Does anyone else feel that by having spoken dialogue instead of text, it lessens the whole immersion factor of the game? I'm not a big fan of voice acting in rpgs for two reasons:

1. It takes up more disc space. Not that i'm short of it or anything, but if they only had, say, 20% of dialogue spoken by actors, they'd be able to fit in about 5000 times more dialogue for all the various npcs. Elder Scrolls games are heavy on the 'generic' npc and i feel that they need to move away from this trap. If each npc were given about 100 new, unique lines of unspoken dialogue (still about 1000 lines short of what i'd like), it'd still cost less money, time, disc space and people to produce than 100% voice acting and it'd fix the problem of the generic (boring) npc.

2. The level of *cough* talent in game voices in general leaves a lot to be desired. I like my rpg experience to be rich. Like a fat book. And like a book, i like to leave the particulars of voice characteristics to my own imagination. (how many of you prefer reading a book as opposed to listening to a book?) Believe it or not, most non-Americans don't like listening to American accents in their rpgs. (I kid you not, it's true!) And i've yet to come across a 'monster' voice that wasn't corny in the extreme. (NWN anyone?)

I'm not saying there shouldn't be voice talent at all. There are times where a little 'talented' voice talent has really brought a character to life: Sarevok, Tommy Vercetti, Irenicus etc. But for every good example i'm left with 100 bad ones that should've been left as text.

More on this a little later. I've got to get back to work. But i'll finish this post by casting my vote:

100% spoken dialogue in Oblivion? Nay.

I don't mind spoken dialogue myself in addition to text dialogues. The ideal would of course be if you could adjust this to your tastes ingame.

They've been using some good voice actors for Oblivion, at least for some major characters. I also think that they mentioned in one of the demos that half of the game (in size) consist of voice-over dialogues. And that for a game that supposedly require 10.5 GB of free hard disk space to install.

As for non-American voice overs; doesn't that that thief you meet in the slums in BG2, you know the ones that goes "Coo", speak with an Aussie accent?

1. There were several problems all of the fans addressed. These were bad combat, generic npc's and framerate issues. They have at least dealt with the first two, making combat kinetic and npc's (all 1200 of them) unique.

2. Notice how all of the actors are British? (wasn't this the case with MW as well?)

It only sounds aussie to someone who doesn't speak it. If there's an accent i don't want to hear in an rpg at all, it's aussie. *shrugs* It worked quite well for Halo though.

[edit: spelling]

[ 10-14-2005, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: Sever ]

Nah, i think it's an attempt at creating a character with a Cockney English accent. Mind you, not a very good one though.

1. There were several problems all of the fans addressed. These were bad combat, generic npc's and framerate issues. They have at least dealt with the first two, making combat kinetic and npc's (all 1200 of them) unique.

2. Notice how all of the actors are British? (wasn't this the case with MW as well?) </font>[/QUOTE]If they're making each character unique, then that's fine with me. But from what i've seen from the demos, each line of dialogue is short and more than a little simple. And even though i love Patrick Stewart (not literally, but you get the idea) i didn't find a single example of quality voice acting. Maybe i'm just a fussy bastard, but i'd much prefer to leave most of the voices to my own imagination and use the extra disk space to make the dialogue not so "condensed".

British accents (not actors) are the status quo in rpgs and, on the whole, i don't have a problem with that. I also don't mind 'some' of the non-accents like the hoarse, guttural dark elf speach. But aside from a little introductory comment to set the scene, i'd like to leave it all in my head. But that's just me. Something tells me i'm in the overwhelming minority here...

I'll be frankly honest and agree wholeheartedly with you, Sever. You're not being fussy, just espousing your tastes. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I definitely would prefer more text to speech for various reasons, most of them aesthetic, but some of them philosophical. A balance between the two is critical, I feel, for the 'wholeness' of the game experience.
There's the immersion factor and there's also the deeply personal interactivity between mind and text which traditionally cRPGS have had in large quantities, going back to the great Ultima IV. This game exemplifies just how text can really serve to draw you inside a virtual world. Obviously it is dwarfed now by the massive rpgs of the modern era (Baldurs Gate) and even the generic dialogue trees from Morrowind, but the Ultima experience is very much captivating from the art of its written words, or 'purple prose' as Dicky Garriot once called it.

I don't want to pre-empt Oblivion at all here, but this 100% spoken dialogue notion tends to give me vague fears of a general 'dumbing down' of its gameplay in favour of quasi-cinematic drama which is less demanding on the ol' brain.
Now this may sound odd, but one of the reasons I don't mind my younger brother having extended sessions on Morrowind (other than for the fact that is a good game!) is the fact that it is indeed fairly text heavy and that he generally doesn't read as much as I'd ideally want him to. Any rpg, nay, any game that can continue to help pass on a love of the written word in this way gets my [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I'd argue generally for the inverse: the less speech and the more text, the better since it allows the imagination to have a deeper role in the gaming experience rather than have characterisation imposed upon one's mind through too much voice. I thought Morrowind featured a reasonable balance, if only for the sub-par generic writing at times, it would have been superb. Lets hope Oblivion is flexible in its speech options and retains a Morrowind like text immersion.

Cheers,
CereborDragon

P.S: Every time I see Patrick Stewart mentioned, I grin and cheer "Long Live King Richard and the Ruby of Truth!" :D He's awesome, for sure.

[ 10-14-2005, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

I love the concept of fully spoken dialogue for a fully evolved gaming world, but to be honest, I think in practice it will actually reduce realism.

In Morrowind, every NPC had the same answer for everything, and I think an audio version of this will only magnify the effect, as it will draw more attention to the fact that the characters not only say the same thing, but say it in the same voice with the same tone. In this particular area, I'd agree with Sever and say the more that is left to the imagination, the better.

Not sure if I got my point across properly there, but I've got to be at work in twenty minutes! :D

Keep Moving. :D

Adventure games (i.e Gabriel Knight series for one) have obviously been doing the full speech thing a long time before the immersive 3d first person rpg.

But I think as virtual worlds and roleplaying games get even larger and the technology advances likewise along side it, the concept of a fully voice-driven game world does become more interesting, sure. Whether any of us will be alive to truly see the full realisation of the idea, is another question. [img]smile.gif[/img]

So providing the gameplay mechanics and roleplaying depth involved isn't 'dumbed down' in any way and there is enough text to keep me happy, I probably won't mind with Oblivion.

*Rushes off to secure new motherboard and RAM purchase in excited view release date*.

Thankyou Cerebro. 'Dumbing down' is a good phrase to describe what i fear will happen to the dialogue with 100% voice acting.

Spoken dialogue will indeed highlight recycled lines. You can't glance and ignore audio like you can with text. I'm wondering if there may be a "shut up" function to cancel a line. Even though we're supposed to be getting unique dialogue for each of the npcs, i can't imagine that there won't be at least a few lines of shared, generic speech. This doesn't really bother me too much. In real life, if you ask the right questions to enough people, you're bound to get generic answers.

Nah, i think it's an attempt at creating a character with a Cockney English accent. Mind you, not a very good one though. </font>[/QUOTE]That was supposed to be Cockney?

Haha, that's what I was trying to say! :D
I'm pretty sure there is, it was mentioned in the E3 demo IIRC.

EDIT: http://www.consolegold.com/Articles/...artID=106&pg=2
Fourth paragraph down. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-15-2005, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Brayf ]

So we can tell 'em to block it. Much goodness.

I remembered another issue i have with spoken dialogue though it's relatively minor. A great feature of Morrowind was the ability to seamlessly blend player created mods with the existing game (depending on the skill of the modder, of course). Artwork and scripting on par with the original could be added by almost anyone who took the time to learn it. And the results speak for themselves. Morrowind is one of the most modded games out there.

But voice talent is a tool that is beyond the means of all but the most avid modder. And in a game full of voices, there'll be a clear distinction between the original and "after market" elements.

I'm not sure if this'll turn out to be a big deal or not. I'm sure there'll be options within the editor to assign existing voices to player created npcs, but this kinda impedes upon the modders' creativity. And freedom of creativity, more than anything, is important for the production of quality mods.

Having large sections of new dialogue presented as text when everything else is spoken is going to detract from the whole immersion factor. And the thought of the voices that some of the 'would be' Patrick Stewarts are gonna come up with is already making me cringe. I wouldn't be surprised if a whole new voice talent pool springs up within the modding community not long after Oblivion is released. If it doesn't *shrugs* perhaps it should.

Your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I guess I agree. Although as you say, it's a pretty minor point. :D It's certainly not something I'd be likely to care about either way unless something major happened mod-wise, but I do agree with the ideas.

TO start my spelling sucks, it has always sucked and always will so, try to over look the bad gramer and mis-spelled words. Thanks :D

There are 4 well known actors M/F and 10-20 something others doing other voices. There is also the option of readable text if you want to set it for voice or both voice and text.

I really like the Idea of being able to stand off to the side and over hear two or three NPC's talking about things happening in the country without a box poping up with the same thing in print. Afterward moving to another group and hear someting different that may be what I need to know or maybe entering into the conversation with any of the groups myself or just taking what I hear and useing them as I see fit or leaving the quest selection alone all together and moving on.

There are alot of things in Oblivion that has never been done before and some people are going to like it and others will complain but, they will have to live with it or go play something else.
If you don't like PC's and NPC's talking to each other and really prefer to read the story then go buy a book.
Bethesda Has done what no other game company has ever done and that is taken the time to give us NPC's with a high level of artifical intellegence with synchronized speech and mouth movement. Its what thousands and thousands of us have asked for. I think it's going to be great to have some NPC walk up to me and not have to read or hear the same line over and over from every NPC in the game and I hate that big POP UP BOX with the list of what you want to hear for the NPC.
Then because of what I do throughout the rest of the game it will determin what that same NPC will say to me the next time I talk to him or her.
For those of you that want to read everything, there are 80,000 other games on the shelves for you to read and 40 million books at the library with much better stories.

To worry about MODS and the voice acting later is kind of dumb or else you are really a Newb to RPG games. Alot of us have been playing RPG's scence the early 80s and with only pencils and GraphPaper with each of the players sitting around a coffee table makeing up everything on the fly as we played and you want to talk about crapy acting and really stupid sounding voices you should have been around back then. The RPG world and the Modders of today have come a long way and to worry about bad voice acting is a waist of time as long as the MOD's are good and they get the ideas across then who really cares if they are not perfect voice actors its only a game and all about having fun so try to do that because I really like what I've seen so far and can't wait for the day its in my hands. :D

Even with 30 actors, that's still 30+ npc voices per actor. Not counting the fact that the well known actors will be restricted in the number of npcs they give voice to. You don't think that's going to be a bit... Samey'?

The option of on-screen text is mandatory. I can't imagine a voice-powered game being released without it. But no text-only option?

A valid point. But if it meant richer (un-dumbed) dialogue without having their voice characteristics forced on me, i'd actually prefer a pop-up box. That's just me...

Oblivion in paperback? Lone Wolf just don't cut it no more. CRPGs and books; Chalk and cheese. They can't be compared one to the other.

Better stories? Better than the dynamic story that is generated in my head as i play? Not likely. I love rpgs and i love books. But for different reasons. ES rpgs sacrifice quality and diversity of character for flexibility of story. Books are inflexible in story but have better presentation through richer dialogue and characterisation. (Well, a good book at least!) But what i'm saying is that there's no reason why ES rpgs can't have this same level of quality. If only they'd make better use of 5 fraggin' gigabytes!

I hate to be the one to break it to you, and i'm sorry for sounding cynical, but even 5Gb of spoken dialogue isn't gonna solve the generic speech syndrome. I cannot imagine the npcs being head and shoulders above those in Morrowind in terms of uniqueness of character. I'd love to be proven wrong, but common sense tells me they're gonna have to cut corners somewhere. 5Mb of speech per npc isn't a lot...

Thinking ahead isn't a newb trait. Nor is it dumb. The reason i brought the mod issue up in the first place was because of Bethesda's tendency to leave certain important elements of their world 'blank'. There are countless examples of player made mods that present ideas that make you think: "Wow, that should have been part of the original." Oblivion will be the same. But through no fault of Bethesda's. There's only so much one team can implement after all. And they have provided the means for players to incorporate their own ideas. But the whole voice thing is going to isolate the after market mods from the original. Although, as i ponted out, this is a minor issue for most. Still, it would be good if they provided some means of access to voice talent to promising modders...

I am a PnP virgin. But again, it's apples and oranges. As a pencil and paper player yourself, i'm sure you'd agree that it can't really be compared to crpgs.

Haha! Wrong you are. I'm gonna play it, love it and complain loudly. For that is how progress is made.

For 10 or so years now, i've been toying around with various ideas for the perfect rpg. Sometime since then i realised that the perfect rpg is a myth but that doesn't stop me from thinking and dreaming. Bethesda is the only company with a product that even comes close to my thoughts on the perfect rpg. "Go anywhere, do anything". That's where the future's at. The concept that they've been pioneering is so full of potential that i can't help but stick my two bits in. ;)

Grammar and misspelling? Or was this intended as a joke?
But yes, it is a little inconsistent. (Not to be harsh, just honest)
There's only so many times I can read the word "offical" without cringing.
I've some experience in english tutoring, so I hope you can understand.
:D

If this is true, then I am quite pleased that Bethesda is ensuring flexibility in this area. Bear in mind that I'm not complaining at all, merely enjoying being a part of the discussion. This is what we're here for after all, is it not? Spouting our minor gaming irritations, celebrating a game's virtues or otherwise.

Sure, I like it too. But if one is able to select between text/spoken dialogue in Oblivion then you won't necessarily have to deal with the window popping up with the same thing, or am I missing something here?
However, this isn't a revolutionary idea by any means. Even Arx Fatalis featured small clues and snippets of conversations whispered through various characters as you passed by in the city. Obviously it wasn't implemented on the scale as it will no doubt be with Oblivion, but the idea was there.
Arx also featured no dialogue boxes (unlike its great spiritual mentor Ultima Underworld) but instead opted for cut scenes and sub-titles. It was a beautifully immersive experience for me personally, but as a preference I would have liked more text and interactive dialogue options.

Well, I think gamers have a cash-given right to express their opinions. We do that here all the time, don't we? I'm sure Bethesda are reasonable enough to know how to sort through rational constructive criticism from the everyday rubbishy whinging nonsense that must appear in abundance on the ES forums. Logically however, if there is enough voicing of opinion on one particular aspect of the game, it will be heard.
So being forced to play something else isn't really an option if you're serious about your games and like to get involved in the discussion of them. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Quite frankly, this is an absurdly invalid preposition. How can a book replace the physical (mouse or keyboard driven) interaction that is done within a 3D cRPG experience? Whilst reading is generally a physically passive exercise, the act of gaming obviously is not. Furthermore, people tend to go to books and games for different reasons, not to necessarily replace one with the other. Case in point: I'll be reading "Chess is my Life" by Karpov tonight and all of a sudden burst out with longing for an immersive 3d dungeon to explore. Sorry but whilst my mind can imagine a chessboard ok, I really do struggle to mentally conjure the physical details of my Radeon 9200's creations.

That's not to say Roleplaying books are not an option of course! I grew up reading gamebooks, which a long with the C64, were essentially my introduction to roleplaying in the late 80s/early 90s.
I noticed you mentioned Lone Wolf series, Sever. You can actually play these online now, thanks to Joe Dever and the team here: http://www.projectaon.org.
I actually still treasure and ocassionally read books from my Fighting Fantasy collection - there's still half a dozen or so that I need for the entire set!
I must update my thread in books/movies sometime...

As I've already shown, this response is not really valid since the experience of your normal every day reading and the reading done whilst gaming in an interactive 3d world, is obviously different in scope.
And while I may yet get to play 20,000 of those games and read 40,000 of those books you mention in my lifetime, there is no reason why I can't be a part of the Oblivion experience. Its not an either/or, exclusive/inclusive issue for me and I'm sure Bethesda would feel the same.

Anyone with a love or passionate knowledge of the history of cRPGS will know how prominent a role the story can have in the experience of playing it. Presumptiously comparing Oblivion's stoyrline negatively to the classics of literature does not detract me from wanting to play it merely to enjoy that aspect. Not in the least. Whilst I don't expect Oblivion's dialogue and plot to be Shakespearian in proportion or quality, I do expect it to at least meet and possibly raise the bar from Morrowind's standards. Is that too much to ask? I'd like to think it isn't.

What's there to hate about it? That you had to actually stop and read, or even think? It amiably served its purpose of conveying dialogue options rather well, I thought. Being able to resize it to taste, was also a nice touch.
If anything we were spoilt by not having to TYPE each dialogue option into a box instead! :D (A la the early Ultimas)
But really, my imagination is rich enough to be able to imagine different inflections and idyosyncracies upon phrases and common NPC speech in my head, so that's no problem to me at all.

Are we following the same discussion? I think this thread has dipped into some bigger issues than what's merely on the surface. (I.E What aspects of voice/text creates immersion?) It is also a bit presumptious and dare I say it, 'dumb' to equate any opinion on these matters to someone being new to the cRPG genre.

Admittedly I've only been into roleplaying since the late 80's, but I still meet regularly with a group of mates to play Pen and Paper AD&D. Ad libbing dialogue is truly an artform to behold, but we never care if someone struggles to stay in character or mumbles some incoherent lines. These get togethers are about fun, catching up over a few brews, humour, a good interactive story told with some lively debate thrown in. Its human, free spirited 'otherworldly' fun. There are other possibly deeper themes at play, but I won't go into them right now. [img]smile.gif[/img]

In the world of cRPGs however - there is an audience. This audience expects a little more shall we say, professionalism from its purchased product. Creating a cRPG as a commercial digital artform logically will have standards it must meet for it to be deemed succesful by its creators and also by its audience. To not be concerned with these issues even on a small scale would seem somehow negligent and even ignorant to me.

What I am trying to say is, the expectations and hopes expressed in this thread are somewhat of a by-product of our consumerism and love of the cRPG experience as a whole. It is thus only natural that discussions of this kind take place and so generally I don't find the Pen and Paper analogy that useful.

A certain date in November is fast approaching I must say! I'm sure this forum will start going bezerk with traffic any time soon. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-23-2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

The point I guess I'm trying to make is, no mater what kind
of RPG game that anybody makes there will be people that like
to complain that it's just not enough, that it is just not the way
the way they want it. Then before relese to complain about something
in game before it's been played or even hit the shelf is lame IMHO!

AS someone above said we are all entitled to our view and opinion and
mine is; I like to give things a chance before I bitch about it because
I never want to turn into my wife.

I have been privledged to see this game or at least parts of
the game that most of the world hasen't and have been asked
not to say more than I have or than what follows.

I am aloud to say this>
Oblivion is very much like Morrowind with better graphics more
voice acting, smarter AI and a better story or should I say a
new story many years in the future from when Morrowind took place.
It's not the game that will stop the world from spinning. It is
a much improved PC game with alot of new features that make the
game run much smoother than Morrowind and there are no two PC that
look exactaly alike. The faces are real cool and if you work with
the Face maker you can make your PC look like anybody you know
including yourself, though not exactally but close. I noticed that some
of the guards look like the people at Bethesda softworks and
others look like actors M/F around the world from Movies and TV.
It is an open end game that seems to not have those loading
screen pauses and makes it flow much better.
The only time I saw a loading screen pause was when
you transport from one place to another and when you go through portals.
The game graphics reminds me a little of Ark Fatalis meets Morrowind
meets Far Cry and I liked the magic effects more than those from Morrowind.
I still haven't seen the horses yet or at least no one ridding.
The part I saw was way into the middle of the game so I don't
know how the face maker workes or what happens when you meet
the king other than the little movie from the New York showing,
that was released early.
For all of you that loved Morrowind
you will be very very happy with the improvements made to their
Graphics engine and the other new content.
I REALLY WISH they would finally put out the offical OS requirements.

[ 10-23-2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: TheCrimsomBlade ]

You know, I've never heard player spoken dialog?

But, that would be crazy, right?

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Normally I would be in full approval of spoken dialogue as it adds a sense of depth and uniqueness to NPCs, but when dealing with games as huge as the Elder Scrolls series, it is just impractical.

The massive amounts of NPCs will surely sound boring and repetive, no matter the quality, variety, or number of voice actors, simply because you are bound to find numerous NPCs that sound the same and say the same thing.

But in all honest after playing for endless hours straight I think most of us here will probably begin to just ignore most of the stuff that we hear over and over.

100% spoken dialogue in Oblivion? Nay (but not all together a bad thing).

It apears you have read nothing about Oblivion and I advise you do. 1000 lines of Dialog doesn't sound like hearing things over and over.
How did you come up with massive amounts of NPC sound boring and repetive you really need to find out more about the game its only a 50 hour main story and you sure don't spend all day talking unless your a real nut.
From what you said you have never played any of the Elder Scrolls to any extent and never spent any time at the offical forums.
Anyone that will play any RPG and wish to follow the story won't ignore most of the stuff we hear unless you just stand in one place talking to the same NPC for endless hours straight.
Oh and most of us here are hard core RPG gamers and we are less that 1/10 of 1% of the Elder Scrolls followers so go make these statements at the main forums and see where you stand after making thse statements.
Oh and welcome to the Forum Mr negitive first post.

I'm quite fond of typing, as it rewards questions and answers off the beaten path. That being said, for a game the size of Oblivion, it's probably not a good idea.

It apears you have read nothing about Oblivion and I advise you do. 1000 lines of Dialog doesn't sound like hearing things over and over.
How did you come up with massive amounts of NPC sound boring and repetive you really need to find out more about the game its only a 50 hour main story and you sure don't spend all day talking unless your a real nut.
From what you said you have never played any of the Elder Scrolls to any extent and never spent any time at the offical forums.
Anyone that will play any RPG and wish to follow the story won't ignore most of the stuff we hear unless you just stand in one place talking to the same NPC for endless hours straight.
Oh and most of us here are hard core RPG gamers and we are less that 1/10 of 1% of the Elder Scrolls followers so go make these statements at the main forums and see where you stand after making thse statements.
Oh and welcome to the Forum Mr negitive first post. </font>[/QUOTE]That said, in Morrowind there was alot of repetetive voice acting and voice actors. One guy in particular (he did the bloke you first talked to on the ship) his voice was used everywhere and it was highly noticeable. I could have sworn I also heard him in an Oblivion clip too [img]redface.gif[/img] .

I agree with The Sexiness. 100% voice acting in RPG's usually leads to 2 things
A) Poor voices (Evil Island, etc)
B) Repetition, repitition, etc.

Yep. That's me. Though i'm perfectly happy to withhold comment on all other games.

If i wasn't sure that this one aspect would fail to impress me, i wouldn't have started the thread.

Take a(nother) look around your familiar haunts of cyberspace. Amongst other things, you'll find people expressing concern about aspects of their eagerly (and anxiously) anticipated games. If bitchin's what i'm doing, then i'm sorry to have introduced this "official" trait to IW. Your humble opinions almost make you sound like a newb.

1,000,000 lines of unique dialogue! Now i am getting excited! It would appear that i've been worrying about nothing...

*sarcasm alert*

*shudders*

Yep. You got it. ;)

Deus Ex had it, and kicked ass. Then again, Deus Ex wasn't 1/4 the size of Morrowind...

Ya. Someone posted that link in GD a couple of months ago. Was it you?

I tried to get into them but it's just not the same as when i was young.

[edit: bracket fix]

[ 10-28-2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Sever ]

Deus Ex or Deus Ex 2?

One. I don't acknowledge the creation of the second. Second what? Also, Sever, that was me.

[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] A bit disappointed by the second eh? I wouldn't know. I played less than 30 seconds of the demo.

Dues Ex's player voice was good i suppose. But i nearly mentioned DE earlier in the thread as an example of the worst voice accents i've heard in a game. The French, Aussie, Cantonese and South African (i think, the bartender in HK) accents were terrible. I think half the reason i don't mind dunmer accents in MW is because i've nothing to compare it to.

A player voice works in games like DE because, at the end of the day, you can be a genetically modified secret agent in a black trenchcoat or you can be a genetically modified secret agent in a black trenchcoat.

Server these are almost the exact same arguments made in the 1920's when the movies went from slient non sound music backed Poster Board printed dialogue to what at that time was called Talkies. These are better known now as having voice actors and syncronized voice sound tracks.
This is in a way what Bethesda is trying to create. Except using totally self contained artifical intelligence in a video game where the NPC's in game are self contained and all live out their lives day to day and speak in conversation to each other.
If you feel this type game play is to repetive for you and too boring then that is your right and nobody is going to twist your arm to make you play Oblivion. I suggest you find one of the other RPG's comming out that all use the same old way to portray the game and fight the battles. From what I've read on the Oblivion Offical wed site 99.999999% of all that frequent those forums since 1994 as well as myself are leaping for joy to have the Elder Scrolls come more to life with each new chapter over the past 12 years. In fact I hope that some day that they figure out a way to make the game go on forever writing its own story and adventures in which you bring your character in as the hero or as a villan to play out the game with the characters all speaking on their own each with individual generaterd artifical intelegence not needing pre generater dialogue that gets repeated by more than one for the simple fact that some people may miss one NPC and not get the message that's required to complete a mission and need to get it from another in that area.

I may have broken the record on Ironworks for the longest run on sentence with this last statement.

[ 10-30-2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: TheCrimsomBlade ]

I just finished playing Call of Duty 2 the single player game part anyway. and on the second DVD of the collectors Ediition they said they had 20,000 (twenty Thousand) lines of Dialog and it only took up 2.8GB of the DVD for the whole game including the 20,000 lines of dialog. The multiplayer portion of the game is the same as the single player except that you get the option to play the german army or any one of the Axis armys on line with the rest of the world that own the game for free.
Now if Oblivilon has almost 3GB of just spoken dialogue I dont believe I'll be hearing the same line repeated very often nor will I find it to be the least bit boreing!!!

You can be certain that lines will be re-used as will voice actors. It is not economical to do otherwise. There is however a happy medium, and it is what I think people are hoping for with Oblivion, where we don't hear the same obvious actors repeatedly thus creating the illusion that each encounter is unique. I for one, would be happy with that.

Thats exactly why they grey things out after you have heard them. So you don't have to here the same information over and over and over... ect.

Lol! [img]smile.gif[/img] I think you're right about that last bit.

I understand that the overwhelming majority of posters on the official forums want 100% voice acting. But not everyone who disagrees with the majority over there can be bothered putting up with the response par voidus intellectus you get from all the fraggin' kids when you voice your concerns. Are you sure it's 99.9% on the spoken dialogue issue? This particular thread in IW tends to contest that notion. IWers, at least, seem to understand the associated costs of 100% spoken dialogue.

Where did this 1000 lines number originate from? (A link would be super.) I can only assume that this number refers to each npc having 1000 lines of dialogue, yes? Or else you wouldn't get excited about it considering that there are over 1000 npcs in Oblivion bringing the total average of lines per npc to 1. Enlighten me, please.

While we're doing math, here's another one: 50 hours of dialogue according to Todd. Sounds impressive. But then factor in that 1000+ npc number and you end up with an average of less than 3 minutes per npc. I'm not kidding myself into thinking that Beth aint gonna cut corners on the uniqueness of the "unique" npcs so i'll assume that some of the lines are shared and some of the npcs are generic. I'm a cynic, i know. But what do these figures tell you?

More on this after the weekend...

Right now I don't know whether 100% spoken dialogue is going to turn out as a great move or a bad move. It'll either work or it won't, depending on just how much variety there is. And although I hate to be cynical... I'm sure it'll sound great to the players that complete the main quest and move on, but to 'hardcore' gamers, I can't see how it won't become equally as aggravating as the repetitive text in Morrowind.

Given the amount of support the idea is getting, it can't possibly be a bad move. There are going to be those that will hate it (me), but there are plenty of fans who are easier pleased and don't quite enjoy roleplaying the social elements of the game - something i enjoyed in Morrowind, but also something that i felt there was great potential for improvement in Oblivion. It doesn't look like that potential is going to be realised in the way that i had hoped. Everything that an npc has to say throughout the game can be said in an average of 2 minutes (apparently, there's now 1500+ npcs. There's a thread on the official forum with an analysis that is quite interesting and, i dare say, intelligent. http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...owtopic=185906 But still they stand and clap...)

It will work but it won't be anything astoundingly new. It will be...sufficient. Enough to add life and believability to NPC's, improving on ES3 whilst not hogging the whole budget for this game. I have to agree with Severs calculations, you won't see more than 1 or 2 lines for 'generic' NPC's. This is what I expected personally. Anyone who's expecting fully unique and immersive conversations done in full surround-sound dialogue with every NPC that they happen by needs to stop dreaming. This isn't an audio-only game.

To recap:
That's what I'm worried about.

And when I say a bad move, Sever, I mean a bad move for me personally as opposed to for Bethesda! ;)