (the game is already finished) and it is more than likely that things will run amazing for all of us.

If you mean 'Fast' when you say 'advanced'... a few months ago that would have been true, now it's only 'about as fast' as a top of the line 'off the shelf' computer.

In 3 months it will be noticeably slower than a top of the line computer.

In 6 months it will be totally off the bottom of the chart.

In a year it will be pathetic, like the XBox and PS2 have been for years. ;)

The downside for PC users is that game quality stalls at the current fastest console... so while we will enjoy some nice state of the art games for the next 6 months to a year or so, after that we'll have another 4 years of looking forward to games built to play on another slow old console (except it'll be the 360 this time).

I imagine top game developers have some pretty hot sysems, and I also imagine they play on both platforms to get a feel for how their game handles on both.

As far as 'advanced'... well thats a different beast. Consoles are single purpose systems, not particularly 'advanced' compared to computers IMO.

I haven't decided if I will buy a XBox 360 yet. While my laptop will probably run Oblivion, it's still a laptop, not a state-of-the-art gaming machine.

An XBox 360 is the only really interresting choice of the next-gen consoles.

Quote:

Originally posted by SecretMaster: Your graphics card will more than handle the load. Its a mid-range card.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Mid-range!?!? [/i]~sigh~[/i] Time and technology march on, indeed.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]well... actually, if it's the 128 mb version, it's actually in the group of "low-range" cards, in bethsoft's estimation. :(

i'm considering getting the 360 myself, because my whole machine is now in the low-range group. and with 360 i'd still get the full game experience AND mods.

V***V

Hopefully, the XBox 360 will be backwards compitable with the Morrowind GOTY on the original XBox. If so, I will be able to finish it as my laptop don't run it well.

Playing Oblivion on laptops??? Hmm, that depends for me. I just prefer a nice PC for a gaming rig, a better environment.

The only thing I'd worry about is that laptops tend to get very hot with their processors (at least pentium chips). And a game like Oblivion might be running your comp like crazy, so I don't know how hot it get. But then again, I've never actually owned a laptop. So I don't know if they could overrheat easily.

I dunno, technology wise I think the PS3 looks the most interesting, Bluetooth controllers, Blu-ray DVD... some very cool tech in there for the money. (especially if they can get the price in the $400 range)