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I am all for a free form, open-ended game which allows a player to take any path they wish and would like to congratulate the games makers for attempting to branch out in this direction. The one problem i have is that this game plays as a glorified point-and-click. All I need to do to fight/talk/complete a quest is point-and-click. I run across a monster who needs killing, I point-and-click until they die. I need to talk to a npc to further my quest, I point-and-click while they talk at me. I need to persuade a someone to give me a book, I point-and-click, reload, point-and-click, save, point-and-click........ repeat until the number in the top right hand corner reaches a secret set level and voila quest completed. I need to care about my character, the story, npc's, the enemy even to enjoy any form of rpg. I do not care about this game at the moment, not one jot. Now obviously there must be something to this game or all you good, fine people would not be playing and enjoying it. Please tell me what there is, do I reach level 20 and suddenly the whole game becomes fun. Can I ever actually have a conversation with anyone, can I enjoy a battle instead of either winning easily or pouring fatigue potions down my neck until i win, will anyone actually be able to afford my best items which are for skills i have not majored/minored in (the most annoying aspect of the game, surely all skills should count towards levelling up and all increase at the same pace ie.ds). Help me see the light, show me the error of my ways. I really want to like this game but I do not. Over to you guys.
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Yea, I'm not quite sure what it is about the game either. I usually play a good hour before going to bed, but ever since the first couple days, I've lost that feeling for the game. When this game is reviewed as the most open-ended game of all time, I feel that is not entirely true. You ARE given a set path, and you can take alternative courses to boost your character. In the end, however, the ending is the same. Compared to most other RPG's (can't classify as CRPG, as yet there are many more on consoles), it falls short of the 'most open-ended'. I play this game for the sake of completing it, and afterwards I might find that I won't play it again for a while.
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I see your point in that you are playing this game to complete it but I play games to have fun, can anyone honestly say they are enjoying this game past the initial exitement of the non-linear sidequest beginning.The novelty kind of wore of.
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Wow you guys are missing the whole point of the game: EXPLORATION! They've built a huge world to explore and interact with. The series of quests that make up the main plot are a tiny fraction of Morrowind. The greatness of this game is the esthetic pleasure you get from immersing yourself in it, not a mad rush to some arbitrary end point. I pity the two of you. You are the type of guys who will rush through sex in 30 secs to get to climax then fall asleep never knowing the true enjoyment of the experience.
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Well, I like it! In fact I think it is one of the most detailed, realtime RPG's ever. I congratulate the programmers on a very tough task, very well done. The concept may be new to people that just need to be an extremely high level, killing everything, and ending the game, only to buy another useless $40+ title. I have been developing a game for 6 months now and now I must change my entire strategy, as far as the engine goes. Yes there could be improvements, that's why they give you the construction set, if you don't like something, change it. I Love It. I have just purchased the game about three days ago, and I haven't gotten anything done since then around the house, but I have been born into a new world as Ceren, a female Breton, seems to have some identity crisis right now, because I didn't ask any boards or cheat or anything else. I installed and started. I can't stop. It's just not possible now. I am drawn in, I am using some of my personality and qualities in my character, and then I play the role of the character, I think, hmmm.... Ceren what do I do now? And I am thinking you must have been playing long and hard, because I am just a 4th level character. And that was 3 days hard play. I dont use fortification potions until someone is dead, I use my mind, scout, prepare, gather, "borrow", and study, then I make several plans, I make escape routes, emergency exits, etc... It's quite hard work. Sure you point and click, but that remark is strange, since ALL PC GAMES are point and click. I am Ceren a Mage, born under the sign of the Mage, but I can't just click and zap a creature into oblivion, I must know my opponent, what if he's a mage? What if there are other dangers nearby? I tried to kill a rat with a dagger and almost died! I can hear you laughing from here, but my guildmaster told me to practice, so I did, and now I use my dagger and with a few flicks a rat is dead, but that's just not true of a cliffracer, or several other beasts. I have exlpored some of the towns and outer areas, and have found that things are constantly changing. My only thing is I want a house! I am homless, somtimes I must rest off the paths in the areas way outside of town. I also found, if you use the common sense and trade skills of the character, then brute force is not the answer to every problem. I tried brute force and died many times. But now I haven't died in a while. I have been very close. You just have to be in the game, you can't just play it. Sorry this was so wordy, but your posts inspired me.
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When I first got this game, all I thought was " cool, the greatest rpg ever has come into my hand ". I remember people who have played Elder Scrolls II talk so much about Morrowind gonna be an open ended game. which mean you can do whatever you like in the game. okay so I install it and decided to be a mass murderer, but wtf how come I get this " doom message " when I kill a certain someone. "this is not an open ended game" I kept thinking to myself.
So I kept replaying and replaying a new game, but somehow I couldn't help but wonder why have I created an office boy instead that do errands for people instead of doing things what I like. okay no problem and I keep on playing. the most disappointing thing to me in the game was the ending, since I don't want to spoil, I stop here. |
Hi there, everyone! I'm new here!
Don't mind the mess while I get adjusted to this, okay? Anyhow, I just bought Morrowinds for the XBox. Yeah, I know.. I'm going to get so much flack for having it on the XBox, but I didn't even know about it until I was buying the system. Anyway, when I bought it, I was excited. I had no idea what I was stepping into though. I've played EverQuest and this game in no way.. has any competition with that game. I was blown away by how rich the detail was, how realistic the gameplay was and just how immersed you can get with this person's life. If they ever take it broadscale, I want in. I'm just.. so amazed with the lives of these people and the overall exploration ethic, I love it. |
I'm not sure I understand your complaint. There is a basic story here. It's controled by Caius, the spy master. He will send you on an ordered set of quest to game compleation, I guess. But you have the option to strike out on your own to hunt, and peck at things. As a mater of fact you are instructed to do so. At the point of the game I'm at I haven't figured out who it is I'm suppose to combat to complete the game. It is differant than W8 or W&W. There you knew upfrount what the goal was.
If you don't like the game, package it up and sell it off to someone. Get something back on your investment. |
i love morrowind.
but not everyone does, as yall can see. it's too bad that you don't like it. what you should try to do is swap it out for NWN. i'm playing that, too and it may be more to your liking. if not, and you still have your receipt, by all means return it and get something else. wizardry 8 or dungeon siege are fun, good games. try them out! or even rtcw or mohaa or jedi knight. really really good games, too! [img]smile.gif[/img] V***V [img]graemlins/chaos.gif[/img] |
i think i kinda built myself up on all these expectations that i almost completely lost interest. i enjoy playing the game, but not with that rich role-play feeling. i'm not those type of guys either, Nydlari. of all the rpg's i have, i've probably played EACH through 3 or more times to get the full feedback, and certain ones have taken (most likely) months just to make sure my actions fit my character. perhaps i've passed the ordinary, and expect too much, but I will hang on to this game. and i'm glad your able to describe my personal life with that of how i choose to play this game..
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I think life is easier when everybody remembers that people have different tastes. I know its hard to get out of the self-centric view that everyone must think the same way you do. but the fact is, no matter how much you enjoy something (or dislike it for that matter) You can't expect everybody to feel the same way. And the people who disagree with you aren't any better or worse for the differing opinion. Not to mention the fact that the object of debate isn't any better or worse for any one of your opinions. If you like the game accept that, and play it. If you don't like the game accept that and don't play it. But don't try to force others to agree with you based on your own arbitrary likes and dislikes. Debating opinions is ALWAYS futile, and usually inflammatory
[ 06-23-2002, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: Rhuarch ] |
I love this game. It has everything you can possibly want in a game. I started playing this game the middle of May, probably when it first came out. I am nowhere near to being even halfway through it. I love the weather changes, dust storms, thunderstorms, sunny days, the starlit sky, etc.
This game will last several months and I am happy about that. I love exploring, adventuring, going off doing different quests, fighting, leveling up and even being distracted off onto another quest. What could you not like about this game? No, you can't finish it in a few hours or even a few days. I find myself complely involved in this game. I sit down and can play for hours and only get a couple quests done. The only complaint I have about this game is that it kind of stutters and hiccups, but I think it's my video card and not the game. |
Firstly, "Debate is always futile", I believe that is called having a closed mind. I wanted to encourage debate as much as possible with my post so that I could try and see what exactly appeals to some people so much and not to others. Please, debate is the heart of democracy and if you close your ears to the voice of others you close your mind.
Anything that anybody says here will not in any way provaracate me or cause friction. People have every right to say that I am a whatever-whatever and that I have entirely missed the point of the game however what I am trying to find out is what have I missed? I love long, involving games. My favourite pc games are Deus Ex, the BG series and Civ3. I like a challenge, I expect pc games to make me think and that is why I buy them rather than console games. In terms of ambition and scope I have nothing but admiration for Morrowind but I believe the mechanics of the game are flawed. Just like some of the other people who have posted I loved ESM for about a week but then I realised I was not using my brain. How can I develop empathy for my character when I can not interact with anyone else in the game world? How can I develop a personality when I can only use one word at a time? This game ruins all sense of immersion for me with it's annoying flaws. I get along very well with my local pub landlord, I have known him for twenty years since I was a young child but a pint of beer in his pub still costs the same as a pint of beer next door no matter how many times I tell him how nice his eyes are. Yes I can see the point of a small element of price differences according to attitude but a differential of 10x is, IMO, ridiculous. This is just one of the situations which grate on me and stop me from really getting into this game. Just one more example, I meet an orc who confesses a crime to me, a stranger, and asks me to take a note to his accomplice. I return to the nearest town to report this crime to the guard, nothing doing. No way of veering of the path of passing the note on to the accomplice and returning to receive my award, a diamond. Surely in a game with ambitions of frre-form play I should at least be able to report a crime to the guards. Please continue to give me your opinions as I really feel I may be persuaded to give it another go if you guys think it is worth it. |
Firstly, "Debate is always futile", I believe that is called having a closed mind. I wanted to encourage debate as much as possible with my post so that I could try and see what exactly appeals to some people so much and not to others. Please, debate is the heart of democracy and if you close your ears to the voice of others you close your mind.
Anything that anybody says here will not in any way provaracate me or cause friction. People have every right to say that I am a whatever-whatever and that I have entirely missed the point of the game however what I am trying to find out is what have I missed? I love long, involving games. My favourite pc games are Deus Ex, the BG series and Civ3. I like a challenge, I expect pc games to make me think and that is why I buy them rather than console games. In terms of ambition and scope I have nothing but admiration for Morrowind but I believe the mechanics of the game are flawed. Just like some of the other people who have posted I loved ESM for about a week but then I realised I was not using my brain. How can I develop empathy for my character when I can not interact with anyone else in the game world? How can I develop a personality when I can only use one word at a time? This game ruins all sense of immersion for me with it's annoying flaws. I get along very well with my local pub landlord, I have known him for twenty years since I was a young child but a pint of beer in his pub still costs the same as a pint of beer next door no matter how many times I tell him how nice his eyes are. Yes I can see the point of a small element of price differences according to attitude but a differential of 10x is, IMO, ridiculous. This is just one of the situations which grate on me and stop me from really getting into this game. Just one more example, I meet an orc who confesses a crime to me, a stranger, and asks me to take a note to his accomplice. I return to the nearest town to report this crime to the guard, nothing doing. No way of veering of the path of passing the note on to the accomplice and returning to receive my award, a diamond. Surely in a game with ambitions of frre-form play I should at least be able to report a crime to the guards. Please continue to give me your opinions as I really feel I may be persuaded to give it another go if you guys think it is worth it. |
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I think you missed the whole point of his statement about debate. He said debating OPINIONS is futile...NOT DEBATING ITSELF!
Nasty |
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this post is a debate? |
what else do you debate other than opinions?
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I like to debate whether or not man's sole purpose of existing is to have created cheez-it's. My brother thinks if that were true, then we would have already blinked out of existence. I believe that since our factories aren't totally self-sufficient and self-operating nobody would be around to continue making the cheez-it's for the supreme powers so there's still a need for us...at least until we create a factory that is totally self-sufficient.
Back to the main point of this post though... Aside from the beauty of this game; moving clouds, stars and moons, along with incredibly real sounding kick-@$$ thunderstorms(if you've got a subwoofer you're really one of us lucky ones-crank it up!!!) you have to have the patience to solve these quests in different ways. I don't think any one quest in this whole game can be solved only ONE WAY. I'm a knight so I avoid any stealing from the people I've met in the world and, until recently, I've avoided magical powers other than restoration which are the powers given to me by my supreme beings to help the people of this world of Tamriel. I work on everyone I meet(especially merchants;) with my personality to bring their disposition up to at least 90 so I can get the best information they have to give. I won't take any missions where I have to slaughter people unless proven that they are "bad people" such as the Commona Tong and I never steal from anyone, unless given their permision first;). Have you read any good books lately? Some of the stories in this game are absolutely incredible and there are many of them. If I ever get a house, I'm going to travel all over the world collecting all of the best stories I can find. I've already got them stacked in every Imperial Legion lobby across VVardenfell. That's one of the things that hooked me in The Elder Scrolls. I know, I know. If you wanted to read a book, you wouldn't have bought a game. *My nod to Princess Bride* Well, this game has a little of everything for almost everybody. Pirates, Giants, magic, Miracles, fencing, Sports(the arena), True love(just get some of those ladies up to 100 dispositon and stand around and listen to them cat-call you;), That's it's true secret. A little of everything. What you have to do is find out what it's got for you, we can't really help you with that. That's something you'll have to discover for yourself(or in yourself). If you find out that "that" is nothing, then this game was not made for you, and you shouldn't have any trouble finding a buyer for it. I have actually never "finished" any of these games. The fun in playing THE ELDER SCROLLS, DAGGERFALL, and MORROWIND comes not in playing a game through unto it's completion as stated previously, it comes in immersing yourself into the gameworld itself. Becoming your character. Role playing to the hilt(or haft if you will), not against other people like in those MMORPGs, but in your own imagination as well. It's just you and Tamriel. And to finish it would be somehow like death. So I just keep them going... Where do I want to go? Who do I want to be? Who do I have to talk to to complete this quest, or do I want to complete this quest or kill the person who gave it to me? You CAN be a Psychopath who runs around killing everyone(if the game gives you one of those quest-ruining messages mentioned earlier, just ignore it and continue) you meet, but I don't know why you'd really want to do that, you could have just bought the most recent Duke Nukem or some other brainless game like that if that's all you wanted to do. Are there things that bother me about this game, sure. How come most of the people in a city say the same things? Why can't I buy a house? How come no merchant can afford my treasures? Where's my horse and Cart like DAGGERFALL? Anyone still reading this has the constitution of a Buffalo, no life and nothing better to do...or I've bocome somehow more intersting than I've ever been before;) But hey, this post has grown too long and I'm missing out on too much playing time. I already missed out on a couple of hours earlier cause some punks came through the neighborhood egging everybodies' cars...including my truck:( Sorry if none of this helps those of you who were looking for a reason to keep playing, your only real help lies not on these pages, but in your own imagination... |
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As any game, it has it's flaws. And you can never please all the people all the time. However here's why I like the game...a lot.
I enjoy great graphics. If you have a high end system and video card, the game looks great. Everytime I play I become immersed in the world. I feels more like a real world than any other rpg I've played. I've always preferred the first person viewpoint also. It allows me to become drawn inward. As any RPG, the fun is exploring and finding that next great sword or piece of armor. And wondering what the next town or dungeon will have in store for you. What monster is next? I think all classic RPG's have the "go fetch this" in the game. And the game does have a story, it takes a while to unfold and it takes talking to certain NPC's to accelerate the story line. But you can also take a break and go exploring for a while if you want as well. I played for a few weeks before I had a clue as to what was going on and what this is all leading to. The story is now unfolding for me and continues to hold my interest. Something I consider an accomplishment since I'm a FPS lover. |
My gripe about this game is that since this game advertise itself as an open ended, it should really be an open ended game. there shouldn't be a " doomsday meassage " when you do something.
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And, in defense of why they did this: With daggerfall they got hit with the opposite complaint, that if you did something that made it impossible to finish the main quest quest, you had know idea until you were close to the end of the game. (I think they corrected this in an early patch, not sure, been too long ago.) But this message was just intended to correct that problem. In any other game, they would just make it impossible to kill someone needed for the main quest by making them absurdly strong, or just not allowing you to attack them. I think morrowind's solution is much better, you can choose to kill Car and not complete the main quest, but you know right away the consequence of your action. |
Perhaps it has become a chicken and egg situation in that if we blinked out of existence then there would be purpose in the existence of cheez-its. Mayhaps the Supreme Power has lead us to this perpetual state for their own glory and we are here only to eat cheez-its and thus making way for more cheez-its. There is a possibility that cheez-its are only an essay in the craft (blag) and we are fast approaching a nirvanic state in snack evolution and on that happy day we will all be seperated into sheep and goats, the cheez-its and non-cheez-its. Following this line of reasoning we live to eat, I eat therefore I am.This has given me much to ponder.
. . . Anyway thanks for the post, this was what I was looking for. I played the game without stealing and tried to explore but when i tried to admire everyone my skill was so low they all ended up hating me and so i had to constantly reload just to complete a quest. Whenever i did find a good piece of treasure most of the time it was not suited to my skills and so by using it i was retarding the level progression of my character and it was worth too much to sell to anyone. I can see that the total immersion in this game is the appeal but little flaws like the advancement system, lack of merchants with money to buy the best goods and lack of dialogue options meant that every time i started to get into character something got on my nerves and i lost that feeling. I think I will have to accept that I can not overlook this games flaws and good luck to all of you who love it. |
Of course you can't overlook game flaws, you just have to roll with them, take them with a pinch of salt. If you think it is easy (or even possible) to code a game like this which will have 'answers' to every little 'realistic' action that you want to do... well come back in about a decade or so.
sheesh... I think Morrowind is bloody fantastic in it's range and scope! Granted I'm not a Hardcore RPG Player or anything like that but this game is unlike anything i've played before, and its damn good fun. hey ronan, if you want more realism, go interact with real people. It's only meant to be a game, not a substitute for life. i.e. there should be some point to playing it (the main quest) and not just be a pointless walkabout. The gradual uncovering of the main quest plot is sweet (and i agree with whoever said they liked the books - they are a touch of class), and I'd say a game that allows you to continue playing even while one of the main 'necessary' characters is killed is about as open-ended as it's going to get for a while. ah well, no worries. just remember; play the game, live your life. 'nuff said |
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You can dive underwater for ages too. Unless you can breathe underwater you're going to get a doomsday message. You can choose to sit on your backside while being attacked. You'll get a doomsday message too. What are you expecting from a game attempting realism? No consequences? I think the game is fantastic. As was said, every PC game is point and click an manipulation of graphics. Civ3 and Baldurs Gate included. The dif with Morrowind is the artistic scenery and soundscape - sheer beauty - plus the freedoms within the game and regarding your own character. Having major and minor skills that count for level ups is brilliant. It hones a character down to greater uniqueness. Why complain about it? You can always customise a character class with the major and minors you want to have. You just can't have everything that's all. You have to choose what your specialisations are. Sort of like life really ;) |
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However, that's the aspect of my character I've focussed on. He has trouble in hard fights at the moment. Like I said, you can't have everything. It's a matter of negotiating the weaknesses, and playing to the strengths. Similarly, money is not an endless supply. The game uses the word BARTERING. They'll have more money if you buy and then sell. Besides, if no-one can afford your asking price, perhaps you should be lowering it. That is an option you know. It makes it more realistic than if the merchants just sat on huge amounts of cash. Life's not like that. |
Very well said Yorick. I totally agree with your statements.
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I agree with Yorick. I level up system for this game. It really makes you think about which Major and Minor skills are important for your character concept. It does not mean that you could decide later to punch up one of the misc skills and use it, it just means you do not advance as quickly. I think this really simulates real life as some people learn more quickly about certain subjects than others.
As for the speechcraft issue, when I started the game speechcraft was a minor skill and very rarely worked. As the game progressed I found trainers to help boost my speechcraft which in turn helped boost my personality. Now at level 11 I find I can at least use speechcraft successfully sometimes. There are still people that do not respond at all to my attempts but that is just like real life as well. I have really started to get into the game and find there is enough to do so when I get bored of doing one thing I can go do something else. For example, I have gotten bored with running around doing the errands for various different people so I am now going to do a bit of exploring in the world. Maybe hunt down a few slavers and free some slaves. Maybe do a little beast hunting. There are just so many options. |
On the subject of trading. At first I had the same issues with how am I going to sell this very expensive item when nobody has enough gold. Then I realized most medevial times transactions were barter based. I just needed to hold onto the item until I found a trader that had some things I needed. Then I can trade the item for some gold and those items as well. I now realize this system is an elegant way of limiting the amount of gold a character has so that you do not become super rich to quickly thus making the game to easy.
Kudos to the developers for finding this solution. Now if only I could find a bag of holding to store all my cool items .... |
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Morrowind is a game that you have to bury yourself in completely.
It needs a certain amount of dedication, perseverance and intelligence to get to the real essence of the game. This masterpiece of the gaming world is ground breaking and a testament to the bravery of the programmers responsible for it. I am not saying you lack intelligence Ronan, but it makes me wonder. The only word I can associate with you is MAMPHEE! |
Fine, by all means have specliazations by why make vital skills part of them? If I go to buy a new car the salesman doesn't add on 50% to the asking price just because he does not like the way I talk. There is no way that having merchants greatly change prices according to their attitude towards you is ralistic, a good gaming tool or fun. Here is 100 gold as a bribe now you are going to sell everything in your store to me at a greatly reduced price, buy all my goods at inflated prices and con yourself out of thousands of gold pieces. That kind of business acumen is what made DeLorean great.
The merchants do not have a whole heap of cash to stop characters from gaining to much money and power? Right, so that is why half the people on this forum run around stealing everything in sight without being caught and make their characters to rich and to powerful. If there is asystem in place to prevent such an anomaly why is it so easy to work around it? Why have a helmet worth 15000 gp available to anyone with a silver sword? Where is the balance? Here is an idea, do not put the thing in the game in the first place. |
Graphics are terrific, storms, lighting and sound are the best. the game itself STINKS!
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hmm...I see not everybody like this game. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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[ 07-13-2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ] |
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